Rush on Abu Ghraib

"It should be pointed out that the prisoners at Abu Ghraib are not Boy Scouts rounded up for jaywalking. These are bad guys who either blew up or shot a coalition member; or were caught assembling an explosive device; or were caught in a place where the makings of explosive devices were found; or were caught with a cache of weapons. See the pattern here?

"In short they were trying to kill me and others like me. And if they succeeded in doing that, they were going to come over here and try to kill you. Ugly thought? You bet. But that is the kind of prisoner being held in the terrorist section at Abu Ghraib."

That's exactly what I was asking everybody last week. Who are these guys? They're shooting at Americans. They have attempted to kill Americans. You've got to put this stuff in perspective. It has to be put in context.

That's Rush quoting a Bloggist called Rich Galen, who also claims to have been on the ground at Abu Ghraib prison.

Most of the Right's arguments on this issue are barely worth answering, but this one could stick. I mean if they were terrorists, than the furor over making terrorists do nasty things would largely dissappaite. Of course, confusing the issue is the fact that Arab and Terrorist might be synonyms in Rush's mind.

What's also striking, doing a quick look at MSNBC and the New York Times is how they aren't addressing this issue at all. Why were the people being held there? Apparently the figure 70% to 90% of the prisoners tortured were let go without being charged with a crime; i.e. they were innnocent. Anyway we need some hard data on this issue--i'm going to keep looking but thought I'd elevate the issue here.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

and are innocent

they are not killers, they are family members like you and me and my dad and brother

way to dehumanize the "enemy" Bush - you motherfucking WAR CRIMINAL!

I mean, an Arab in Iraq?! Obviously that's suspicious and they should be rounded up!

protecting rights has to do with protecting all rights!

Our guys are shooting at them in their country. Red Cross says 90% of theses guys are innocent

We can not accept that torture is Ok. And this is torture not abuse.

Please?

Red cross: Most Iraqi prisoners innocent
Abuse by U.S. troops widespread, routine, ICRC says; Bush praises Rumsfeld.

By Alexander G. Higgins
Associated Press

GENEVA Up to 90 percent of Iraqi detainees were arrested "by mistake,' according to coalition intelligence officers cited in a Red Cross report disclosed Monday. It also says U.S. officers mistreated inmates at the notorious Abu Ghraib prison by keeping them naked in dark, empty cells.
full article:
http://www.presstelegram.com/Stories/0,1413,204~21474~2139895,00.html

http://online.wsj.com/public/us

The Red Cross lodged complaints about abusive treatment of Iraqi prisoners over a year ago, well before U.S. officials acknowledged problems, according to a report by the organization. (Full Red Cross report) 11:34 a.m.
24 page report from International Red Cross published in Wall Street Journal Monday May 10. I don't have a subscription.
report can be downloaded here
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6170.htm


This is HUGE that they are publishing. The Red Cross does not usually release or publish its confidential reports. It seems Bush administration has been ignoring this for over two years. They have torture prisons all over the world. Not isolated. Not just Abu

http://www.amnestyusa.org also reports on their site that they have been giving reports to Bush administration for over for two years. You can take action on their site

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/R/RED_CROSS_PRISONER_ABUSE?SI...
The 24-page document, confirmed by the ICRC as authentic after it was published Monday by the Wall Street Journal, said the abuses were primarily during the interrogation stage by military intelligence.
The agency said arrests allegedly tended to follow a pattern.

<snip>

"Arresting authorities entered houses usually after dark, breaking down doors, waking up residents roughly, yelling orders, forcing family members into one room under military guard while searching the rest of the house and further breaking doors, cabinets and other property," the report said.

"Sometimes they arrested all adult males present in a house, including elderly, handicapped or sick people," it said. "Treatment often included pushing people around, insulting, taking aim with rifles, punching and kicking and striking with rifles."
<snip>

Pierre Kraehenbuehl, ICRC director of operations, said Friday the report had been given to U.S. officials in February, but it only summarized what the agency had been telling U.S. officials in detail between March and November 2003 "either in direct face-to-face conversations or in written interventions."
<snip>
Kraehenbuehl said the ICRC regretted the publication and said it would have preferred sticking to its policy of confidential discussions with coalition authorities because the United States had been making progress toward meeting its demands.

ICRC chief spokeswoman Antonella Notari declined to discuss the full report.
<snip>

this AM.

Report: Most Iraqi arrests were mistakes

As much as 90 percent of Iraqi detainees were arrested "by mistake".

I heard the chinless wonder Gillespie say basically the same thing on Wolf yesterday afternoon.

Funny Rush tries to say that the quotes on CNN etc. from him are
a. out of context
b. not important because he does not officially speak for the Republican party.

He then will go on one of his nonsensical rants about he is all knowing and the only truth, something like that.

I heard him yesterday saying all this.

Oh and he said (reference with what he said above) that HE is saying what W is thinking but can't say.

Please inform us lowly dittoheads (who have s**t for brains) about what the great and wonderful leader of the free world is really thinking. We know we can trust you, oh wise one. :puke:

The man has crossed his Rubicon, it's only a matter of time now (and not much, I expect) before he fades into complete irrelevance.

If you really, really try, you may be able to.

They've reinstalled one of Saddam's generals, maybe they are getting ready to reinstall Saddam. They're embracing Gadhaffi.

Since the WMD line had to be dropped, all focus was turned to Saddam's brutality and torture. Our high moral ground. Why would the right make such an effort to legitimize torture, thus legitimizing Saddam?

To defend our torture, is to defend Saddam's (read: all) torture.

Simple as that.

IT IS ADMITTED that we were not only doing this to legitimate, although sometimes mistaken, detainees, prisoners, etc.

WE ARE DOING THIS TO FAMILY MEMBERS, ADMITTED INNOCENTS, to 'soften up' the prisoners. we are arresting and torturing 12 year olds in front of their parents and brothers.

no one--- not rush, not rumsfeld, not wiener --- will attempt to defend this sort of action, at least not in public. if there is anything that will chill the bloodlust of the average american reich-winger, it will be this detail.

Many families who have addiction by way of drugs, alcohol or other have this abuse and torture as part of their daily lives. So it is normal for them.

And author philip Greven has written on how many of those same people are highly religious and the more religious the more abusive. This doesn't mean all religious people are abusers. But most abusers are very religious. Hence we have Rush. An addict. Who thinks this is normal.

i dont care one flying fuck about rush and his, or others, or your, 'issues'...

the point is, we need to highlight the fact that we are ADMITTEDLY detaining/humiliating/torturing innocent family members TO 'soften-up' the real detainees. we are torturing/humiliating 12 year olds in front of their parents/siblings.

if they choose, LET RUSH et al defend that practice...THEY WON'T. THEY CAN'T.

SCREAM THIS TO THE WORLD and our gov't will fall.