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OK, I Just Read The Executive Summary of the Taguba Report.

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Plaid Adder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 07:58 PM
Original message
OK, I Just Read The Executive Summary of the Taguba Report.
All 72 pages of it.

Wow, where to begin.

First of all, this "a few bad apples" thing is, just on the evidence of the report, total bullshit. The worst instances of abuse may indeed have been perpetrated by a relatively small number of soldiers, but Taguba's argument throughout is that the entire 800th Brigade is rotten from top to bottom, and that the incidents of detainee abuse are just part of a much larger "systemic" problem that includes "detainee escapes and accountability lapses."

The first time I read "accountability lapses" I thought that meant lapses in personal accountability (which there certainly must have been). Oh my no. You have to get through the first section of the report--the one you're hearing all the quotes from, the one detailing the abuse--but in Part Two you find out that by "accountability lapse," they mean "failure to keep an accurate count of the prisoners."

That's right, folks. In addition to all the shit you've been reading about, *they weren't even sure half the time who they were holding.* Records of which prisoners were being held where were not kept up to date--which is a pity, since Abu Ghraib included a large population of what the British used to call "ordinary decent criminals" as well as prisoners who had been brought in on suspicion of committing "crimes against the coalition." So if they moved them around and didn't keep track, then they didn't know whether the prisoners who were getting interrogated were actually suspected of anti-coalition activity or not. Meanwhile, prisoner escapes were frequent and often went undocumented, and there were a significant number of "ghost detainees" who were brought in by "other government agencies," without any disclosure to the prison authorities of who they were or what they'd been picked up for. The fact that most of the prisoners were in civilian clothing (when they weren't being stripped naked and stacked in pyramids), and that there were a lot of civilian contractors *and* off-duty MPs wandering around in civilian clothing is cited as a contributing factor to the escapes and to confusion about exactly who was being held at any given time.

In addition, Karpinski complained that one of the reasons the facility was overcrowded--another thing that Taguba cites as a contributing factor to the abuses--is that a significant number of detainees who had been picked up on suspicion of "crimes against the coalition" but then determined to be uninvolved could not be released, even though Karpinski had recommended it, because the major-general who had the authority to do that refused to authorize it. So they were holding on to hundreds of detainees who had been brought in during some sweep of the area, been found to be not a threat to the coalition, and yet been kept in the prison anyway because some higher-up thought that was a good idea. Just to be on the safe side? To prevent them from talking about what had happeend to them in there? Who knows?

So, if anyone tries to argue that all this perversion is just a necessary part of the war on terror, do refer them to Part Two of the Taguba report, in which he establishes pretty clearly that there was no way for any of these MPs to really know whether the detainees they were setting the dogs on actually had any 'intelligence value' or not.

Another thing Taguba's report estbalishes clearly is that this latest investigation is the result of an ongoing pattern that was obvious as early as May 2003, when the first documented instances of prisoner abuse at Camp Bucca came to light--just at around the time that Bush was declaring the end of combat operations in Iraq. By November of 2003 there had been a major investigation of corrections operations in Iraq by Major General Ryder, which found many of the same problems and made many of the same recommendations that Taguba made. In addition, there were a number of smaller investigations following the prison riots and escapes that took place more or less constantly during the period Taguba investigated. For instance, there are documented escapes, riots, and/or shootings of prisoners in Abu Ghraib on November 5, November 7, November8, November 24, December 13, January 7, January 12, January 14, and January 26. Taguba concludes, based partly on Karpinski's own testimony, that there were probably *more* escapes that went undocumented. (So, not only do they not know who they're holding, they don't know how many, or which, of their detainees have escaped.) Although, according to Taguba, each of these investigations pointed to the same problems, nothing was done to correct them.

Why did things get this bad in the 800th Brigade? Well, Taguba certainly puts a lot of the blame on Karpinski, who he clearly holds in high contempt; but he also links the abuses to a report published by Miller--the guy who has now been put in charge of corrections in Iraq--that essentially recommends that policies based on interrogation practices at Guantanamo and in Afghanistan be used in Iraq. He also points out several times that in the absence of real training, the brigade appears to have relied heavily on lower-ranking soldiers who had worked in prisons in the U.S. Which really makes you wonder what the hell is going on at Guantanamo, and in Leavenworth too for that matter.

But another factor he identifies is the fact that the 800th brigade s one of the ones that had its deployment extended by a year without notice:

"...members of the 800th MP brigade believed they would be allowed to go home when all the detainees were released from the Camp Bucca Theater Internment Facility following the cessation of major ground combat on 1 May 2003. ...In late May early June 2003 the 800th MP Brigade was given a new mission to manage the Iraqi penal system and several detention centers. This new mission meant Soldiers would not redeploy to CONUS when anticipated. Morale suffered, and over the next few months there did not appear to have been any attempt by the Command to mitigate this morale problem."

