Does the recent trend of long-time DU member exits actually weaken DU?

If you notice, there are familiar names now missing.

And, given that your poll says "No" is "winning", there will be lots more.

As I said in another post, that's fine.......just don't knock on my door asking me to work for the party.

Kanary

You and your annoying reality stuff; will it never end?

I just love this panicky crap; it so mirrors the true silliness of life.

Who the hell wants to WORK side by side with someone who bitches and complains incessantly? Life is tough enough without having your own fucking side tell you day in and day out what a goddamn fuckup you are...compared to what??? The opposition?

Thanks.

n/t

:hi:

but most just take a break and come back and some don't leave at all.

Since they changed the format of the board...it's almost impossible to navigate anymore though.

RC

ALWAYS weakens the strength of the whole.

I'm surprised you even need to ask this question.

on edit: I'm not really sure what/who specifics you refer to. I would also, as other posters have asked, appreciate some examples.

Haven't you noticed all the posts informing "leftists" that they aren't needed?

Many other examples........ It shouldn't be a surprise........

Kanary

and I'm here A LOT. Could you please provide some examples.

I'm NOT going to spend hours digging up all kinds of links for you, only to get either a dismissal or just plain ignored.

If it's something you care about, you can just watch posts, and take notice of how many who USED to post a lot simply are no longer here, or very seldom.

After all, announcing that you're leaving only gets the snotty "Don't let the door..........", etc. And if a person leaves quietly, it's ignored and "prove it".

If it matters, you can actually notice it. If not, you can vociferously bash me because I'm not playing the "links" game.

This is an issue that is affecting the party.... we can pay attention, or we can just continue to let the party be damaged by all the bashing.

Kanary

...eyes wide open, thank you.

If anyone is to new to remember him you probably would not get him anyway. The group that showed up during the primary has almost killed DU for good. I am sure I will be spending less time here eventually too.

For now it's a comfortable place to keep up on news. It used to be so much more. It used to be a place where people worked together to come to an objective truth. It is turning into a Jonestown for DLC party loyalists and some of us know better than to drink the koolaid.

It could be so much more.

All very sad, as is the current state of the Dem party.

Thanks for your words.

Kanary

He left while I was traveling and I thought of him as someone I missed.

*Don't miss "carlos" the Lieberman fan though....*

He sent me a PM a while back inviting me to a new web group he was hosting. I think it was yahoo or AOL and I could not get the crap software to work so I missed out. GlobalFreePress.com has a special hidden forum that I think he still visits. Maybe Bpilgrim can get you in touch with him.

He taught me to look at things in a kind, thoughtful, non reactionary way even though I can't live up to his standard very often.

Dear god, was it really as pompous as that?

Thus you have no reason to look for it?

Haven't you noticed all the posts informing "leftists" that they aren't needed?


You made that up. It is a product of your imagination. A fabrication. A false statement.


There are no such posts.

And have been for some time. Maybe you missed them but many others did not.

If such a post exists, 'informing "leftists" that they aren't needed' -- let's see it.


You can't show it because it doesn't exist.


Now there may be many posts directed at individuals proclaiming themselves to be 'true' leftists -- and informing them that they can take their inflated egos and fuck themselves because they aren't needed - but that is different from saying leftists aren't needed

Carlos who was banned was guilty of saying that often. That stament shows up in most Nader threads or any other thread that discusses the DLC vs everyone else. You can call me a liar all you want, I could care less. Any DU worth his salt has payed enough attention to know that you yelling "liar' liar" over this exposes you as someone that does not pay very much attention.

It's like calling me a liar for saying everytime a LIHOP thread pops up someone will post "you guys are nuts" "Take off the tin foil".

Hang around and open your eyes, you will find it yourself. After all that is what DU is about. Finding out for yourself, Don't bother apologizing when you understand you were wrong. All DUers learn something here eventually even if they try very hard not to.

All you can do is try to accuse me of something I didn't do:

You can call me a liar all you want, I could care less. Any DU worth his salt has payed enough attention to know that you yelling "liar' liar" over this exposes you as someone that does not pay very much attention.

I didn't do that though, did I? LOL

You are wrong. You are making false statements. That doesn't make you a liar. You just might believe what you are saying.

But even if you know that what you are saying is false, I would never call you a liar - that's against DU rules.



