DU Political Scale and Census: Where are you? Where is DU?

I hear a lot about DU becoming too centrist, about the more radical-left being forced out, and 'newbies' diluting what the board once was, etc, etc. So, let's put all that to the test. State your political position in the poll, and if you like, make a post about where you think DU stands, whether it's changed, and whether you think certain groups are being squeezed out. Try not to get this locked of course, as i'd like to see how it pans out.
For the record, I am a socialist and have no ulterior motive, or agenda to push.

On edit - yeah, no doubt I have left something out.

I think DU is, for the most part, slightly left of center.

Do you think I was right to put Libertarian down as right-leaning? I can never get a sure handle on Libertarianism. Should I mark it down as outside the right-left spectrum?

Libertarians are far more to the right in terms of less government. You got it right.

is that you should have omitted the phrase (right-leaning) or had a second category (left-leaning).

It seems pretty right-wing to me, with it's emphasis on dismantling Government and placing the individual above the community. Wouldn't left-leaning Libertarians be Civil Libertarians? or are they basically rightists who hold certain left-wing values?

IMHO. The right-wing is all for government when it is exerting it's power to control, opposed to government when it is used to help people.

Most libertarians will say they are outside the spectrum, or would make the political spectrum in a circle, saying they are where the extreme left and right meet.

Wouldn't left-leaning Libertarians be Civil Libertarians?

That's what I would say.

or are they basically rightists who hold certain left-wing values?

I doubt many would characterize themselves that way.



I don't call myself a libertarian so I'm no expert, though. I called myself an anarchist in your poll but I'm more of a cynic than an idealist so my pragmatism generally outweighs my anarchism. In practice, I have always voted the straight Dem ticket.

I would put myself at Centrist Liberal and my impression is that this place is about left/socialist. But that could be a function of where we stand on the political scale.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

Does our political stance colour our opinion of where DU in general lies? That's a possibility. Does our involvement in DU preclude objectivity?
(no ulterior motive there on my part, PMbryant, just something I'm thinking about personally)

I answered "leftist/social democrat" but I'm a leftist social democrat who believes in a strong national defense, legal marijuana, the Second Amendment, a nationally funded (but privately administered) health care plan, strong protections for workers, streamlined paperwork for small businesses, tort reform, equal marriage rights for same-sex couples, and topless sunbathing.

Labels only go so far, and in my mind the political "spectrum" is more like a bunch of overlapping circles.

These are the labels that work best for most, but I think you're right there. Hey, I've only got 10 choices.

You've just described my political views almost precisely. I would add, some more emphasis on wealth-taxes and slightly less on income. Could reflect differences in our countries more than anything else.

I agree the left-right single continuum model of politics is ridiculous. http://www.politicalcompass.org has a two-factor model that is better. Your overlapping circles model is right on the money, but imagine trying to base a poll on it :)

My first impression of DU was that it was pretty hard-left/socialist, but I've noticed a lot of moderates around as I read more.

I wouldn't classify libertarian as "right" either. Some of the libertarian phiolosophy is very "left."

with serious Communist leanings on many issues.

on edit: In a bit more detail, I am: pro-choice, pro-drug, for a nationalized education and health service, for a living wage, for a progressive income tax, for affirmative action, for gun control, for a secular state, for environmentalism where it benefits human beings, against western interventionism in the third world, against animal rights, against absolute morality... I'm sure I have other positions too but I haven't the time to write an essay.

on edit again: on this compass business, I score a -7.00/-7.28 Left-wing Libertarian

What do you mean by communism?

Leninism? Maoism? Or something else?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

I don't really see Leninism/Stalinism/Maoism as helpful actually. Communism is about contextual answers to problems... and the context in which we ask questions today is totally different from 1917, 1932 or the 50s/60s.

on edit: although of course there are lessons to be learned from the past.

Everybody has their own theory on what communism means.

Do you belong to a Communist Party? That would make the matter pretty clear.

Do you favor a revolutionary struggle to force a move from a capitalist to a socialist economic system? That would also be pretty clear.

Beyond that, I guess the third question would be, Do you call yourself a communist? Well than I guess you must be one.

I don't mean any offense, just frusterated with a term that doesn't seem clear. Also because while I have some respect for individual communists (like Earl Browder), I have a strong antipathy for Communism as its been practised whenever communists finally got in power.

Bryant

I don't belong to a communist party, because I am a Yugoslav living in Britain so joining parties doesn't make much sense. As for a revolutionary struggle... I believe that you adapt whatever strategy is most expedient at the time - and revolution won't be happening any time soon in Britain. At the moment, I think working within the liberal-democratic framework is most helpful, but that may or may not change with time.

As for what I call myself, most of the time a socialist, although I will call myself a Stalinist to provoke RW tossers... :P

(not you, byron)

Its funny, but I think people's perceptions of themselves are different than what they truly are, from a political perspective.

I would like to think that its hard to put one's political views into one little box as opinions may vary across the spectrum over a wide range of issues (can one be socially liberal and fiscally conservative, for instance?)

