Joe Biden (? - DE)

Check the transcript and marvel at Joe Biden's comments regarding John McCain as Kerry's VP choice.

No clearer answer could be given to the question, "Why do liberals vote for Nader"

Biden paraphrased: McCain would be the best choice for Kerry. When asked what Democrat Biden liked he said,...That's too risky, I like McCain the best

He essentially on record and in no uncertain terms backed McCain for the VP position,...seriously,....no joke!

He says this even though in the same sequence he says McCain is a "staunch Republican"

This is follwed by a Bob Kerry outlining of exactly how a Republican VP could be firewalled and compartmentalized.

Amazing! Not Unbelievable,...Not Incredible,....just Amazing!

A sitting Democratic Senator basically nominates a solid Republican for the VP of his own party.

How can Democrats tolerate this? A major Dem Senator, thinks a unwavering Republican should be on the Democratic ticket?? And when asked about any Democrats he liked, he wouldn't or couldn't even mention ONE?!?!? It's too risky, he says?!?!?!

If the Dems lose this next one,...it won't be Nader's fault, nor the people who vote for him.

xtog

Nader supporter, who would vote Dem if they had any courage to support their own positions

to the Repugs for as long as I can remember. He's taken about as seriously as Lieberman by anyone who's even mildly to the left. He doesn't matter.

We wouldn't be having this exchange if Nader had not run in 2000. Gore would be in the White House. Of course, we would have Lieberman as vice president, but Gore would have focused on more peaceful means of resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Remember how close Clinton came to getting a settlement? I am positive Gore would have continued that initiative rather than encouraging the route that Sharon and Bush have taken.

And the Dems didn't care not even Biden.

No Nader = no Bush = President Gore = no war in Iraq, etc.

...vote margin just enough to allow the NeoCon legal staff to facilitate the coup.

for Nader. They're fucking morons. You're "paraphrasing" is extremely slanted and misrepresentative of what the conversation was both in it's tone and lack of inclusion of several things Biden said and how he said it. He was not insistant at all and was in fact quite up front about how he thought it would never happen. Not to mention he was saying most of what you present as the most outragious parts of it in a clearly jokingly manor

...on that list of so-called "Democrats" that act too much like the right-wing. After we gain the majority in the Senate, a replacement for Biden will be found, and he will be tossed to the roadside.

And he's a committee chairman.

This is for all the marbles. If Bush wins, it will alter the nature of America and the world for generations to come:
-Social Security will be dismantled
-Electronic Voting will be permanently gimmicked
-Unilateral war will be institutionalized
-The draft will be renewed (they will have no choice)
-Ashcroft will be free further curtail freedom
-The press will be forced to resume its Truth-for-Access posture
-US will be confirmed as a world outlaw
-The environment will be raped beyond repair

Many Dems see a Kerry-McCain ticket, correctly, as one that would defeat Bush in a walk.

I agree. But I disagree that there's a way to firewall him. JFK learned the harsh but true lesson: A liberal must NEVER select a conservative as his running mate. Bad things will inevitably follow. The right is not shy about manipulating events to oust a liberal if they think a rightist will take his place.

Besides, this just won't happen. McCain is telling the truth.

It's going to be Clarke. Put it in the bank.

JFK's vice president was Lyndon Johnson, who was not a conservative. Johnson gave us medicare, Head Start, and the Voting Rights Act.

Unfortunately, Johnson also listened to JFK's McNamara and got us deeper and deeper into Vietnam.

...the halls of Congress and occupied the White House.

Johnson was a heavy-duty supporter of the military, Big Oil, and a number of other industries run by very conservative people. LBJ also traded information with J. Edgar Hoover on a regular basis. LBJ's strongest supporter in the Democratic Party was John Connally, a Democrat who later became a Republican.

Additionally, Truman was the first president to formally ask for Medicare, not LBJ. If JFK had been alive, he would have been the president who would have signed that act into law, not LBJ.

<http://hnn.us/articles/1583.html>


The Voting Rights Act of 1965 has roots going back to the mid-1800s:

<http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/constitutional_issues/11887>

<http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/constitutional_issues/12366>


The Head Start program of 1965 is the only legislation that can be claimed by LBJ.

I fully agree that LBJ did some wonderful things for the nation.

But, as you probably know, LBJ was a major league mixed bag. He was at once both good and bad, honest and deceitful, above board and devious, naive and shrewd.

As JFK's VP choice, the problem was that LBJ fully bought into the incessant pressure of the Pentagon and the CIA to put combat troops into Vietnam. (Read the actual transcripts of JFK's NSC meetings to confirm this characterization--starting with the very first one in Jan '61). Yet JFK refused, and instead continued and expanded Ike's program of placing US "advisers" into Vietnam. They were under the operational control of the CIA, not the Defense Department.

LBJ invariably let it be known that he sided with the JCS. As a group they pressured JFK mercilessly. Yet this young and wise leader held out against them all through the bitter end. He and Bobby had visited Vietnam--indeed spent 30 days there in the mid '50s--and he well understood the problem of fighting indigenous peoples as a colonial power. His favorite remark to those pressuring him to send troops in was "If you can get MacArthur and DeGaulle to agree with you, then I'll think about it." Both of those men described such a move as insanity. Ike himself warned "This nation must at all costs avoid a land war in Asia."

When JFK announced, in the Summer of 1963, a new effort with the Soviets to end the cold war, and then in October ordered us out of Vietnam by 1965, that was the last straw for the hawks.

The point is that LBJ was way to the right of JFK on war and peace matters. He bought into the Pentagon arguments about Vietnam being easily winnable, and about the Domino Theory, and about how the Vietnamese people would love us if we came in and liberated them, and about how the Vietcong would fade into the jungles for good.

