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Beearewhyain Donating Member (291 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 01:58 PM
Original message
Need help from Christian DU'ers
My father, who is a fundie, has asked me to read a book called “Beyond Iraq” as he knows my opposition to the war and my political leanings. From the reviews I have read I know that I will hate this bit of propaganda but in the bargain I have made him agree to read a book of my choosing. While I could give him something that would blast the admin and present Neo-con thought, I believe a more strategic effort might be more productive. Which brings me to my point: I would like to find a book that references liberal principles with Christian ones. Nothing too heady as my father is not one for subtle implications but more of a direct interpretation of the bible and the teachings of the Christ. It is my hope that he may soften in his “God is on our side” view and wrestle with the inherent contradiction present in the fundamental Christianity world view.

Thanks in Advance!
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. 'The Sermon on the Mount'
Edited on Sun May-09-04 02:18 PM by madmax
by Emmett Fox.

On edit: not at amazon try this:
http://www.newvision-psychic.com/bookshelf/sermmount.html

"A reader from Massachusetts , February 24, 1998 It made Christianity finally make sense--brought me back
I could never relate to a literal interpretation of the Bible and original sin/fire and brimstone garbage. This is an explanation that makes the teachings in the Bible relavant to you and me- symbols are explained...i.e. Moses in the desert leading people to promised land symbolizes our own times spent in spiritual desert searching for full life. Also, the BEST explanation of the spiritual meaning behind the Lord's prayer. You must add this to your library!

Allison from USA , February 21, 1998 Timeless concepts for living
Fox presents the basic precepts of life in a clear concise manner. Taken from the teachings of Jesus it can be applied to any spiritual methodology.

Adam from Upstate New York, USA , January 9, 1998 Enlightenment
This wonderful little book, carefully read, will change your life. Emmet Fox summarizes the message of Jesus in a manner that is directly applicable to life, providing a succinct path to true joy and enlightenment. Definitely read it.

A reader , June 12, 1997 Small Jewel
Wonderfully concise metaphyiscal interpretation of Jesus's teaching, Sermon On The Mount.

Table of Contents:

Preface
THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT
1. What Did Jesus Teach?
2. The Beatitudes
3. As a Man Thinketh
4. Resist Not Evil
5. Treasure in Heaven
6. With What Measure Ye Mete
7. By Their Fruits
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. THAT is my FAVORITE!
Great recommendation for a
Christian who has been decieved
by the false church rising in America, btw.
BHN
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checks-n-balances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. Just in case the other book isn't possible or available...
Although I've only read the first one, I do trust the reputations of all the other authors. They all have enough understanding of RW/fundamentalist theology to be able to speak to people who buy into it. If possible, I'd recommend TWO books, the first and second, if he'll agree to it. I list them in order of which ones would probably be most effective to the less likely to be effective, and the quoted portions are from reviewers:

STRENGTH TO LOVE
by Martin Luther King, Jr.
"King's own vision of Christianity is bold and revolutionary. And this vision is firmly grounded in the person of Jesus, whom he describes as "the world's most dedicated nonconformist." While strongly Christian, King is nonetheless respectful of the truths found in other religious traditions...King's radicalism, his willingness to critique the failings of the Christian world, and his rejection of a rigidly fundamentalist style of Christianity have made him a target of ugly criticism from some more conservative Christians...Until you read this book you will not understand the spitirual dynamics of the civil rights movement. I guarantee that the chapter on tough minds/tender hearts will change anyone who reads it. This text MUST become required reading for everyone. Dr. King teaches that it truly takes strength to love. He also explains that God does not leave it all up to us to do but he will give us the strength to love if we submit to his will. He explains as it does in the Holy Bible that anyone can love and do good to those who do good to them but it truly takes strength to love your enemy. In the non-violent revolution Dr. King demonstrates how love(Truth) will always defeat hate(UnTruth). Truth crushed to the earth will always RISE."
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0800614410/qid=1084136132/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/103-1840886-5675020?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

MUSTARD SEED VS. McWORLD: Reinventing Life and Faith for the Future
by Tom Sine
"Sine's book would surely ruffle the feathers of the average church-going, capitalist-loving, suburban Christian. After all, this guy (Sine) has the audacity to claim that we, as Christians, are actually supposed to place the teachings of Jesus on a higher level than the priorities of an American culture based on consumerism. Sheesh!!! Who does he think he is? Sine's emphasis is on re-organizing our lives to get away from the perceived need to mold them in a way that feeds off of materialism, and to focus our efforts instead on the work of God's kingdom. Rather than having our priorities be: material things, family, God; Sine rightly states they should be: God, family, material necessities."
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0801090881/qid=1084136398/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-1840886-5675020?v=glance&s=books