But as far as a trend, or in general, the labels will work, with a few loose ends accepted

Maybe the language will change over time.

I think we are seeing that in the "polarization" of the US electorate (third parties, damn them!)

And the language has changed as well, the are fewer subleties there as well, a la shrubs "you are either with us or against us"

RW radio is responsible for this polarization and the rhetoric as well.

DU is the same as it has always been, only larger.
Increase in the memebership has brought more Centrists to the boards but, Leftists as well. I don't think the ratio has changed all that much.

DU is left of center.

:)

Isn't Democracy wonderful!

this link to a site with a political compass calculator.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

It asks a series of questions and places you in a set of quadrants. The scales are economic in one direction and social issues in the other.

I'm happy to report I keep company with Nelson Mandela, the Dalai Lama, Dennis Kucinich and Al Sharpton ;)

I'm also polar-opposite of the Shrub, Ariel Sharon, and Tony Blair! :)

it is nice to be in the company of Nelson Mendela

-9 and -9

The left to right scale precludes accurately describing somebody's political thoughts and values. I'm sure if you took two people who voted for the same label and asked them their policy positions, you'd find lots of differences.

I voted for social democrat, even though I have lots of philosophies that fall under communist and anarchist. And yes, if you go to the libertarian party website and look at their platform, they are quite clearly right wingnuts.

In general, I'd have to say I'm an optimist. I look forward to a future (10,000 to 100,000 years from now) when the human species has evolved so that peaceful cohabitation with each other and the planet is natural and universal.

Call me a dreamer, but I'm not the only one...

free enterprise seems the only motivator to working hard and ensuring the progress of civilization. democracy, in the hands of an educated public, seems the only way to curtail the excesses of capitalism and tyranny. unfortunately, education of the masses has been usurped by corporate thought control via tv, radio,"news" sources,religion, and movies. only when the people of our society become capable of analytical thought on their own, will a democracy work. imho,the prospect of this happening grows weaker every day, as the corporate brainwashing of our children grows more cunning than ever.

Free market capitalism and democracy aren't really compatible. I guess you wandered into that as you placed them next to each other as balancing forces.

Free market capitalism is a misnomer because capitalism, if left unregulated, is anything but free and competitive. Without regulation, you end up with abuse, scandal, and monopoly.

I'd favor a highly regulated market based economy (such as that found in Scandinavian countries).

And, the fact is, people want to make something of their lives. It is a conservative myth that if you didn't have greed (or fear of starving to death) as motivators in capitalism, that people would just sit at home all day forever and do nothing. People would still want to be doctors or artists or bakers or whatever.

is proper,rather, i suggested that democracy, in the hands of an educated populace, can be an effective means of control of capitalism gone amok. we have had free enterprise and democracy in this country for over 200 years. i also said 'seems to be' in regard to motivation. your point about what motivates people is arguable.

...the Scandanavian countries' system does not necessarily fit the USA. While free market/capitalism (often distinct) theories do not easily translate into democratic practices, the POTENTIAL is there. It's rather difficult to make the same statement about what passed for communism in the Soviet Union or China. Even a moderate socialist government in an agricultural society can be betrayed by the horrors of "communism" and "capitalism," as one of the most progressive revolutionaries in recent times found out .... I am speaking of Maurice Bishop of Grenada ..... We are faced with extremely difficult choices today. It may be that some type of "mixed system" is the only option that offers any real solutions. Clearly, having "private" ownership of energy resources is the single most obvious threat to democracy anywhere and peace everywhere. But free markets for things such as art, music, and the like are important. Does that make sense?

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

Or Eclectic, or both and more. I think Progressive is a nice category- sufficiently vague and implying positive change. Too bad that such labels are more interesting than meaningful.

I guess that I am like everybody else that bothers to have a political opinion- a slurry of hunches and impressions that might or might not be based on reality instead of fantasy/falsehood. I am constantly baffled by the opinions (beliefs) of others- do they know something I don't? Do I know something they don't? Or, more likely, are we all pretty clueless?

Cynical. You left that off the list too. In such an age of bold faced lies from our leaders, that might be the largest group of all. A great mass of Cynics, spanning the political spectrum and united in their belief that they are constantly being lied to.
:evilgrin:

welcome to du!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

I'm hoping that people are able to hold a wide range of views and beliefs that result in their being well-rounded, thoughtful, and capable of insight. Socialist? Yes, with education and health care. Free enterprise for teen-agers with newspaper routes, etc. Political leanings? Radical left to democrat. If a liberal moved into my neighborhood, I wouldn't place a "for sale" sign on my lawn .... though I would be uneasy if my daughters wanted to date liberals. Perhaps one of the problems on here is that there are several people who believe that they are "revolutionaries" without having any more of a clue as to what sacrifices and consequences are involved in being a revolutionary .... much as george bush in his power ranger suit last May 1 was merely playing soldier ... useless and empty rhetoric will not make progressive changes in the system. Just one example: Marxism is an economic system for industrial society. We are not an industrial society any more. So those who are identifying themselves as Marxists are living in the distant past. Some of the ideas of Marx can be applied today, but it's not really Marxism. I liked John Kennedy, and feel that we can learn a lot from his life .... but if anyone on DU advocated we support him for president in 2004, we would have a clue that person is not dealing with the reality of today.

