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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:15 PM
Original message
I want JUSTICE for Nick Berg
The men who beheaded Nick Berg should stand trial for war crimes. Anything less than severe punishment for those specific individuals will be an injustice. Killing surrogates will not suffice.
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thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. killing surrogates is what they do best. Fallujah 2: Electric Boogaloo
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Prezackly.
The freeper calls for one MOAB dropped for each American killed. Their brains are just as precise as the mother of all dumb bombs. See how well this strategy of a thousand eyes for an eye is working in Israel.
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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Perhaps we should simply carpet nuke the planet
Since our nation is already damned by our actions we might as well go all the way.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
34. Pssst.
I think that's their plan.
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the_real_38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. People are getting killed in atrocities everyday in Iraq...
... you gonna stand up for them, too?
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. I think you and many others are misreading Fishbine's post.
He said he wants these killers brought to justice--not surrogates. Not a thousand Arab eyes for an American eye.
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. Yes
I try.
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ithacan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. and don't forget Bush and company
They are the real war criminals here, the others are all small fry.

Severe punishment for all responsible for these atrocities, up to the very top.
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historian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. what about justice for innocent civilians killed?
Place bush, rumsfeld and cheney on trial as war criminals and ill agree with you. Its easy to condemm others when they commit atrocities as we do.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. I agree, plus the people behind the camera and in that room....
...but are all of the people of Iraq guilty too? Scapegoating must not be allowed here.
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outinforce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. Just As I Want Justice For The People Who Humiliated
Iraqis, I want justice for the people who brutally, torturously beheaded Berg.

I can't understand why anyone would not feel this way.
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phillybri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. I'm with you...
I'm worried that too many here ae just throwing up their and saying "BUSH'S FAULT!"

Of course Bush is responsible for this mess, but THESE SICK FUCKS BEHEADED A GUY!!!

DON'T LET THESE SICK FUCKERS OFF!!!
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Right
Justice should not be political.
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Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
33. I doubt that anyone on DU...
wants to let these killers off. But, I'm even angrier at Bushwad (I didn't think it was possible to be angrier!) for getting us into this big, crappy, unnecessary mess of a "war" in the first place. And after three years of watching BushCo in action, I'm completely cynical and suspicious of anything they're involved with.

This rush to put on our tinfoil hats is indicative of how throughly disgusted most of us are with Bushwad. What reason do we have to trust this administration? And the timing of the Berg video is just so convenient for Bush....
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Ummmm, "humiliated" is the wrong word, torture is the correct term..
the Iraqis were tortured and it will be best when those responsible for both reprehensible acts are brought to justice, ALL!
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. then put bush, cheney, rumsfeld, and wolfowitz on trial.
They're the perps.
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Imalittleteapot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. Me too. How about a new President?
Nick Berg would be alive had our great war leader not taken us into Iraq - uninvited I might add. I blame every death on Bush.
Tit for tat. Tit for tat. Tit for tat. It will never end as long as the Crawford Cowboy and his war mongering chickenhawks are in power.

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Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
35. Yes, yes, yes! What a mess! n/t
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
12. Something isn't right about this whole thing.
Why was he held and then released?

Why wasn't he allowed to leave Iraq?

Something is not right here.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. There's nothing right about this whole thing
Not one damn thing right.
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BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
14. Maybe we can get justice for Berg...
...after we get justice for the 10,000 Iraqi civilians that have been murdered in our illegal invasion?

What was civilian Berg doing in a war zone anyway?
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. I don't care
who comes first. Murder is murder and no murderer should go unpunished.
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Ardee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
40. murders go unpunished every day
and worse, here in the grand and glorious US of A innocents are imprisoned and murdered for crimes they did not commit. Whether these hooded men were Al Qaeda, fanatical Iraqi zealots or CIA operatives they will undoubtedly never be caught. Better we deal with the root causes of Berg's murder, the torture of prisoners and the slaughter of innocent Iraqis.....
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lovedems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
15. Yeah well, the chimp doesn't know about persuing justice.
OBL is still on the run, who is the anthrax terrorist? When OBL attacked our country, we attacked Iraq! My guess is we will attack Syria in the name of justice.
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loathesomeshrub Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
16. Bush is to blame. If the war effort in Afghanistan was the only one
we had to worry about, then the guy who beheaded Nick Berg would have probably been caught or killed a long time ago, as well as Bin Laden. And Bush may have been looking at certain re-election.


