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If they try only the enlisted what happens to morale?

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othermeans Donating Member (858 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 10:28 PM
Original message
If they try only the enlisted what happens to morale?
I was wondering what might happen to troop morale if they try only the enlisted for mistreating the prisoners?

Will the troops see it as the right way to deal with the problem?

Or will they see themselves as patsies for the higher ups?
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. i got 2 cents
that says they already do.
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BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. They'll find a few scapegoats up the command chain...
...just not too high up if you know what I mean.
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. The lower ranks always seem to get the shaft.
The officers usually get away with it. The enlisted are usually in a no-win situation. Definately the officers should be held responsible for their actions.


John
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beanball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. Scapegoats
only Lt's and Cpts need apply,Generals are not accepted.Thats the way it has all ways been,the lower ranks must fall on the sword so the generals can run for president.WAKE UP AMERICA there is something rotten in our land.
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No2W2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. If only enlisted personel get nailed,

We will probably see a return to "fragging".

Yep, the Vietnam experiance just keeps getting closer & closer
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. Too late for morale. This is 1 reason the Enlisted are speaking up
Edited on Sun May-09-04 11:01 PM by Tinoire
and spilling their guts. I posted something today about soldiers anonymously talking to the media even though they have been "forbidden" to.

They know the game and I don't think they'll stand for it.

====

Soldiers' warnings ignored

Failures: The blame for what happened at Abu Ghraib goes far beyond the military police, intelligence soldiers say.

By Todd Richissin
Sun Foreign Staff
Originally published May 9, 2004

WIESBADEN, Germany - The two military intelligence soldiers, assigned interrogation duties at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, were young, relatively new to the Army and had only one day of training on how to pry information from high-value prisoners.

<snip>

They said in interviews Friday and yesterday that the abuses were not caused by a handful of rogue soldiers poorly supervised and lacking morals but resulted from failures that went beyond the low-ranking military police charged with abuse.

The beatings, the two soldiers said, were meted out with the full knowledge of intelligence interrogators, who let military police know which prisoners were cooperating with them and which were not.

<snip>

"There was like a big disconnect at every level," said the other. "Guys were given jobs they had never done, contractors acting like they're in the movies. The whole operation was like a chicken with its head cut off."

The soldiers spoke on the condition that they not be identified because of concern that their military careers would be ruined, and because their unit was given a written directive not to speak to the press.

<snip>

"Everybody knew what was going on, but when we complained, we were ignored," said one of the soldiers. "We knew some were getting some blame, but what we were complaining about went way beyond them."

<snip>

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/iraq/bal-te.guard09may09,0,2180279.story?coll=bal-home-headlines
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othermeans Donating Member (858 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. That was a great article
Lot of information I hadn't read before.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. I book-marked that one
Thanks, there's been a lot of good stuff lately.

Welcome to DU :)
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revcarol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. Guess what. Just because those officers got "administrative punishment"
doesn't mean that criminal charges cannot be filed later under the UCMJ!!

So methinks we will see some of those "higher-ups" who got reprimands and other admonishment put into their record, ACTUALLY ON TRIAL. Especially if the enlisted people demand it.

No double jeopardy as the administrative punishments weren't a TRIAL.
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. Because of the way things are set up...
Officers are always responsible for the actions of those under them, BUT
Enlisted men are blamed for things they are ORDERED to do.

"That was a illegal order, you should not have obeyed it, you are going to Leavenworth. And the officer who gave the order, he's getting a verbal reprimand."
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othermeans Donating Member (858 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. That is the absolute truth
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Yep. That sums it up! n/t
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