If such a post exists, 'informing "leftists" that they aren't needed' -- let's see it.

Think about it. Like I said in time you will stumble upon it yourself. Don't worry I will have forgetten you by then. No need to look me up to say you are sorry you were wrong ( I already know that).

The important thing is you will learn something and hopefully grow from that experience.

Good night.

But I'm glad to see NSMA and IrateCitizen still around...

...sorry, just a little name dropping cause I love those genderinclusive-guys :)

;)

The example that was being requested was
an example of all the posts informing "leftists" that they aren't needed


You just listed 3 usernames of DUers. But where is the example of the posts informing leftists they aren't needed? Where there really posts like that, or just posts informing self proclaimed leftists that they had too high an opinion of themselves?

lol

Leftists used to have more grit.

Good lord, I defend Israel and nobody's run me off yet.

I don't think they gave up on the struggle, just the idea that DU is a place that they can continue that struggle.

If you haven't noticed anyone leaving, or if you haven't been around long enough to know who is who, don't answer, or check "unsure" and explain...


failure.

..the disgruntled Dean supporters who left and/or were banned and started their own message board.

But "recent trend of long-time DU member exits" (if there indeed has been one) seems to coincide with that other message forum.

Coincidence, I guess.

And the reason has nothing to do with another message forum.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I wish they were still here to show you how to handle yourself on a UBB. Honestly it was the newbes like you that showed up to pimp a candidate that ruined the site.

LOL -- In my opinion, people who think the way to 'handle yourself' is to insult people as 'newbies' because they don't like their ideas or methods of expression are the problem.

Are not as valuable in the larger context of the struggle. Also people who blindly worship at the cult of personality tend to offer little in the way of good conversation.

I respect people who seek the truth, not bend the truth to fit a worlview or an agenda. The people who came her specifically to back a candidate IMO ruined the site wich used to be a great forum for activism in general.

Having to resort to namecalling just highlights the falsity and weakness of your argument.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

that I find revealing.

Just like this comment is interesting: (better that you, better than me, certainly better than windy)


Why do you feel the need to personally attack the other poster like that? I don't get it.

that is still allowed here, you know. I think the Clark people added a lot of spunk and vibrancy to DU.
Dean people just didn't like the competition.

I saw a lot of dishonesty that made me look at certain posters differently. People who clearly put their personal taste before the truth.

I don't want to single any candidates supporters out because I think all sides did at least a little. I just can't respect those that did the way I do those who did not. They have lost all credibilty.

if you're an example of the "old time" DUer - maybe it's just as well that some of your "soulmates" left.

That was really, really nasty.

I am a complete son of a bitch. That is why I stayed. I am not any better than most of the candidate pimps. I get nasty and say whatever I think. I miss those that were above all that. They inspired me to grow.

The people that we miss left cuz the rest of us suck so bad.


That is what I am talking about.

and last night was tense. Very tense. I have felt it all day. Point is, people do come and go...I am gone alot because I do not have access to my laptop at work.(for days, sometimes weeks on end) But we all have to move on and sometimes come back to where we started. Cliche', I know. but it is sad to loose a friend. Hope your loss comes back a hundredfold.

There will always be a new crop. I guess that's all that matters to some.

And, when people are cursed at and worse, they will go.

It would happen in the in the Dem headquarters, also, if people talked that way to each other there. I know of NOBODY who would stay and volunteer when they are called names like are used here. Just wouldn't happen.

Kanary

We all know it's not true. We all know that namecalling is prohibited at DU and that the mods have no tolerance for it.


So why do you keep repeating these false claims - that people are cursed at, and called names?


Isn't continuing to repeat this blatant falsehood just hurting your own credibility?

We will always be in contact, fortunately. It was an ugly scene with the freeper accusations. So damn far from the truth.

I'm sad about some who have left, also.

It's all very sad.

Kanary

or clique's or anything like that.



seriously.

failure.

The people I refer to were above candidate worship. They actually had a clue. DU could use them back. They could scholl the newbies on how to be a decent person with ethics.

That is so...so.....

If you ain't a "decent person with ethics" by the time you hit DU, it ain't likely that one of the wise old ones of DU would be able to rectify that.

But, geesh! What a contemptuous statement. Was that the previous level of discourse? Was that the "objective truth"?