A big round of applause for the new imperial, please folks!

Where?

I think that DU pretty much represents the center and left of the Democratic Party. I haven't really seen groups being forced out, although various people with behavioral problems are gone.

...the European social democratic movement is probably closest to my political beliefs.

.

and I'm going to say that I do NOT favor a strong military. We spend way too much on the military, more than ten times as much as the next biggest spender in the world. We need to dramatically reduce our military spending.

Our bloated military spending says all the wrong things about our values as a society. Military budget = over $400B. Welfare (TANF block grant) = $16.7B

that isn't much of a limb, i think you'll find that a large number of DUers would agree with you on military spending. i do.

glad to have you with us.

Unfortunately.

Twenty years ago that position would have been considered very liberal.

So what I've seen is basically the primaries and after. It is nothing but bullshit to claim anyone's been 'forced out'. There are rules that everyone must follow -- some are unable or unwilling to do so.

Then there are the self-proclaimed 'leftists' who don't want to have their opinions challenged. They post anti-Kerry and anti-Democratic-party rhetoric and when you try to engage them in discussion, they claim you are trying to 'silence' them. :eyes:

DU is like a crowded room full of people shouting their opinions. As such it is not always easy to hear what others are saying. But I think it is worth the effort.

Personally, I'm a center-left liberal, but I have sympathies with all sides of the left-of-center spectrum.

My bugaboo is more to do with posters prematurely expounding the most far-fetched conspiracy theories with only the flimsiest evidence. And they see a conspiracy behind EVERYTHING. I'm fully aware that conspiracies happen - often, and the Bushies are certainly not above executing them, but I think it makes us look bad if we start screaming "CONSPIRACY!" every time a democrat pol's limo has a flat tire.

Lately, I've even started to wonder if some of the kookier conspiracy posters aren't COINTELPRO themselves, flooding DU with crazy theories to hurt its credibility.

(Yeah, I realize that this also qualifies as a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory - so please just take it as a "rumination" - Just keep in mind that all kinds of lefty groups HAVE been infiltrated and compromised by COINTELPRO in the past, so it's not an impossibility. I'm just not sure if they would consider us a big enough influence to bother infiltrating us. Comments on this idea are welcome.)

Despite some probably minor differences, the majority of respondents to this poll seem to be pretty close to being on the same page.

.. but in the real world, we don't get to choose our tags, we're given them by strangers who don't really know us.

I put down Centrist, because that's where I try to stay. However, in discussions, you'll probably find my opinions (some in stone, some still being forged) run the gamut from UltraLiberal to Right of Center.

But good poll!

With some Green Party and socialistic tendencies. Sometimes an issue will come up where I don't think the far left position is best for the country, but that is rare.

I think that overall, DU is slightly to the left of Kerry.

...but I know there's more than one of us!

the "far left" isn't being forced out, and all the shit about Berg's killers being CIA Operatives is proof positive of this. Some of the far left has been kicked out or banned for breaking the rule of bashing the Democratic candidate because they (falsely) believe John Kerry is some kind of Bush-lite, but there are still plenty of left wingers here who post things like "WE DON'T NEED A MILITARY" and claiming that simple swears are "sexist."

The last several times this survey was taken:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1057644

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1432507

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1565769

I'm semi-liberal on social values, conservative on fiscal values, which describes the whole Democratic platform this year. Lucky me!

The DU is probably further left than me, but more than that, I find it more partisan. I don't hate all Republicans, and I have respect for most of them. Most people on this board like to show their disdain by calling them Repukes or Repugs, among other things. I understand the need to vent, but that's where I find the biggest difference among DUers and myself.

A young caller told her, "I'm a socialist" to which she replied, "no you're not, you just think you are."

Even though these labels are gray, Rhodes' point was we may not know the true political philosophy of what we profess to be.

is not necessarily what makes a socialist in Germany, Greece or Canada, for that matter.

Liberal on most social issues, but conservative on some (especially when it comes to children). Christian (but not fundy). Middle of the road when it come to most economic issues. Very, Very pragmatic when it comes to politics and winning elections. Very much a DLC Bill Clinton Democrat but I wasn't for Lieberman in the primaries. I was for Clark.

I think DU is pretty far to the left of me. But I still like all of you.:toast:

I don't know if DU has changed. I haven't been around long enough.

I am an extremist when it comes to supporting Texas Longhorn Sports. :) But I can still get along with the average Sooner. Except on that one Saturday in October.

very liberal on social issues, moderate on fiscal issues, a realist on international issues.

So umm...

Social Democrat. :-)

Like myself, for instance.