Anti-McCain people, answer/consider this please...

(I had this buried in another thread, but the more I thought about it, the more I think it's deserving of some direct thought...)

If enough REPUBLICAN Representative's or Senator's stood up tomorrow, said "I can no longer support the positions of goals of the Republican party and throw my support to the Democratic Party" or "I am declaring myself Independent" that took control AWAY from the 'pugs. We would be dancing in the streets and the 'pugs would be in shambles..

What's the difference if McCain said "I can no longer support the positions and goals of the leadership of the Republican party, I declare myself an INDEPENDENT and ally myself with John Kerry for the good of this country".

What's the difference??? Why apply a 'double standard'?

The goal is to gain control of the government away from the new-nazcon, are we so vain as to refuse allies???

.. *IF* he did, why should we kick him in the face. To do so would take COURAGE. There is NO WAY he could run as a 'pug with Kerry, so he would have to do this or something very close to it.

want him to be VP. He seems like a good man, but I'd be quite content to have an Independent OR another Democrat in the Senate. he could do a lot of good there.

If John McCain wants to campaign for Kerry, great, but instead McCain is campaigning for Bush.

Of course we want as many people as possible campaigning for Kerry, but the person a heartbeat away from the Presidency should be a Democrat, not a Conservative Republican.

And there are many fine people (including many women) who have devoted their lives to the Democratic party.

John McCain has shown no inclination to change his party affiliation. Also, Kerry is center enough, why take the ticket even further to the right?

I respect him and welcome him as an ally, but I really don't understand the fixation with getting him on the ticket. I mean, if Zell Miller suddenly became Bush's running mate, would you vote for him? HA.

I think what Kerry really needs is a hard-core democrat, not Democrat-lite.

http://www.wgoeshome.com

Yes, he has integrity. Yes, he has honor.

But bottom line, he's a conservative.

He should be working to take his party back from the criminals and theocrats.

The Democratic Party is there to represent progressive politics. Not conservatives.

McCain does not belong in the Democratic Party, regardless of all of the wonderful things he stands for in terms of his personal integrity.

He is a conservative. Conservatives do not belong in the Democratic Party.

and cannot find it in his heart to take on Bush and give him the finger, as Jeffords did. He is all smoke and no fire.

that's a pretty big-ass IF

we admire McCain's feisty, independent ways, but his politics are those of a Repubican, not a Democrat. Why spend all this time on "what if" scenarios? McCain could serve in the Kerry administration, perhaps. What if someone defrosted Walt Disney? He could run and offset the votes of Nader.

.. in the turmoil that we are facing... ANYTHING is possible.

So I make sure I understand this, those are are rabid anti on this issue...

*IF* McCain rennouced the 'pugs and became indy..
*IF* Kerry took him on the ticket as VP..

you would withhold your vote from Kerry, possibly handing this nation over to four more years of BushCo and the neo-nazcons and the probable final destruction of this country's reputation, standing in the world and the eliminations of the rest of our freedoms??

Just making sure I understand.

...*IF* this happened, our votes wouldn't matter anyway, because Republicans would just flock to the democratic party like flies on... Because that's what the Democratic party would be about, shit. DLC wet dreams of just merging the two, One Corporation, under God, indivisible, for Profit and Graft for the few...

If McCain renounces Bush (big IF), and declares himself an independent, he's more than welcome to campaign for Kerry, but hand him the VP slot? Look, we were thankful for Jeffords, but we didn't offer him Senate Majority Leader (although looking at Tom Daschle, maybe we should have).

a deal breaker

He caved in 2000 and continues to do so.

It's bad enough that we have enough politicians doing this on the sly-- when it's someone who's done it openly on any number of occasions... well screw him----

He allowed himself to be hosed by Rove and Co. and took it.

End
Of
Story

:wtf: is it about that that you people don't seem to understand?

In the election, it is a great move and without Kerry's death it is a decent move. But putting McCain at VP would be tempting fate, he is a republican after all and we can not afford to have a Republican at no.2!