So maybe, as he definitely cannot be meant to be a two termer, the war in Iraq had to happen, just to make sure he lost in November!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
21. Justice?
Justice is long gone from this sad planet. Too many people equate justice to vengeance. Not sure which you mean.
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I'm pretty sure I'm not thinking vengence
I'm lamenting the senseless killing, maiming and wounding that goes unpunished.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Sad day
After all the torture pictures, the rapes, the unbelievable remarks from our own Senators, and now the Berg beheading; I'm just not much in the mood for more punishment. Seems everybody's been "punished" enough.
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Yeah
I know what you mean.
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beanball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
26. Justice
is suspose to be blind,how about some blind justice for the ten thousand civilians killed by american and our hired guns?.
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Agreed
One does not exclude the other.
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
28. well that is true
Edited on Tue May-11-04 05:18 PM by Marianne
but we need to know the entire story of his life in Iraq. We have not really been given that information.

and although he was beheaded, we must ask how they came to capture him and why he was detained by the American intelligence.

and we must ask if we had not tortured prisoners, forced an Iraqi old woman to get on all fours so that we can ride her like a horse or a donkey'

well, one needs to know the answers to this.


The answers given to us at today's hearings are lacking--a whitewash

I am sick of this jerk around. This whitewash, this joke being perpetrated by our so called representatives.

We are being jerked around and we will find more and more of our own people kidnapped and beheaded as long as we remain in that area, supporting the safety of Israel in the ME, and putting up sanctions against Syria and also threatening Iran and generally pissing off the people who live there who have NOT threatened US in any way

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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
29. Do you feel the same way about the prisoners at Abu Ghraib?
Have you ever, at any point, supported this war?
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Yes
They should see justice done too; and no, I never supported this war.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Then where are your threads demanding justice...
for their murders?
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Do a search
You have a star. My sentiments on this war and those who are responsible for the associated atrocities has been clear.

But I think you miss my point. I want justice, not some misdirected, reckless vengeance delivered to more innocents.
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
36. Anyone remember the statement from an Iraqi official before the war?
I think it was Aziz who said that the Iraqis would behead our soldiers and burn their bodies. There is no excuse for these despicable actions, and I don't buy the abuse argument, but the truth is that we were warned.

And knowing what could happen, we punched a whole in a hornet's nest. We got hornets.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
37. in times like this
I find it extremely hard to be liberal and believe in the value of life and the common goodness in my fellow man...I'm usually anti-DP, but I would have NO qualms giving those pieces of shit the same treatment given to Berg...Sadly, both Iraqis and Americans that had nothing to do with this will catch major hell in the future. I'll probably have a clearer and saner mind in the morning, but right now, I want blood. Seeing this gives me the impulse to kill something, a feeling I have not had since 9-11.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. LOL
Edited on Tue May-11-04 06:19 PM by Blue_Tires
me and grovelbot posted at the same time!! try to top that!!
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msmcghee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
41. Get angry, but remember . .
. . that this guy was not invited to Iraq. He was there to make money from their misfortune. He went over (twice) and must have been aware of the danger. Certainly he knew that thousands of Iraqi civilians had been killed during our war - and later, during our occupation. Thousands more were being held in prisons. And insurgents were taking prisoners and hostages I believe since the war started.

Now we learn that he had no contract and worked for no larger company as a subcontractor that might have provided him some level of armed security.

He drank the koolaid. He believed that the Iraqis would be thankful for our presence - at least enough not to kill him. He also gambled that things would get better, not worse. That the *Bush/Rumsfeld policy would eventually succeed.

He lost that bet - and a lot more. I think what happened was unfortunate but not surprising. I'm not happy that he was killed. The method is immaterial. It was done to send a message. Beheading wraps the message in a package that will have max impact. That's just good marketing by al Queda. I think Karl Rove has meet his equal in marketing 101. But he's just as dead as if he was shot or strangled.

I'm not happy when anyone is killed in a war. But I feel more sympathy for his family than for him.
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
42. Gotta get past "they hurt my teammate, so I want to hurt one of theirs"
Berg's agonizing, public death **is** a horrifying tragedy, but then this preemptive, immoral war is one big tragedy. Every day the U.S. spends in Iraq merely increases the probability that this sort of savage act will occur.

The individuals who killed Berg were masked -- their identity may never be known. What sort of killing will bring Berg back, or make his death any less tragic?

We cannot fall into the trap of making this a vendetta -- a blood feud. Look where that has gotten he Israelis and Palestinians, or the Catholics and Protestants in Belfast.

It's a loser's game, with absolutely no chance of anyone coming out a winner. Just lots of corpses.

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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-04 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
43. ttt one time
Edited on Tue May-11-04 08:15 PM by Blue_Tires
this was supposed to be a day of celebration (got accepted for a fellowship). The proudest day I've had in years, and yet, I'm far from a partying mood due to the the events of today
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