Somebody needs to put these fundy jack-asses in their place.

Sojourners weighs in on "liberal Christians" vs. the fundmentalists:

www.sojo.net

Are liberal Christians phony?
by David Batstone


The query came into my in-box this week, with the obvious inference that SojoMail is both liberal and phony. The accuser identified himself by name, adding that he had his Ph.D. and hailed from the state of Texas.


Without getting caught up in political labels - my self-proclaimed "liberal" friends stumble over some of my faith-informed views - I found his theology intriguing. Without a doubt, he clearly drew borders that zoned Christians into different political territories.


He opened his note as follows:

Liberal Christians have no understanding of the God-given role of Government. Liberal Christians are Peter-Pan Christians who demand that Governments, before the return of Jesus, foolhardily beat their God-given swords into plowshares and live according to the Sermon on the Mount. Liberal Christians do NOT realize that the plow-share things happens during the 2nd Coming of Jesus, when Jesus takes back the swords from Human Governments as He establishes God's Kingdom on Earth. This is why our Hero taught us to pray: "Please hurry Thy Kingdom to come, so Thy will is done on Earth as it is in Heaven."

If you have never had exposure to a "dispensational" view of history, my accuser's stream of thought may make no sense to you. I grew up in an evangelical Christian church that espoused a dispensational theology, so let me explain. God, it is assumed, has divided up history into different eras, or dispensations, and each will run its course. In our present era, the forces of good (God's chosen) battle against the forces of evil (under Satan's spell). God looks to government to practice order and suppress evil with the sword. This current dispensation will end with the second coming of Jesus, who will establish God's kingdom on earth.

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These fundies are driving me nuts. What can be done to call these fools on their bullshit? Peace.

probably nothing can be done. I would say avoid conversations with them at all costs and spend time discussing issues with like-minded people. The only way to get your point across to a fundie is to ignore her/him, they are already so set in their mode of thinking that they have completely missed the point of living and learning. They actually think that they completely understand God, which is somewhat tragic to miss out on life like that. There's no sense in having them pull you down.

they are so flawed in their thought and all bushie has done is contradictive to christianity from before office to this day. piece of cake. tke them down. all of them. no keeping quiet, no allowing someone to tell me if i am a christian or not. no way no more

They sure do twist the plain meaning of scripture, don't they? There's no indication from Jesus that he's talking about some time to come in the sweet by and by. He's clearly talking about the here and now. When Peter slices off the servant's ear in Gethsemane, Jesus tells Peter to put his sword away -- those who live by the sword shall die by it.

In the whacko version, Jesus would have told Peter to keep hacking. Heck, the way I read their twisted theology, Jesus should have snatched the sword away from Peter and started brawling with the guards himself. Oddly enough, in light of having a God-given and -wielded sword at his disposal, Jesus submits to the guards and is led away to be crucified.

These whackos also need to re-read Isaiah, and maybe a good biblical history book. Shameful that they would seek to lead even the very elect astray.

This is why religion needs to be kept as far away from our politics as possible.
If you happen to be a Christian, for example and the chimp and others have their way and infuse religion into our politics, what next?
I'll tell you, then it will come down to whether or not you are their kind of Christian, let alone any other religion!

Amazing the foresight our founding fathers had isn't it. Hmmmmm.

and go on with your life. I don't mean just simply ignore it, but live out your beliefs and put them into action. Sure, you can write and shed more light on the subject - but frankly, reasoning with these people is as effective as baying at the moon.

These folks are way off base and I do not understand how anyone can read the gospels and not understand the radical peace and freedom philosophy of Jesus - which is completely at odds with "mainstream" Christianity in America. Frankly, I think if Jesus ever showed up at an evangelical/fundamentalist gathering, he'd scare the hell out of 'em (no pun intended).

Tell them "I will be praying for the Lord to show you the wisdom of His words"- that would irk the heck out of them. But it is actually true- these ultra-fundies are sooo off-base on the basics of Christianity that it isn't even funny. Did Jesus tell his followers to be intolerant, insensitive, holier-than-God jerks? Absolutely not. That's where they're wrong, and that's where they need to really read their Bibles, actually read and study them (instead of going off of what their parents told them the Bible says to feel and believe).

Okay.

I ask two question:

1.) Can you show factual, scientific evidence Jesus existed?

2.) Is there definitive proof of the existance of a God?

Two very basic, fundamental questions. Once we answer those questions, then the discussion moves to issues of personal faith and stays in that realm. If a person wants to believe in the Old or New Testament or Koran or Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy, so be it. If there is a god, he/she/it created a free-will that was designed to question, logic and reason...it's there for a purpose.

I've found it fascinating engaging people who are fundmentalists and jiggle on the levers that hold them to their personal faiths. It can be a real travel into a person's soul and demons when you asked to justify their faith.

I just find incredible when I see these discussions as if it were a Smothers Brother's routine..."My God loves me more than he loves you..."