Sometimes I wonder about Al Franken

Everytime he says he was for the war because he believed Colin Powell I want to scream. And then today, a caller said something to the effect that he didn't believe the abuse in the prison was an isolated incident - all you had to do was look at the School of the Americas. I thought it was an interesting point. Al's response was something like "Ahhh, yeah" almost in a tone that made me wonder if he knew what the guy was talking about. He cut the caller off after that. Is it possible Al doesn't know about the School?

point of continuing the conversation. :shrug:

or he had to go to commercial, or the caller was off topic, or he was reading the email and wasn't listening

who knows?

... haven't heard of SOA or don't have a clue as to what they do or who's been trained there.

Al did not just cut the guy off. He let him explain his point and then Al respond. It is the same way he handles a majority of his calls.

As far as him being for the war, I can see his point. He did not think this or any administration would lie about such things. I have never shared this point concerning this administration, but I can see why people would like to think that our President would not lie us into a war. I mean that is the way it should be.

Al has come around on this issue. I think he has been very honest about his transformation. I do think at times he still gives this administration the benefit of the doubt, but I think that most of the time he has a very solid take on things.

'nuff said.

This was a freakin campaign issue Clark spoke about. Not only that, but it is obvious AG is part of a much larger pattern for prisoner abuse. If Franken is really this ignorant, he should forget running for senate. Jeez.

And to be dismissive of such a subject is even more creepy!

Not just one who plays one on the radio, a real honest to God liberall would shake shit out. Al is a moderate, he does his best, God bless him. :shrug:

effective outline of the democratic case against the right there has been and he's an excellent representative for our party, which is a major party, not a fringe party.

what ALOT of hard-left people don't understand is that proponents of any issue are more persuasive to people who DON'T already have there minds made up if they are not seen as rigid ideologues.

I will campaign for Kerry, I know he is better than the alternative.. I only ask, when will we get our collective shit together about this goddam war? I was a Dean supporter because I did not think we couldd have a viable candidate who voted for this war.. But heey, what the hell do I know?

I'm seeing a lot of "lock-step" stuff out here lately. Dare to question a left/liberal position or icon and the flames come out fast and furious. Dare if someone says Air America is having problems, yet alone why they are, and you're a heratic. Say something bad about Clark or Dean and you're a member of the DLC or not a "real Democrat" or attempt to "logic" what this regime is doing or those who support it and all of a sudden you're "collaborating" with the enemy.

There's a lot of frustration and anxiety here, and it's the stuff that costs candidates elections. Don't expect the Democratic party to be a 180 mirror of the Repugnicans, since it never has nor will be. Nor, expect radical change, either. But at least this is a party that grows and accepts it over time.

As a lifelong Democrat, I have seen my share of goods and bads. I've also seen people come and go...especially the idelogues. We had a lot of 'em around in the late 60's and early 70's. Some of those had the same passions as you did and found a voice in the Democratic party. Problem was when it came to putting words into action, many found out it was not that easy...they became Repugnicans (the ones you hear on hate radio saying "I used to be a Democrat).

We stand the best chance of winning the White House in a long time. We couldn't have a more corrupt and incompetent administration. People aren't gonna want to counteract a reactionary right-wing regime with one with a left agenda...that's where the elections are lost. Right now there are some minds waking up to the lies of this regime, by being so ready to flame and jump, that's no way to win the "hearts and minds" we need to at least start turning the political trend away from this right wing junta.

Peace.

for God's sake I am NOT a nadir, ok? I am a life long 3rd generation DEMOCRAT who HATES THIS WAR!!!!!!!!!!!
It is over, this war is lost----Iraqis hate us, want us out, logic dictates that we should then leave. Kerry should hit on a plan to get usout soon (now).

This war situation is very fluid right now. This regime's incompotence has gotten us to that point. Don't ask Kerry to set some agenda in stone at this point that he will have to defend from now til November...or used to attack him should events change.

Most people paid no attention to the speech he gave at Westminster College inwhich he addressed some of the first steps he'd take to bring in true international participation...a way we should exit. He has experienced diplomats like Richard Holbrooke and Dennis Ross working with him who have the vision and connections that could move in quickly to bring about the coalitions that will enable us to properly untangle this mess.

