What does the US Flag mean to you now?

My husband and I go to see the SF Giants and have always stood to pledge allegiance when the flag flies high....This last game I couldn't even stomach it...

I feel so sick about what that flag must be evoking when people see it...not much unlike the symbol of the swastika....I am so ashamed of what this administration has done to our country and its actions in the world family.

I always was so proud of our flag...flew it proudly...pledged allegiance to it and the constitution for which it stood...On Sept. 12th, 2001, it was flying proudly in front of my house daily.

That was then....For over a year now, starting with the illegal invasion of a sovereign country by the United States (something I never thought I'd see in my lifetime), I took that flag down...I have for the last year felt sick every time on the news when the names and faces of the young soldiers dieing in Iraq and the alternative news sources that tell me about the Iraqi civilians dieing. This war was entered into on lies and continues to be fought on lies - with our tax money and our childrens lives.

Now, with the news and info about the torture and abuse of prisoners and civilians in Iraq, I have a new flag to fly and represent me until my country comes back and the Bush Administration is gone. I did something I never thought I would do today - I "wrote" on the US Flag....Right now, as my personal statement of how I feel about this administration and the war, I have made a "symbolic" amendment on the once beloved American flag (something I never thought I would do in my lifetime)- it is the only way I can look at it right now without shame or feeling represented by it:

Right now, in front of my house fly two flags - in the flag pole mount is a beautiful rainbow flag from Italy with the words "PACE" on it - the italian word for PEACE - My father in law brought it back from a recent trip to Rome...Meanwhile my American flag is hanging downward below the other flag with the words boldly in black written on it across the stripes "PEACE - NOT WAR" and a Peace sign. Weighing the flag down so it doesn't blow in the wind and can be read is a plastic heart (got it off my 4 year olds balloons from a party that weigh helium balloons down) and wrote on it "My sad and heavy Heart".

This week I'm going to get one other flag to represent how I feel - The Amnesty International Black flag with their symbol representing against the abuse and torture of people. I am going to fly these three flags as long as these fascists that have taken over my country and spit on our constitution and for what it stands as well as international law.

You can't have it Bush, it belongs to the people.

It's our flag too, and if it starts representing something different to people, it's our job to bring it back to what it should be. It's our priveledge to fly it, and our responsibility to make sure it stands for something good. It's ours both ways.

Those that use our flag wrongly to try to impose their will and agendas are not true Americans and history will see them out. To hide behind the flag and proclaim how patriotic that they are have no idea of the responsibilities that comes with that. Waving a flag in front of your house or on your vehicle does not make you a patriot. We will ultimately be judged by our actions and not our words, and certainly not how fervently we wave the flag.

*

words without wisdom...

welcome to DU :hi: The Shadow

dp

* kudos to nostamj..http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1567172

Thanks for the Welcome!

So they have something else to wipe their asses with instead of our flag.

...But I still can't help feeling the way I am right now with such pain and hurt and what its meaning to me right now...

both the good and the bad...

I won't surrender it to the repigs...never.

It is what we do that has always counting to me.

Imagine that worldwide people think of these pictures when they see our flag...not freedom, not democracy...

That really gets me up tight. Maybe that is why the Brits do not fly the Union Jack at every 3 foot pole that is around. It became a flag that people around the world was not happy to see?

...so does that mean our flag will become a symbol for emperialism and torture?

I'm not a fan of nationalism, and the two go hand-in-hand.

I think there would be fewer wars if people didn't love their countries so much. Wouldn't it be better to think of ourselves as citizens of the world?

ending nationalism would end all conflict. The problem is this, as I see it:

First: the people who attacked our country really don't have a flag other than for Al Qaeda. They have no true allegiance to one state or another outside of hate for non-muslims. Nations have done terrible things in the past and will do terrible things in the future but you can't summarilly assume the entire world would break out in peace if all nations bacame on group.

Second: Nationalism can only be eliminated in a fully socialistic world where everyone is on equal footing. Human nature (both democrats and freepers have this propensity for self-interest) dictates that people will want to do something to make their individual life better. This shows two big problems. First a select group of people will want to have some authority to enforce basic laws that will have to be in existence. i.e. the right to live as opposed to being killed... These people will have authority and power and absolute power ALWAYS corrupts absolutely. Unless you have the perfect leader, even then he will die at some point and then you're in trouble.

Third: Even if you could set up some way that a leadership council would exist until full control and peace was established they would not want to turn it over.

I know that at this point in history our citizens have fears about our country and the world is a little ticked at as but here is the way I see it. Our nation has committed some outrageous autrocities but by no means on the scale of the things other countries have done (i.e. china regarding tibet and mongolia). Our nation in kind has done some wonderful things. How much food, money, and infrastructural aid does this country send every year to less fortunate countries (and not just the government, but wonderfully generous private groups and citizens). Our country is not the ideal government but I believe over the timeline of history we have done far more good than bad. Look at it as a whole not as a general 3 year presidential term by one shrub.

I want to be able to sit with her for awhile, stitch up the tears, patch the burn marks, re-work the frayed edges.......she is mine, and I love her.

She needs to be taken away from the abusive 'significant other' that is attempting to destroy her.

She needs to recognize dysfunctional relationships - she is far too trusting.

I want her to shine, like she did 150 years ago.


I miss her.

:(

have sullied our great flag and our nation, yet again.