On the decent person with ethics part. Maybe you were not here but there was a time when people here worked together to sort news, research and devolop strategy's that transcended Dean, Kerry or whatever candidate you pimped for. There was a time when there was a greater sense of community and less people trying to enforce their narrow political agenda on others.

We actually learned from eachother, some things I dare say crossed over into lessons on morality and ethics. One of the people most respected for his morals and ethical views was Pocho. I disagree that people should be "decent, ethical people" before they come to DU. In fact I believe we can all always evolve in those areas. So it's not really a stretch to acknowledge that people can and should grow as people and one way we can do it is to learn from eachother.

It's hard to learn from people who have already made up their minds about everything and shoot down others who are still deciding and asking important questions.

If these are the members you're talking about, then no they are no loss at all. To them I say, "Don't let the door hit you on the way out." (I may not seem like a long-time member but I was a lurker for years.)

We have to be able to follow evidence and arguments whereever they lead.

I have a feeling it is those people you refer to that are guilty of running off the more desirable DUers who actually want to research and discuss things like adults.

but nope. The answers are here for everyone to see.

failure.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I remember him from way back when, and in fact noticed his absence when I recently returned to DU. (low posts but long-time DUer)

n/t

...

To Carlos or something like that. He never belonged here in the first place that is why I doubt he ever left. I am sure he is here disrupting the board with right wing hate speach.

If only cutting dead wieght like that could make up for Pocho, Ewing NYC and a whole lot of OG DUers leaving.

But Taylor Mason Powell asked about "Jiacinto".

:hi:

Ah, the others you mention.....

Just because you disagreed with him, just because he wasn't "lefter-than-thou" does not mean you should defame him like that.

And I seriously doubt he's posting under another name, simply because his style is very distinct and people would probably spot him right away.

I might not have agreed with Carlos all the time, but to say he posted "right wing hate speach <sic>" is complete BS.

DTH

He used to call me "dispicable" but I miss his scruffy ass....

I still think he was a Perl script gone wayward, a set of canned responses that accidentally got loosed on the net.

He got banned again for making anti-Islamic remarks.

I know he was banned the first time for flying off the handle in a mandated "positive" thread. Which was stupid, but not right-wing.

DTH

He was a racist and a torture apologist.

And most of us are glad he's gone.

I never saw him post anything racist. Racially clueless, sure, but never maliciously racist.

As for "torture apologist," I think that's a pretty loaded accusation in light of the climate today. But if someone like Dershowitz can justify it to himself, I don't think it's any surprise that others can as well, even if we may not agree (or disagree vehemently).

DTH

"Those terrorists in Gitmo don't deserve rights because they're terrorists."

And the ever popular, "I AM NOT A FAGGOT!"

... America's only moving National monuments. :)

People threatening to leave... disappearing for a while... coming back.

I can sense from the tone of some responses that some think "long-time DU members" are leaving in bunches.

Truth is, they always have.

But my question is: Define "long-time DU members." 1000 posts? 2000? 5000? 20,000?

How about people with less than 1000 posts who claim to have lurked for a long time?

I just don't see how it can be defined.

I do know a handful of disgruntled Dean supporters left for their own forum.

Those remaining might be satisfied, but how can we ever know what contributions might have been made by those who left? A single compelling argument might change the course of someone else's life. A childish display of temper might have hardened another's resolve. Our community may be more than the sum of its parts, but the parts are a necessary component of the whole.

One person can destroy a community, but it takes many to make a coherent one. Every community is diminished by its losses, even if only a little.

eom

there will be comings and goings..that's the nature of it. There are people who picked up their jacks and left and frankly if I had to go to battle with them (in the event it ever happens) I would remember that when the going got tough..their response was a big "fuck you."

This place welcomes everyone and they are free to post or leave unless banned...if they stay in the frying pan it gets hot.

People do come and go, for a wide variety of reasons. You're right, that's one thing that makes DU a dynamic community. Still, it's hard to watch old "friends"-- even anonymous ones-- go. Hell, just when you figure out how to really piss someone off with finesse, they're outa here.... :grouphug:

but leaving (for the most part unless they repeatedly broke the rules) was their choice...you know that tired old saying...if you love something let it go and all that happy horseshit...look even all these threads tonight are because people are reacting to people who were reacting to them...as I said on another thread..that's the nature of debate..being challenged..shouted down for dominance etc...anyone wanting a nice warm enema is best off getting a tub and a hose that fits just right...not a membership on a busy political message board ;-)

*gulp* Please be gentle....:spank:

perhaps some of the "radical" left, but since i am a new member i certainly can't say, which is why i didn't vote on this one.