So when the thought to take JFK out arose among the arch-right cabalists like Allen Dulles and Curtis LeMay and J. Edgar Hoover and Charles Cabell (and--I have to say it, because it is proven beyond a doubt in my mind--John Connally), LBJ was seen as a perfectly fine successor.

I am from Alabama and was in my 20s when JFK was killed, so I remember much of what was happening then.

Johnson was a product of the South which was legally segregated when I was growing up. So I have always admired Johnson for going against his cultural roots and getting Head Start, medicare, and the Voting Rights Acts in place. Yes, I think JFK would have been for these measures, but many people at the time did not think JFK would have been able to get them enacted.

Johnson did not go against his cultural roots when it came to the military. I remember that when Johnson became President, many pundits said that he would do well on dosmestic issues, but that he lacked foreign policy experience. I am so sad that Johnson made such a mess out of Vietnam. I think JFK would have handled Vietnam much better.

We're about the same age, but I grew up in Cleveland. I hadn't thought to put together LBJ's souther roots with his tragically blind support of the military. I think you're right about that.

.. the Rapture will be lookin' better & better. Sumtin' to look out for.... y'know.. moving forward.... an' all... :shrug:

My personal opinion is that the Dems are putting these "bipartisan" soundbites out there to pacify the undecided and the repukes who do not want to vote for the *. Kerry's choice will be backed by "McCain" because he is a good friend of Kerry's, in the mean time those supporters of McCain will feel better about Kerry and his running mate. McCain is covering his repuke but in AZ, but he has been incredibly supportive of Kerry. The Dems have got to statrt thinking out of the box and realize that this is now a campaign to win the WH. You can not do this without the swing or moderate voter. The votes are in the middle. If any Dem were to switch to Nader because of the rhetoric of the campaign right now you have your answer as to why we lose the elections. It is politically naive to expect to hear the candidate pander to the base, the Dem base is much larger and more diverse than the repuke base which can be cohesive with pandering to the religious right, the dems don't have a single large voter base like this, we are a more diverse party that represents more of the ideals and needs of the American people however this does it more difficult to win elections.

We've got the Gulag going, now its time for one party rule!

Biden: I think John McCain would be a great candidate for vice president. I mean it. I know John doesn't like me saying it, but the truth of the matter is, it is. We need to heal the red and the blue here, man, the red states and the blue states. And John McCain is a loyal Republican. God, he drives me crazy how loyal he is as a Republican as much of a friend as he is. We disagree on a lot of things, but I'll tell you, the fact of the matter is that we've got to bring together the red and the blue here. This is a divided nation. And I think that--I would still urge John Kerry to pick up the phone and call John McCain. He'll say no probably. But I think John Kerry has an obligation to do that for the way he wants to heal. And I know John will listen. He'll say no, but I'm going to tell you, I'm counting on him being a more loyal American than he is a loyal Republican.

And, John, I'm not so sure you're so happy about the Senate. I'd like to see you president instead of the guy we have now. So--but you're a great senator. But I think you'd also be doing a great service. Do I think it's going to happen? No. But I think it is a reflection of the desire of this country, and the desire of people in both parties, to want to see this God-awful, vicious rift that exists in the nation healed, and John and John could go a long way to healing that rift.

Russert: Senator McCain, as an American, you can stay a Republican. You can be a loyal Republican. It would be a fusion or a unity ticket. Would you contemplate it in any way, shape, or form? Would you take Senator Kerry's phone call if you knew he was calling about it?

McCain: I will always take anyone's phone calls but I will not--I categorically will not do it. But I would like to add one additional quick comment. Joe's right, there's too much partisanship in America and there's too much partisanship in the Senate and there's too much partisanship. We've got to have people sit down and start working on issues that are not partisan in nature and start working on them so we can do our job as legislating and working for America. And I'm very disturbed about the level of partisanship which has led to gridlock. And we're not doing our job as our constituents expect us to do.

Russert: All right, Biden. McCain is out. Who is in?

Biden: I'm sticking with McCain. It's safer right now. Look, there's a lot of qualified people. I don't know how John's going to go about the--John Kerry is going to go about the choice. I think the single most important thing that John Kerry has to do is, the day he announces that person for the Tim Russerts of the world--there are not many of you, but for the big feet, as they say, in the press--to say that makes sense, that guy could be president, or that woman could be president. I think that's the single most important thing for people, when he or she is announced, say that person could be president.


IT'S SAFER RIGHT NOW?!?!?!?

WHAT DID HE MEAN BY THAT?

BIDEN'S VP advice,....nominate who the Republicans and the media whore like!!!!

ahhahhahaaa!

It was clearly NOT A JOKE.

I did. When he said "I'm sticking with McCain. It's safer right now," he was laughing. He wasn't suggesting that McCain was a safer choice than any of a number of other fine Democrats, he was saying that McCain is the safer choice for Democrats to be TALKING about while Kerry goes about the business of selecting whoever he selects.

It's very clear to me that this McCain talk is just idle speculation designed to drive home the point that even Republicans should be questioning George Bush's leadership.

When Biden said "It's safer right now," I got the impression that he was saying that it's safer to talk about a VP choice that will never happen than it is to dissect the other possible VP choices and let the GOP pick them apart.

He said right afterwards "Look, there's a lot of qualified people. I don't know how John's going to go about the--John Kerry is going to go about the choice." I think he'd prefer that Kerry carefully select the best candidate regardless of media speculation. If the media wants to chatter on about John McCain, it's good for Kerry and bad for Bush. Period.

he was serious despite the chuckling he was still doing due to mccain's 'palm tree' comment

TOO RISKY??

is that supposed to be funny?

Biden never said that.