So, part of the problem, at least according to Taguba, is that the soliders really thought that once Dubya put on his flight suit and paraded under that banner, that meant that their mission really *was* accomplished. I guess nobody higher up in the chain took them aside to apologize for this error, and explain that their commander in chief didn't really *mean* to yank their chains, he just needed some footage for his re-election campaign.

THere's more...so much more. But most priceless, perhaps, is Taguba's comment on his interview with Karpinski:

"What I found particularly disturbing in her testimony was her complete unwillingness to either understand or accept that many of the problems inherent in the 800th MP brigade were caused or exacerbated by poor leadership and the refusal of her command to both establish and enforce basic standards and principles among its soldiers."

Jeez. Why should he expect Karpinski to take responsibility for her own fuck-ups? Her commander in chief never has!

There'll be more, probably, in the column on Wednesday. For now, all I can say is:

* It is perfectly fucking clear that what happened at Abu Ghraib is the result of a more or less complete breakdown of responsibility at all levels, and is not just the result of five or six particularly demented individuals getting their rocks off.

* It is also perfectly fucking clear that the abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib was authorized and encouraged both by individual civilian contractors and by Miller's recommendations about involving the MPs in "enabling" investigations--and that this kind of "enabling" was happening at Guantanamo more or less routinely before these practices were imported to Abu Ghraib.

* It is equally fucking clear that these abuses have been going on more or less since we started detaining prisoners in Iraq following the fall of Baghdad, and that several attempts at identifying and correcting major problems with the prison system we were 'running' went unheeded.

* If Rumsfeld is still claiming that he didn't know about the photographs until they emerged in the media, that's a crock. Taguba's report mentions the photographs several times and assures the reader that they are graphic and explicit and "sensitive," which is why he has not included them in the report. Rumsfeld might not have *seen* them--since they weren't included--but if he read the executive summary he certainly knew they existed.

And now I think I need a bath,

The Plaid Adder
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hey Taguba's testimony is tomorrow
not sure the time, but it's going to be on all the cable.

Go Taguba!
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. 9:30 AM. And NPR will cover it so bring your Walkman to work...
I know I am...
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aldian159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. 9:30 AM Eastern time?
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Yep.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. We need to flood the Democratic members of the committee
with the relevent sections of part two and suggest questions!!!

PLAID ADDER, WE NEED QUOTES AND QUESTIONS TO SUGGEST TO THE COMMITTEE!!!!!
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
34. C-SPAN for sure - Must see TV
...Sadly, real Reality TV...
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks For The Summary Plaid Adder
eom
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. Sy Hersh (bless his heart) has been doing every talk show...
in the country today trying to get out just that message.
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Randers Donating Member (252 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. this evening, on CNN
Bill Schnieder said something like, "If it were to come out that the abuse/torture was not limited to 6 or 7 people, that it was systematic and the individuals were being asked to do this by their superiors, then people would expect Rumsfeld to resign". (now 2 to 1 think he should not).


So apparently, nobody at CNN has time to read this report, or the one by the Red Cross.... (but of course, those are not the talking points they were told to say by the White House).

I wish the Move-On people who followed (on CNN) would have held their feet to the fire. They didn't want to offend, it seemed to me, even when the matter of TV news came up.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. And CNN is doing it's level best to keep America in the dark...
They share the guilt.
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BabsSong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. The thing that sickens me
(and heard a general today allude to the fact that this mindset goes all the way up to advisors in the WH).......you can bet that from the get go the word was to abuse the shit out of anyone they dragged in (hell, they were there to bring them democracy--what a crock of shit)in order to find the 'stuff' to prop up the little Hitler sitting back at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. They needed desperately those WMDs. The wanted to parade Saddam around. It's was all about getting the simpleton re-elected. Just like "glorious" war was because "daddy had one and junior wanted one so he, too, could be a war president". All this shit, all this trouble, all these deaths, all the hatred for us around the world because of one self-absorbed little prick.
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. OMG
It is more than a smoking gun, and more like a cannon.
I never thought it would be that blatant. It is almost as if they thought hey could not be caught.
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. Thanks for the summaryPlaidder!
I saw Sy Hersh on Hardball a little while ago. He has confirmed everything you mentioned and then some.

He's absolutely disgusted.

and, surprise, so I Mathews......
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. Thank you for taking the time to read this report and give us a summary
Does Taguba get into the civilian contractors?
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Plaid Adder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Yes, there's a section
in which he names a couple contractors who he thinks should have their security clearances revoked for encouraging this. He mentions a "Mr. Steven Stephanowicz" who in addition to lying to the investigation team "clearly knew his instrutcions" to the MPs "equated to physical abuse." He also seems to be arguing that part of the reason that the civilian contractors were able to influence the guards to the extent that they were is that the MPs were not getting enough input from their *actual* superiors.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I guess we'll soon be finding out who those superiors were
and who is responsible for those contractors. This will go right up the ladder and then the cover up will begin like in the Iran/Contra.
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Dirty Hippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Here is the Red Cross report
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. Criminal Incompetence
That pretty much sums up every aspect of the Bush presidency.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. So, remind me....what were the crimes of Uday and Qusay?
from an opening paragraphy on a web site the legalities of killing them....

quote:

"By all accounts, Uday Hussein, the elder, was a sexual predator and murderer, while Qusay, as chief of Iraq’s notorious security apparatus, had even more blood on his hands. " unquote
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ithacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. Great summary!
thanks! and I'm looking forward to your next piece...