I certainly hope we haven't lost the voice of the "left wing of the democratic party."

while I don't always agree with them, i feel the party needs them to keep us honest and keep our eye on the utopia we should be, at least, trying to build

I think most of them gave up and left after being flamed to death due to Nader's run for the White House.

question, but this isn't the "WeNeedAnotherLame3rdPartyUnderground" after all

People who leave in a snit aren't worth having around. Lord, if they can't handle a disagreement on an internet discussion board, they shouldn't be on the 'net in the first place.

I have had members request me to ban them. Or find some way to keep them away during work hours. Others have left for political reasons or hatred of a clique or over a scrap with another poster.

I would say those are many of the cases. People been around too long, it's affecting their work and/or the real world.

So much of the data being presented here at DU is mind-blowing... some is terribly depressing at times when you wonder how and why? And more importantly, "what can we do about it?".

Me, I live over an ocean. I am not American. I can only hope that the movement the DU has propelled will win. For me, yes, there is a battle of civilisation per say, but it's not a religious one so much IMO. It's about imperialism and the war is all about oil.

And it's cyclical. Bushco thinks it can win by TV? Not for the next generation. The key is keeping the Internet in a state of anarchy. Freedom to express, free to share ideas...

The FCC is out of control. Media is self censoring itself hoping not to get fined.

How far are these info cops going to go? These images of the past week are showing where the next war really takes place.

G

www.expatforums.org
www.expathos.com

for solidarity...



failure.

Enough with this "if you were a real DUer you'd know" bullshit. I've been an active DUer since 90% of you bitches approved of the job Bush was doing. And I haven't noticed anything.

I'm also of the opinion that nobody worth a second of my time ever leaves DU, unless it's for ulterior reasons.

So pony up some names or I'll have to believe you're just trying to stir up some shit.

but even if I did, it wouldn't make a difference. That's not the question I asked...and I'm not trying to stir up any shit, seriously.



failure.

:)

Wouldn't you like to be my bitch? The pay sucks but it's got a lot of perks.

:evilgrin:

Many of use were here from just after the selection. I try not to preach at the newbies because we were all at one time or another a newbie.

I think we should all be aware that some of the very special people who helped get this place going and made it special have left because a newbie crew showed up, did not bother to learn what made DU special and trashed the place with their shallow candidate pimping and bashing.

We used to be good people first. Now we are Democrats first right or wrong and that won't satisfy intelligent people who want objective truth for very long.

DU was a place that these newbies could learn from some very cool vets like I did when I first started the DU. Instead they brought their shite vitrol stagnent worldview and shooted the better posters down.

and that's just Bullshit. I've been here almost three years and I'll tell you what, the Dean people were a nasty, hateful bunch. They got pissed because their guy lost and lost big. It was especially painful for them because he had been so puffed up around here.
Clark people were excited about their guy and had the same dreams and had just as much right to sing his praises as did the Dean people.
DU is a well run and popular place. It will be here as long as David cares to put up with us. A few babies leaving won't matter one bit.

I am not speaking of those who started their own splinter group, but rather of a particular member.

and new to this one, I just have to say that it is cyclical. Where old growth has died, new will spring forth. I have enjoyed my time greatly here @ DU, and I am deciding on being here for a while. I enjoy political debates highly. The other place I go doesn't have nearly the amount of debates this place does.
With what is happening to the media in general, I have to search high and low to get the info, and I am thankful that I found this place.

we have burning fires around here. :toast:

are leaving, that is the first indication that they have absolutely no intent to leave.

as some leave, others come to take their place...it's not like this is a board with only 100 members...to be frank, there are a LOT of people here, and I'd never know if someone had left unless the wrote one of those farewell posts...

and not to be harsh, but the entire site don't exactly revolve around a single poster or even a group of posters (except skinner, of course). DU will be fine.

46yes
35no

I wish bush's poll numbers were around 35%\


keep it up DU, this is for you.



failure.