THE SOUL OF POLITICS: A Practical and Prophetic Vision for Change
by Jim Wallis (see www.sojo.net)
"Wallis, a Washington, D.C.-based grassroots activist who is founding editor of Sojorners and an evangelical Christian preacher, writes in the tradition of Wendell Berry, Michael Lerner, Cornel West and others who have sought to reconnect politics to personal responsibility and the need to rebuild family and community...Wallis understands that being a Christian is not about intolerance to minorities, or unbridled capitalism. Wallis understands Jesus' ministry to the poor and warnings to those in power and with great wealth of the responsibilities they have to 'the least among us.'"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1565842049/qid=1084135745/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-1840886-5675020?v=glance&s=books

CEASE FIRE: Searching for Sanity in America's Culture Wars
by Tom Sine
"Tom has a very simple message- live as the Bible states, not as we want it to state...Cease Fire traces the developments of modernism and enlightenment humanism, showing how American Christianity has been coopted by evangelical dualism and materialism, creating a civil religion that is true idolatry. Of interest in today's world, many in the Religious Right end up pursuing a jihad that puts them much closer to Islamic theology than Christian. Tom has some intriguing tid-bits, like what it means to be truly pro-life- and the conservatives definitely don't have the fix on that. He shows how the development of dispensationalism and pre-millenialism is something rather new in American and Church history, and the dangers talk radio has to Christian theology and our way of life."
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0802843344/qid=1084136398/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/103-1840886-5675020?v=glance&s=books

THE UPSIDE-DOWN KINGDOM
by Donald B. Kraybill
"This book is a much needed wake-up call for evangelicals to stop ignoring radical call of Christ to meet the social needs of people just because the "Social Gospel" has historically been associated with "liberals". Through an insightful and culturally/historically/scripturally contextualized look at the synoptic gospels (and especially Luke)Kraybill shows that Jesus' message of hope for the poor and oppressed is more than merely spiritual. Too often Christians try to spiritualize away the gospel passages where Christ seems to be calling us to a radical way of handling our resources and power when dealing with those with less money or lower social position. Kraybill goes beyond just calling us to help people however; he shows us that concern for the poor, the oppressed and the alien is essential to true spirituality and the gospel. Working towards the realization of the Kingdom of God requires that we try to liberate people from both spiritual and social oppression. In fact the two are quite often the same thing."
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0836192362/ref=pd_sxp_elt_l1/103-1840886-5675020

You might be able to preview these first at your local library. And even if your dad only reads one, I think you'd like them all.

Good luck and let us hear what happens!












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Nevernose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. Magazine Subscription
The magazine for liberal Christians:
http://www.sojo.net/

(just for fun, click the article on the right-hand side of the page, entitled "Religious Democrats?", or this article about a Christian's views on pre-emptive war.)
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markomalley Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. Try this...
Get him to read "Pacem in Terris" by Pope Blessed John XXIII. (oh, that's right, the Pope is the antichrist...sorry, forgot)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1565414
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. The Center For Progressive Christianity has many book recommendations
Here are a few authors to consider:

Karen Armstrong
Marcus Borg
John Dominic Crossan
John Shelby Spong

http://www.tcpc.org/resources/amazon_search.htm
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. Oh, man
Beyond Iraq is one of those Lindsay/LaHaye knockoffs, mapping ancient "prophecy" to current events. If he's hankering for Armageddon, it'll probably take something stronger, like a comprehensive refutation of that crap, to dent his worldview.
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harrison Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. Well, I ain't preaching at you, but good luck with your
fundie father. The problem with fundamentalism (as I am sure you well know), is their reliance on the literal view of the Bible. In order to reach fundies, you have to soften them up by showing how ludicrous it is to hold that view.

That is easier said than done, since I believe that most Fundies are really very fearful people at heart.

In any case, I would recommend two books: Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism by Bishop John Shebly Spong and Rediscovering Jesus Again for the First Time by Marcus Borg.

Good luck.
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kysrsoze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Christ's own 11th Commandment:
Love each other. This was evidently said after he came back from crucifixion. The main lesson of Christianity is to love others and fundies have conveniently forgotten that.
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Beearewhyain Donating Member (291 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. Thanks Everyone!!!
Lots of good info to sort through and I appreciate the input. Plus a kick for anyone else who might have something to add.
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MissRegina Donating Member (178 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thanks for posting the question...
I come from a Christian family and some of these titles sound very interesting. I'm going to have to check a few out.
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TheWizardOfMudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. If I were you, I would change tactics
Give him a logical book with provable FACTS demonstrating that the war in Iraq is a joke in light of long established American foreign policy and International law. We do not operate our country on the Bible. Remember?

There is too much interpretation involved with "Christian principles." Otherwise, you just might end up going round and round again, getting nowhere.
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