Though the media has been labeling presidential hopeful John McCain a "liberal", his ADA voting record tells a different story. With a lifetime rating of 9%, National Director Amy Isaacs said, "It is a great defamation of our character to call John McCain a liberal. The very few places he has voted for the 'liberal' position just go to show a person can't be wrong all the time." The only area where McCain's voting record is even in the moderate range, with a 45% voting record, is in the area of campaign finance, which brought him to the spotlight in the first place (the McCain/Feingold bill being a well-known good bill on campaign finance). On such valued ADA issues as Education, Housing, and Social Security, McCain scored a 0%. Listed below are the three candidates with ADA voting records, side by side for comparison. A full voting record of individual votes can be obtained from ADA, although it is quite lengthy.

Statistics from the ADA:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~nycada/newnews/news0003-2.html

Project Vote Smart

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0061103

ACLU

http://archive.aclu.org/vote-guide/239.html

Daily Kos

On the other hand, he's, what do you call them... a Republican. His 2002 ratings, with Kerry's in parenthesis:

Americans for Democratic Action (liberal): 20 (85)
ACLU: 0 (60)
AFSCME (labor): 29 (88)
LCV (environmental): 41 (94)
Concord (pro-balanced budget): 95 (65)
National Taxpayer's Union (anti-tax): 75 (18)
Chamber of Commerce: 79 (55)
Christian Coalition: 79 (55)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/4/3/213110/5512

McCain has an ACU lifetime voting record of 84% which makes him more conservative than any Democrat in the Senate. He supported tax cuts, supported a ban on partial birth abortion and supported the appointment of judicial nominees by President Bush.

http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0404/0404veepstakes2.h...

over and over again.

If only there were more like him, the republican party wouldn't find themselves in the trouble they are in today.

Let McCain try to reform his own party from within, and let the democratic party do the same.

That is the only path to true bipartisanism.

the polls showed Kerry at 45 - 48% with all possible VP candidates except John McCain and with McCain on the ticket, just suppose the polls showed 55% support for the ticket? So it would come down to a Kerry-McCain ticket or 4 more years of Bush-Cheney, which would you vote for? Would you wholeheartedly support the ticket or grudgingly? :)

:eyes:

McCain is a REPUBLICAN. Pro-corporation. PERIOD.

We've had Republican "values" for the last 24 years. I'm sick and tired of it. (Now Clinton balanced the budget, yes yes yes, but he did nothing for corporate welfare, didn't lay down a finger between 1996 and 2000 when the grand majority of corporations paid ZILCH on taxes, didn't stop the trend of workers working at a faster rate for no increase in pay, and a truckload of other statistics that would make EVERYBODY stop and wonder what sort of liberal Clinton is NOT. In some ways, Clinton was as much as repuke as the rest of them... He only had a better personality and some charisma - the very things that Americans are trained to enjoy. Not ideas or policies, but personality.)

and NO? Did you not hear him say "what part of no don't you understand?"

I think it makes us look a bit snively.

Nah, no McCain. Forget about it.

Only then would I believe he is a man of conscience. As of now, he is a Bush whore, who grovels for the Chimp who pissed on him and his family in the SC 2000 primary.

If he wants to disown Bush, let him do so.

We keep giving him the benefit of the doubt. Its time we stopped.

Take him at his word. He will work to reSelect Bush.

If he is a true patriot, let him pull a Jeffords and bolt.

because that's what we're talking about here. We're not talking about giving our support to moderate Republicans who want to take back their party from the radicals. We're actually discussing the possibility of putting a Republican as VICE PRESIDENT on the ticket who has not only NOT repudiated the radicals who control his party but TO THIS DAY is working to re-elect Bush and is the co-chair of the Arizona Bush re-election committee.

selecting him as VP is a deal-breaker for me . . . I live in New York, so it won't matter a whole lot, but it will give me some measure of satisfaction when I stay home on Election Day . . . but I'm not really worried, because Kerry ain't gonna pick him . . . so let's just drop it, okay? . . .