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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
18. which link did you find and use to read this?????
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Plaid Adder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
19. Link to Taguba report:
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
21. Taguba has this Administration's nuts in his hand....
He has the power. He can twist them in his hand or he can release his grip. It is up to him.
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thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. How so? They can reassign him to a shoebox in Antarctica.
Why would he possibly want to "squeeze the Administration's nuts" or whatever? He had a job to do, he did it.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
23. Wait til you read the entire rpt & find out about the MG they're protectin
Edited on Mon May-10-04 09:27 PM by Tinoire
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riverwalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. OMG
Tinoire, that Madson story is explosive....

"Knowledge that the U.S. may have been using Israeli interrogators could have severely fractured the Bush administration's tenuous "coalition of the willing' in Iraq."
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. I expect more to be coming soon.
There have been several references already in various documents about this. Will start looking into it later one...

====


INTERVIEW: RABBI ARTHUR HERTZBERG

Sharon and Bush `Will Fry in Hell'

Rabbi Hertzberg, former president of the American Jewish Congress, and former vice president of the World Jewish Congress, was interviewed by Marjorie Mazel Hecht on April 15, 2004. Her review of his newest book, The Fate of Zionism, is below.


<snip>

Hertzberg: I think that what happened in Washington yesterday is a disaster. Sharon is licking his chops. He's going home to Israel to parade his achievement; he scored a famous victory. Bush is licking his chops. He thinks he's added about 10% or so to the Jewish vote that he will get in November. And so, Florida is more secure, and he thinks that he will himself be re-elected.

Both of them will fry in hell for what they did yesterday. And I want you to quote me on "fry in hell," because what they have done is that they have permanently put the United States at war with the Arab world. They have left no negotiating room. The only tactic that Arabs have left is to send in more suicide bombers.

<snip>

EIR: Unfortunately, in the Bush Administration and elsewhere, there are a lot of people who are out of their heads.

Hertzberg: Absolutely, absolutely.

EIR: As you know, we've been putting pressure on the Bush Administration for getting rid of Cheney and his entourage.

Hertzberg: I'm part of that pressure from a different side. These people are essentially mindless bullies. It's not merely that they're bad for Arabs, or bad for America. They are also bad for Jews. They are involving us in a permanent war with the Arab world. They are making it much worse.


<snip>

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/interviews/2004/3116arthur_hertzberg.html
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #23
33. If the so-called "private contractors" are actually Israeli Intelligence
then that could become a very, very big story..."radioactive" to use the words of Rummy. If there is evidence that the Israeli Army loaned some intelligence personnel to the US military under the guise that they are independely hired private contractors, then it would mean that Israel is a secret member of the coalition of the willing. It would mean Israel is itself waging war in Iraq. That's a lot of "ifs", I know. But it would be a question we would at least need to ask, since there are so many unanswered ones at present.
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TeeYiYi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
24. All of the 'escapes' . . .
. . . caught my attention when I read it. I wonder how many of the alleged 'escapees' ever actually made it back home . . . alive? :eyes:

TYY
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
25. Hey Plaid Adder! Could this report have been illegally classified?
Rummy said he didn't know why it was classified. That you'd have to ask the person who classified it.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
28. Thank You Plaid !!!
Sigh...
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
30. Did they mention the temps
Edited on Mon May-10-04 10:04 PM by PaDUer
were 167degrees? I don't know HOW they were able to take that heat..

edit--I've read reports saying there's 12 prisons and jail in Iraq.
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-04 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
31. Full PDF of Taguba report available here. EVERYONE NEEDS
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
32. That's gangster shit.
Edited on Tue May-11-04 12:04 AM by Octafish
So, what's Rummy hiding? CIA ownership of a military prison? Who controls CIA? The White House. And the one controlling that is Sneering Dick Cheney.

Impeach them all. Try them ASAFP. Lock 'em up.

By my count, that's five strikes.

1.) Selection 2000.
2.) Secret ENRON Energy policy.
3.) 9-11 Foreknowledge Ignored.
4.) Illegal Iraq War.
5.) NAZI tactics and strategy.

EDIT: Typo.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
35. Thanks for the Summary and Editorial Plaidder!
I need to take a bath now too....ick....
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
36. kick
read in light of testimony today
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