Hmm.

look at my profile, you know I haven't been here long. Just look around and see if you can spot any threads from people who say they're leaving...


failure.

We all are diminished when someone leaves in anger or frustration, but frankly, politics is LIKE that. It isn't so much the ebb and flow that concerns me, it is the tone of the board that has changed so--and it really saddens me a great deal.

I hate to see the lack of civility and the open anger that so many feel is acceptable in the community. I always valued DU for being a place where I could get news and as a place where ideas could be thrown out and chewed over--even IF they seemed kind of far out initially.

I'll cite the entire 9/11 debate over LIHOP -v- MIHOP as a classic example. Immediately after 9/11 several on here were as horrified as the rest of the nation--but they were also looking at the statements and paying attention. There was a group who refused to even consider that our "leaders" could have ever allowed anything that horrid to happen--let alone had any real involvement--and in spite of that, there was a respect for the search for truth. I miss that.

I know of several members who have left over the past year, and there are quite a few who just don't show up as often. I know of members who did post the much hated "sayonara" however many just kind of shuffled off. I'm not sure it CAN be quantified how many we have lost or even who they all were.

The primary did drive a lot of folks out--and that really is not a shock. Primaries DO that all the time in local parties--DU suffered that same injury. Remember--not ONE person on here is coming here to just kill time--this is a board for political folks who WANT to be active and involved or at a bare minimum informed. You are bound to have some very real fireworks when you put that group in a small cage and throw in something like a primary.

Additionally, a lot of folks are new to the political process--driven to action out of anger at our current regime. I'm not being snarky, but with a lack of political history or personal involvement, it is very difficult to get back on an even keel after a divisive primary. The more of them you survive, the easier it gets to pull it back together a couple days after the election is over. Several of our members lacked that point of reference and we lost them, and those who DO carry that historical perspective grew tired of the hysteria.

Pax.


Laura

I'm a newbie. I joined after the primaries. I like this site.

There's actually a lot less flaming here at DU than on many other boards. Most people here are thoughtful, informed, and fairly polite. A lot of posters are very funny, which is extremely important to me. Without being able to laugh a couple times a day I would go crazy reading all the trouble that the Chimp administration is causing.

I think that people are feeling the stress of the horrible mess that Chimpy has gotten us into. With the exception of deliberate disruptors, there isn't a person on this board who approves of what Bush is doing. That doesn't mean that we agree on the solutions - far from it.

Maybe some folks just need to take a break. That is not meant unkindly. The election is months away. If the stress of reading about Chimpy's activities is getting to be too much, it would be a good thing to take a break and enjoy life for a while.

... a variety of internet forums like DU, relating to subjects as diverse as politics, technology, bodybuilding, etc. extensively; and I can say with a level of certainty that all of these boards evolve continuously.

People come, people go. Popular ideas and memes come and go as well. Personalities clash, some lose their heads and cross the line with their retorts and rejoinders.

I have to say that it doesn't worry me a cent. If the board gets too far out of line with my beliefs, I will seek out a new one, cyberspace is virtually infinite.

And for every person, who had a valid contribution, who leaves - there will be others to take their place. Natural order of things.

If the liberals have left, the site is in trouble.

But I would not call it a "recent trend" for long-time DUers to leave. People have been leaving forever, and that includes long-time members. They have been replaced with new long-time members.

Hell, If I didn't have to stick around, I probably would have left about a dozen times by now. If you don't get pissed off by this place sometimes, then you're not human.

But I don't think this particular thread is doing us much good. The whole newbies vs. old-timers thing is just divisive. And there seems to be a lot of arguing over which faction on DU is the most oppressed.

We have a lot more in common that many of you think. I'm tired of people trying to drive the wedge, but alas, such behavior has been a fixture here since, oh, January of 2001. I do my best to deal with it, but for the most part I find that people seem happiest when I just leave them alone.

This place has actually been pretty friendly since the primaries ended. I think, perhaps, our emotions are being affected by the horrible images in the news these days.

Let's just give it a rest for the night. Everyone, go over to the Lounge and have a beer.

Good night. I'm locking this thread.

Skinner

an erroneous impression of this board. This board is annoyingly referred to by the media and others from time to time as "representing" the Democratic Party.

Just my humble opinion.

And by the way, there have been people on this board who have changed their names for one reason or another. I know of several (including me) who have.