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TheWizardOfMudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:27 AM
Original message
Congressman Paul Hits One Out Of The Park
Bush is running roughshod over the legislative branch, and few republicans have the fucking guts to stand up and hold up their end of the Constitutional bargain.

"Passing the Buck in Iraq
by Congressman Ron Paul (R-Texas)

The allegations of prisoner torture by our troops in Iraq are disturbing, and clearly drastic action must be taken to ensure such conduct stops immediately. But why are we condemning a small group of low-level reservists when we do not yet know the full story? As revolting as the pictures are, we cannot know with certainty what took place in Iraq’s prisons based on a few photographs. We do not and cannot know the full story at this point, yet we jump to condemn those who have not even had the benefit of a trial. We appear to be operating on the principle of guilty until proven innocent. It seems convenient and perhaps politically expedient to blame a small group of “bad apples” for what may well turn out to be something completely different – as the continuously widening investigation suggests.

Some of the soldiers in the photographs claim their superior officers and civilian contractors in charge of the interrogations forced them to pose for photos. We have heard that some soldiers put in charge of prisons in Iraq were woefully unprepared for the task at hand. We have heard they were thrown into a terribly confusing, stressful, and dangerous situation with little training and little understanding of the rules and responsibilities. What additional stresses and psychological pressures were applied by those in charge of interrogations? We don’t know. Does this excuse reprehensible behavior? Not in the slightest, but it does suggest we need to get all the facts before drawing conclusions. It is disturbing that little mention is made of the scores of civilian contractors operating in these prisons who may have been the instigators of abuse.

Our current presence in Iraq is nothing more than a nation-building exercise, despite the justifications given before the war. Nation building is an inherently dirty and difficult task, one that our military forces are not trained to perform. Endless occupation of a dangerous and resentful nation is not part of a soldier’s job description. We should condemn unequivocally any soldiers who are found guilty of torturing prisoners, but surely we must also condemn those who put those soldiers into such a rotten situation in the first place.

Members of Congress decry the fact that the administration did not inform us of these abuses and purposely kept Congress out of the information loop. Yet Congress made it clear to the administration from the very beginning that it wanted no responsibility for the war in Iraq. If Congress wanted to be kept in the loop it should have vigorously exercised its responsibilities. This means, first and foremost, that Congress should have voted on a declaration of war as required by the Constitution. Congress, after abandoning this responsibility in October 2002, now complains it is in the dark. Who is to say the legal ambiguity created by the congressional refusal to declare war may not have contributed to the mentality that prisoners need not be treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention? Until Congress takes up its constitutional responsibilities, complaints that the administration is not sufficiently forthcoming with information ring hollow.

Congress has the power – and the obligation – to keep itself better informed. Congress should hold hearings on the torture allegations, exercising its subpoena power if necessary. Demanding that the administration investigate the matter is simply another example of Congress passing the buck. That’s what got us into trouble in the first place."


http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst051004.htm
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. Wow! That is strong.
Is it possible? Is it just possible that are a few Republicans ready to stand up and say "This is not the American Way!"? And this guy is from Texas to boot. It's time to end the charade, you tried to go along and it's obviously a failure. I think it's save your own ass and to hell with the pResident time.
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Ron Paul has his pluses and minuses...
...he's definately a rare one among todays crop of Republicans. I subscribe to his newsletter. But at least unlike most of the Republicans, he actually tends to vote according to his beliefs. He's rarely met a spending bill he votes in favor of (he's for REALLY small government), he's spoken out strongly against the Patriot Act, the Homeland Security Dept, the Iraq War, unfunded mandates and all the pork Bush ladles to his cronies, and the neocon agenda.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. Paul has run for President as Libertarian
--IMM
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. Congress has the power
Congress has the power – and the obligation – to keep itself better informed. Congress should hold hearings on the torture allegations, exercising its subpoena power if necessary. Demanding that the administration investigate the matter is simply another example of Congress passing the buck. That’s what got us into trouble in the first place.

nice speech Ron -- but you overlook the fact that YOUR party controls the White House, the Senate and the House. and members of YOUR party prefer to just follow along behind the rPresident or hide in the bush*es like frightened bunnies

Yes, CONGRESS as an elective body did shirk responsibility to the smirk -- unforturnately the smirk shirks responsibility too

beyond the speeches and words -- what are your prepared to do? Remember - the bushies kill messengers
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Ron Paul is not part of the Republican Establishment
He is more Libertarian/Constitutionalist.

He was against the war, the Patriot Act, etc.

He is a politician of principles; I do not agree with him on many things, but he puts his money where his mouth is.

I think he is a conservative Russ Feingold.

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TheWizardOfMudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Heh heh
He voted against the war and against the $87 billion. He is anything but a republican "yes man." His philosophy is pure libertarian, which means he probably agrees with us democrats more than half of the time. In fact, he is Satan to the neocons.