Time to take her back!

some of my other ancestors were here loooooong before that. Is this their country any more or less because it isn't their flag?

I, too, have a dislike for nationalism and a dislike for flags.

I haven't pledged allegiance to this one for many years, and have seen no reason to start doing so any time soon.

I got thrown out of my Catholic school (St Charles, Abq, NM) the next year. So be it. I spent my life experiencing SW life...on many levels.

I came to the conclusion that I would not join the DAR, but would do all I could (BA Anth......at the time) to prove the true record of our country/history.

I gotta go to sleep now....hubby is lookin' like.........gotta go to bed. He is happy that I am signin' off!!

not the dread, of our forefathers.

Misrepresenational govt is a trial. We rise or fall by our response.

Bushco and his cronies don't represent the ideals behind the nation that the American flag represents.

I understand your anger against those so called patriotic types who love to fly the flag to justify what we're doing in Iraq, but understand it's no different than someone using their religious beliefs to justify murder or wrongdoing against other human beings.

When a Christian sees a group of "Christians" bomb an abortion factory should that person convert to another religion? If you were a Muslim should you have immediately converted to something else following 9/11?

I'm not "Nationalistic" in the sense that whatever is done in the country's name I obey and agree with, however I don't fall into the "World Citizen" crowd.

I prefer this country's Constitution, its Bill Of Rights, and its culture and way of life to that of nations such as Saudia Arabia or North Korea. I respect this country's TRUE ideals and principles. I consider myself loyal to the principles of these documents and the freedom they speak of, NOT to the orders of any government that wants to wage false wars or force my girlfriend to stay in the kitchen or in a burka.

Right now they are being hijacked and We The People are battling the ongoing fight to preserve this nation's true meaning.

I still proudly display my American flag as well as the Gadsden Flag (which is probably more appropriate during times like these) because I feel they represent what the true majority in this nation and what most people like us believe in: freedom.

I've heard that referenced and probably know it by sight...

"Don't Tread On Me" flag.

It's all yellow with the Rattlesnake.

Personally it's my favorite flag.

http://www.foundingfathers.info/stories/gadsden.html#history

Pretty much the gist of it can be found here. The fact that Ben Franklin was the main designer of it makes me love it that much more.

...the school that Ben founded...

Great link and history...now I like this flag too...My favorite is the description of one of the reasons the Rattlesnake was chosen...kind of describes me:

"She never begins an attack, nor, when once engaged, ever surrenders: She is therefore an emblem of magnanimity and true courage. ... she never wounds 'till she has generously given notice, even to her enemy, and cautioned him against the danger of treading on her."

Glad I turned another person onto that flag.

It's always been my favorite flag. I actually choose to carry it instead of the
stars and stripes during 4th of July rallies ect.

Well you take care now. Take it easy.

http://www.usflag.org/gadsden.html




dp

They can't have...


Also, when anyone asks here where I am from... I proudly say the USA...

Usually a little later in the conversation I drop in Bush is harami (i.e. a criminal in Arabic).

I have found it a pretty good icebreaker...

around the world! bush is a criminal..how many languages are there?

We should issue a handbook like this for travellers.
It could save your life.

...I think its showing a middle finger to Bush?

from Pakistan and Afghanistan :)

"harami" is the perfect word in Arabic because it has the double advantage of meaning both 'criminal' and 'thief'

People of this age still rally around flags.
Flags indicate a tribe and become associated with the general ideals , attitudes , beliefs and intentions of that tribe.
Our flag...My flag...is still the same one that I came to associate as I grew up with Benevolent Strength , Freedom , Compassion.

While we slept , some misguided folks took away
Our Flag...My Flag

If we do not awake....I fear it will be gone

What does one do when the tribe has had their flag stolen? Or that members of it do things against the values and beliefs of the tribe?

If we do not awake, there will be a lot more than our flag gone...

The founders of this tribe said ALL members shall have:
The RIGHT to vote for their leader.
The RIGHT to voice their opinion in public.
The RIGHT to peacefully assemble in protest of political policy.

There are more , devised by these wise men...but these 3 I believe are the most precious all to freedom.

Even if I'm the last one left standing....they will not be silenced in my heart.

four years ago.

For the past three years I have periodically written below my signature: "The US flag is not the corporate logo of Bush-Cheney, Inc."

I don't know what to do now, but I support what you are doing completely.

These unspeakable SOBs with their mercenaries and statements that the US is beyond all treaties and laws truly have spit on our Constitution -- and the Geneva Convention, and the United Nations. They've spit on our dead, our maimed, our young and idealistic soldiers. Their arrogance seems to know no bounds. Although I believe in individual responsibility for soldiers who commit acts of torture, the ones I hold most accountable are the policy-makers, the ones who sent our youngsters there and created a corrupt system with mercenaries in charge. Mercenaries who are apparently beyond both military and civil law, while the prisoners suffer and the soldiers are court-martialed -- a perfect representation of the Bush administration itself.

The Bushites believe in a merciless god -- and I hope that god will judge them accordingly.

Hekate

committed against a distracted, sedated and slumbering population.

and if you get a quickening in your heart and a tear in your eye when you see it waving, you are sucked into the disease of nationalism.

i love america, but we must look objectively at our nation. no one ever wants to look at our ugly foreign policies and the literally millons of people who have died under them.

patriotism is o.k., but nationalism leads to things like nazism.