Catholic Voters Guide from catholic.com

Some quotes....

Catholics have a moral obligation to promote the common good through the exercise of their voting privileges.

"A well-formed Christian conscience does not permit one to vote for a political program or an individual law that contradicts the fundamental contents of faith and morals"

Some things always are wrong, and no one may vote in favor of them, directly or indirectly. Citizens vote in favor of these evils if they vote in favor of candidates who propose to advance them. Thus, Catholics should not vote for anyone who intends to push programs or laws that are intrinsically evil.

The five non-negotiable issues are

1. Abortion
2. Euthanasia
3. Fetal Stem Cell Research
4. Human Cloning
5. Homosexual "Marriage" (quotes as used on site)

Now I am not Catholic but doesn't the Catholic church condemn the death penalty as well? Why isn't that on the non-negotiable issues list? Could it be that it benefits the Democrats? It seems like these issues are geared specifically for votes toward the repubs.

Read more about the Catholic Voters Guide here

http://www.catholic.com/library/voters_guide.asp

I know there has to be more. Like I said, I'm not Catholic, but when I read that I just felt it was really biased, trying to make a case for the republicans.

stuff.

The Opus Dei people surrounding John Paul II and infiltrating the leadership of the Catholic Church are turning it into the same kind of fascist organization that the Opus Dei was when it supported Franco in Spain (and Franco supported it).

Some years ago I had great hopes of "Liberation Theology", but instead, the Church has turned in exactly the opposite direction. More control, more authoritarian, more restrictive, more punishing - at least to its members.

much of a public policy issue by the Church.

This is the reason I'm not a "practicing Catholic" anymore.\
That, and the obscene way the Vatican and the American archdioces ignored the sexual abuse that was going on in their chruches.

I noticed the same things you did, and I wouldn't doubt the site has something to do with the repubs.

Left when I was a teenager and realized that, even though I was a "good" kid, I'd got to hell for my beliefs in a woman's right to govern her own body.

Fuck 'em.

in certain extreme circumstances. I'm too tired to find the link... Yes, the death penalty should be on the non-negotiable list. Like I said somewhere else today, fat-faced hypocrites.

Probably too much to ask of someone this simple-minded.

Let's see here:

1. Abortion (I'm pro-choice)
2. Euthanasia (No problem with it)
3. Fetal Stem Cell Research (All for it)
4. Human Cloning (Aside from a general "creepy" feeling, no problem)
5. Homosexual "Marriage" (100% pro)

Here's the weird thing, though. Despite the above "don'ts", most of the Catholic folks I know are solid Democrats. Not necessarily Liberals, but Democrats, nevertheless. Without getting into a long-winded religious debate, could someone explain this to me?

Is it because John F Kennedy was a Catholic or something?

Seriously.

it was because of social programs, education, taking care of the elderly, medical and other issues which I would think true Christians would also be concerned with. I'm googling around to see if I can find something about the topic of Catholics and the Democrats. If I find anything good, I'll post it.

Granted, I was only going by the points listed in the first post. Certainly, there are many other considerations than the Pope's Top Five (Sounds like a pop-tune countdown, eh?).

Every Monday morning for three weeks I have found one of them there on the microwave. I am getting a little ticked off!

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That would probably be too much for his little mind to grapple with as would voting for someone who may try to form social safetynets which would make his #1 issue less of a problem.

didn't see one, but didn't stay long either. Without it, Vale nada.

because she was constantly bombarded with mail against abortion, etc from her church. From what she said, there were very graphic pictures, etc. Typical fear tactics.

Now, of course, after the war crap, she wishes she hadn't voted for BUSHWA, and says she will probably sit out the next election.

I gave her some information about Dennis Kucinich, and she became very enthusiastic about him.

Kanary

People who get frustrated and want to just sit out on voting. I know it seems like voting doesn't make any difference at times, but we still must do it. Its the right thing to do, and together, all those "one little votes" make a difference. I hope you can get her motivated enough to vote. We need her.

As I explained, she has been thoroughly indoctrinated with the Catholic ..... ( I want to use a very strong word here, but I'm restraining myself......). She cannot, in good conscience, vote for someone embodying those issues on that list. Can you understand that? Can you put yourself in someone else's shoes and understand how YOU would feel if you were in a situation of contemplating voting for someone whose values directly contradicted yours???

She has been in tears as we talked, because of this horrible stress of conflict within her. Surely you wouldn't want me to just beat her up more...? Surely you wouldn't want that if you were in her shoes? A bit of compassion, please.

Sometimes in life we really have to give other people a bit of leeway. We have to be willing to be mature enough to know that we can't undo years of indoctrination in a few weeks or even months.

I have NO POWeR over *anybody* and that includes both you and my Catholic acquaintance. Everyone has their own free will, and is entitled to the respect to make up their own minds. That includes you and me... and Catholics.