Read: http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr071003.htm
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
3. Bush is now Toast.......

About frickin time IMO
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. This isn't new for Ron Paul...
...see his website, and technically the GOP isn't "his" party, he's more a Libertarian.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. like I said
is he going to do more than just give a speech?

words are cheap and often empty -- what's he prepared to do? he may be more "libertarian" but he's still a member of the republican party

is he willing to switch parties, declare himself a libertarian or an independent? is he willing to stand up with more than just words

this goes for ALL members of CONGRESS that are "speaking out"

if this issue is that heinous and horrible and it's that apparant that smirk shirks responsibility -- then how far are you prepared to go beyond making speeches

McCain has been critical of bush* -- yet he has stated many times that he supports bush*'s re-Selection campaign

sorry for the cynicism - but we've heard strong words before followed by retractions and no action
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legin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 04:02 AM
Response to Original message
8. Byrd - Ron Paul 2004
I could get excited about that ticket for sure.
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Rageneau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 05:28 AM
Response to Original message
10. The only politicians who stand up to Republicans are other Republicans
Last week on C-SPAN, a caller asked Greg Palast why Democrats don't stand up to Bush. Greg said it was because Democratic politicians are invertebrates. They have no spines.

Wish it weren't so true.
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leftyandproud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
11. Paul is a Libertarian...yet every DU'er HATES the LP..
so do the pukes oddly enough...I find it amazing really. The LP stands against everything the neo-cons believe in...They are anti-war...pro choice...They support the absolute seperation of church & state...are against prayer in school, against flag burning ammendments, against the draft, against the patriot act 1 & 2. They LOATHE Ashcroft & the fundies in Washington. They also support gay marriage and practically every civil liberty you can think of. We may have some differences when it comes to government control over the economy, but I think dems have far more in common with the Libertarians than the modern so-called "conservative" party in power. Paul couldn't win as a Libertarian so he ran as a pub in a pub district and got the seat. Anyone who heard his awesome anti-Bush/Neocon speech on the house floor a few months ago realizes that we share MUCH common ground with the Libertarians.
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TheWizardOfMudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. He also despises the drug war
He is a medical doctor, thinks the drug war should end, and thinks drug users should receive medical assistance rather than be incarcerated.
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JayS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. We do have a program now in Texas where small time drug...
...offenses are handled by a medical court and not a criminal one. An offense doesn't even go on your record so you are not screwed when trying to find a job. I heard Ron Paul talking about the program on a local talk show and he was certainly interesting.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. The Libertarian Party - do they back a minimum wage?
Child labor laws?

I like Ron Paul and much of the stuff he says, but the party advocates ending a lot of regulations which IMO are very very necessary.

I'm glad most of DU knows better than to fall for the naieve charm of the LP's better selling points.
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TheWizardOfMudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Agreed
There are many results that arise from libertarian principles with which I strongly disagree. Would a libertarian government feed the children of poor unemployed citizens? I doubt it. The problem with libertarians is that they so strictly apply their precepts as to achieve absurd results. Their idea of a deregulated economy would result in a free for all and, eventually, chaos.

I can't be a libertarian because, when I go to the grocery story to buy a chicken, I want some assurance that it does not contain salmonella! :)

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the_real_38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
16. Yeah, I don't think Paul will be putting up quite as big a fight...
.. when the next round of tax cuts for the rich come up. He's just trying to make himself look like a moderate, like Lindsey Graham. All Republicans should be held accountable for all the messes Bush has caused. And a few Democrats as well (listening, Senator Lieberman?)
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Victimerican Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. As far as the Republicans go...
Edited on Tue May-11-04 11:28 AM by Victimerican
Paul is one of the good ones. You can trust him to do what he says. It's a pity more politicians aren't like that..

And not all republicans are responsible for Bush's messes. Only the ones that supported them, and Paul has supported Bush less than 50% of the time, much less than Edwards' 59%, Lieberman's 55%, and Kerry's 51% (numbers taken from vote-smart.org, average of presidential support over the last 2 years) Not to knock the candidates, but not all Republicans are Bush.

Also, as a libertarian, I don't think Paul's seen a tax cut he didn't like :) (edit: that's him as a libertarian, not me)
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Hi Victimerican!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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TheWizardOfMudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. You're wrong about Paul
He's not trying to make himself look like a moderate. He sticks to his principles. He might vote for tax cuts, though, since he also introduced a bill to abolish the IRS.
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
17. Oooh - he used the T word
Torture!!! not whitewashing it as abuse or inappropriate treatment.

"Congress should hold hearings on the torture allegations, exercising its subpoena power if necessary."
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DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. I like Ron Paul too
He has the courage to speak the truth as he sees it.
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