Forget about cut and run...short of a massive Iraqi insurgency, our military's in there through next January at the least and probably far longer...even if Kerry wins. Don't put that albatross around his neck at this point. Let see how things develop, and then let's see what he has to say at the Convention, when millions will be judging him on exactly what you're asking for. Stay tuned.

hold all my thoughts...... what I don't want is a canned policy speech, geee I speak my mind why can't Kerry?

You obviously didn't hear it or Holbrooke speak about it.

What do you want Kerry to do? Storm the Senate floor like Jimmy Stewart and thrash about about how we should hang all the bastards? Be real, please.

You're speaking your mind behind a keyboard in relative annonymity on an internet message board. Other than my response and a handful of others who might read through, what you say stays local. What Kerry says, or what he doesn't say, is magnified and echoed and distorted and manipulated. Do you want this to be the game we have to fight for the next 6 months?

Neither you nor I have the answer to the mess this regime has gotten us into. One major reason is we have no clue how deep the corruption goes. It's one thing to see the building on fire, it's another to have to rush in there and put it out.

I'd strongly suggest you read the transcript to Kerry's speech, he lays out our best, current way out of this mess.

Peace.

That's the lockstepping I see on this board.

I get what you are saying.

complicated issue. He was very similar to the right wingers have been doing now in taking advantage of some peoples inability to understand nuance and that the world is not black and white, in addition to ignorance about congressional procedure.

There was never a congressional vote that was "pro-" or "anti-" war. Most democrats who voted for the resolution in hopes of internationalizing the operation by getting a second UN resolution for which a congressional resolution in support of the US's comitment to enforce the previous UN resolutions and get inspectors in.

but man I thank God for Katherine Lanpher to keep him moving and watch the shows timing. I think she's a real asset.

I like the show, but it often seems that Katherine is the host, while Al seems like the perennial guest star. Makes me wonder if she took a sick day if he could handle the show on his own.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

Many people on our side were taken in by what Powell/Bush said.

Being for the war initially does not mean you are not a liberal.
Being for finishing the job now instead of letting Iraq sink further into civil war and terrorist paradise does not mean you are not a liberal.

Yeah, I know you haven't even implied that but some on DU have. As for Franken, remember this: He was a comedian/writer before he was a political commentator. He was a better comedian/writer. It doesn't surprise me that he appears uninformed sometimes.

Bringing up the SOA is not even a directly really related issue much less proof that the Abu Girab pics aren't isolated incidents. When people talk about it being an isolated incident in Iraq they are not saying that this is the only abuse going on any where in the world or the only bad thing US connected people have been involved in, (Franken has stated quite clearly that the US has done alot of bad things that we should own up to in our foriegn policy in the past) they are saying it's not systemic and widespread in Co-allition controlled Iraqi prisons.

As a matter of simple efficacy in debate, there are many proximate reasons to think the Abu Ghraib situation implicates the higher command. Bringing in the SOA is clearly an example of trying to lever in your hobby horse issue where it isn't needed and where it invokes all kinds of distracting, unnecessary and irrelevant side issues.

I hate it when liberals do this--it is such an elementary debating error and completely self-defeating. Was listening to The Connection on NPR t'other day. Program about the Sadrist uprisings and the Falujas situation. They actually gave this lefty caller the opportunity to debate a winger (who for once actually sounded fairly rational and persuadable) on the topic, and the lefty gets all out of breath and starts bringing in how Kerry is no better than Bush because they both belonged to Skull and Bones. Dear god. I wanted to scream. You've got, what, 45 seconds or so to work with, and you want to bring Skull and Bones into it? Made me ashamed to be on the same side as this guy.

Franken is a very smart boy. I don't agree with him about lots of things, but I suspect he was perfectly aware of what distracting little byway the caller wanted to sidetrack the discussion into and wisely cut him short before the caller made a fool of himself.

and mean-spirited for a liberal. I think he might have conservative tendencies...and is possibly a closet Republican.


Bush apology well received in the Mid-East:
http://sludgereport.blogspot.com/
update