How 'bout just giving me the acknowledgement that I *did* talk to her, gave her lots of information, and answered her questions, and contradicted some of the crap she got from the church? Can you do that? It was hard work on my part, and quite emotionally exhausting. Rather than hearing how I should be doing more, it would be really helpful to just get a bit of acknowledgment that I spent that much effort.

I'm quite content that she might just sit out the election. If enough people who previously voted for Bushwa do that, he will go down.

Kanary

What is with all the anger? I wasn't attacking. I said nothing about beating anyone up for their beliefs. You mentioned nothing about all this "hard work" in your original post, but attack me for not patting you on the back for it. Yes, if people who voted for bush sit out that will help him to lose. However, if those people vote for Kerry, that doubles the effect.

My post said only that it drives me crazy for people to not want to vote. I don't know why that offends you so.

Because we keep going on and on about how we're the party of "freedom"... speech, beliefs, etc. Yet one can't even mention some good news without being told to do more, tell another person what to do, etc.

Maybe it would be good to find out FIRST before coming on so strong with what another should do.

Tell ya what..... you have complete freedom to do as you wish....... and others do, also.

Kanary

and why are you so upset over something I NEVER did? You make it sound like I attacked you and I haven't. I made a brief, bland statement and you interpret it as some sort of slam.

I responded with intensity.

Having the ability to recognize another person's efforts and give credit for that is a skill that will serve you well, should you decide to take the time to learn it. It certainly gets more positive response than to slide over what someone has done, and just demand that they do more. If you ever do any community organizing and political work, you willl find that skill gets you a lot further.

Kanary

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I would think that slaughtering thousands of innocents should be high on the list of things not to support.

Last week on the Daily Show, they had a story about the controversy about whether pro-choice politicians should be able to receive communion. Then they showed a tape of a head of a Catholic organization who said that "if someone doesn't agree with all of the Catholic Church's teachings, they should leave the church." John Stewart then said that "as a result, the Catholic Church now has only 3 members."

Another comedian talked about how Protestants are always quoting the Bible. She said Catholics have no idea whether those interpretations are correct because Catholics don't read the Bible. Instead, they read thick church bulletins. It is more important to Catholics to know what they are serving for breakfast today in the Parish Hall.

One of the many reasons for the split that created the Protestant churches was because the Catholic Church did not want people to read the Bible themselves. Catholics were supposed to rely upon interpretations from priests and not think for themselves. One of Martin Luther's actions that caused him to almost be executed was that Luther actually translated the Bible into German so that people could read the Bible for themselves.

(Shit! They're not even held responsible for theiir own!)

As long as a Catholic politician doesn't obtain or perform an abortion, where's the failure to comply with dogma? Since it's about imposing secular government power over the freedoms of another, and those others are responsible for their own choices, what the hell is the Church hanging its theological hat (mitre) on??

It seems that participating in killing other human beings (e.g. capital "punishment" and war) is one helluva lot more immediate in the sin department for politicians.

What about "bearing false witness"?? THe Busholinis make a habit of that.

130 bishops are silent on Kerry/Communion issue.

The church historically has gotten egg on their face when they've meddled in elections.

nowhere are the papal encylicals condemning the war published on his site.

This is a right wing concoction for a voter's guide -- not officially sanctioned by the church.

I think the Catholic Church would be more inclined to ask people to vote for candidates who could help create a compassionate society where abortion becomes less and less necessary.

no official record of who he is ... no university degrees posted... no nothing....

Hey I could go put up a counter site for liberal Catholics ... do my own voter guide and look just as authentic.

I'm not sure if this was sanctioned by the church, but they do this kind of thing from the pulpit - same as the Fundies.

My dad said he walked out of his old church once because they got a new priest, and all he did was rail about liberal democrats.

All churches need to lose their tax exempt status if they are participating in political advertising.

I'd like to see Kerry get tough on this issue when in office, and stick it to Pat Robertson.

No tax exempt status if they want to preach politics. That will end all talk of politics in church.

is a Catholic apologist, who writes books and is on EWTN and I think has some radio show too, declaring his church to be the one true church of Christ. Of course, everyone who is religious thinks theirs is the true or best church. Otherwise, they would go to church somewhere else. I can't find any info right now on him, who he is, what is background is, and why he can post a Catholic Voters Guide.

so you can't be a Catholic of good conscience and vote for anyone who supported it. You can't support it your self. Guess that means Catholics can't vote for anyone....

Unless this site is shut down and the Catholic church disavows it they should have to pay taxes like anyone else.

wars that kill thousands of innocent children and adults is NOT considered by them, not to mention the death penalty. This is SO hypocritical and one of the main reasons I'm sick of these blatantly political organizations called "churches" getting away with tax exempt status.