Do you really want to vote for Kerry?

Don't get me wrong, i like Kerry, but he was my next to last pick as a primary candidate. (Lieberman was my last pick.) I will vote for Kerry, but my heart is still with Kucinich and Dean. Anyone feel the same?

Chomsky:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/voices/story/0,12820,1168160,00.html

Kerry was, and remains, my first choice.

And hoping that he's not as bad an "insider" and political game-player as I suspect he is.

and this is how bushco wants it

Period.

Signed - Former avid Dean supporter.

but I support him against Bush because he's the only real alternative.

Gore said he wouldn't run.

Kerry is a stud. War Vet, Prosecutor, Senator for the people...

As president, he'll be looking out for a guy like me.

What I really want is to be twenty years younger with a hot babe anxious to boink me, but since that isn't in the cards I will do everything I can to elect John Kerry as Plan B.

I can relate to that sentiment. :-)

that the Democratic nominee will be Kerry. No coincidence that my two favorite candidates in the race, Kerry and Kucinich, were also the two most liberal and are still campaigning with a November victory in mind.

I can understand that centrists won't be happy about Kerry's record and preferred those candidates who governed as centrists, but, it doesn't change the way I feel.

The fact that Kerry has exposed more government corruption during his tenure than any other lawmaker in modern history also means alot to me.

Maybe if other lawmakers see that they can expose corruption and STILL be president, then they'll follow Kerry's path and we'll see more of it in the future.

of the limousine type.

I will vote against bush...not for kerry.

...and am salivating at the opportunity to vote for Kerry in November. Anybody who doesn't feel that way should stay away from these threads.

Why do you ask?

guy, but I don't see how this post serves any purpose.

your heart if listened to would cause a GOP landslide in November. NOw, we actually have a pretty decent chance to send these psychos back to Waco where they belong.

However, I do.

I have to vote for John Kerry, but I don't want to. I flat don't want to, period.

And those who can't appreciate the difference will never get it, and that's just to bad for them.

and yes...I WANT to vote for John Kerry for president. As a matter of fact, I am excited to have the opportunity to vote for John Kerry for president.

Did you dress down the original poster for his comments? I don't think so, however, I could be wrong. How do you feel about what he said?

did not imply that "some people" are not smart enough to know the difference between have to and want to.

:shrug:

You know, in terms we not so swift Kerry supporter's can understand.

It's a head vs. heart thing, as the OP stated and I tried to say above. Again, as many others have also stated, my head (needs) will vote for Kerry even if my heart (wants) isn't it in. I hope this clears up the confusion I seem to have created for you, cause it's the best I can do.

My problem is with your implication that those of us who have been with Kerry all along are just not bright enough to "understand" that we should not actually want to vote for Kerry, but have to.

If you don't want to vote for him, but will hold your nose and do so, that's fine. A vote for Kerry, whether or not you are breathing while doing so, is still a vote, and will be another nail in the Bush team.

Please don't imply that the rest of us are just not smart enough to be able to grasp "the difference" between need and want. Kerry did not become the presumptive nominee because people "needed" to vote for him. He became the nominee because people wanted to vote for him.

What many of the posters on this thread are objecting to is the constant complaining about "having" to vote for Kerry. It is not productive in the cause of deposing the person NO ONE on this board wants to allow another 4 years.

I never implied anything of the sort. I told the OP I knew exactly how he felt, and that I too struggle with those same feelings.

My commentary was not aimed at "Kerry supporters"... that would be like looking in a mirror and pointing at myself since I too support Kerry as the nominee, and not just by and through writing my thoughts on a message board, but in my real life through actvism working FOR the Kerry campaign.

And my feelings are mine, I own them, and I am entitled to them, just as your perceptions as to my intent are yours... but I am telling you that my intent was not to degrade, dismiss, or otherwise accuse any "Kerry supporter" of not being "smart enough".

And since my time at DU is limited lately, the "constant complaining" to which you refer is not at all constant to me. Hence, my post. Read what I wrote to Teena. My position and response to the OP was and is all about "feelings".

In closing, sometimes I let a guy buy me a drink and it is JUST A DRINK; it doesn't mean I'm sending signals to the the guy who buys it for me.

What is this "difference" you mention that we fail to "appreciate"?

How come those of us who vote for Kerry "will never get it" and it's "just to(sic) bad" for us? Define "it", please.

Your initial response to the OP is exactly what I addressed in my commentary.

I never said or implied anything remotely close to "those of us who vote for Kerry "will never get it" and it's "just to bad". Care to try again?

We certainly could have gotten worse (Joementum?) and I hope Kucinich and Dean will continue to bring some focus to bear on issues that would otherwise be put aside. Let's just say, though, that we're living in an age of diminished expectations.

Thank god we're not energizing the base too much.

ABB

We are all on the same team here.

asked?

Look, at the start of the primary season, Lieberman was the one who reportedly had it in the bag thanks to name identification. I am thankful to God, Buddha, Krishna, the Cosmic Muffin, The Bilderbergers, The Illuminati, Skull and Bones, Proctor and Gamble, and all the secret powers that be on the planet that being a Democrat means I won't have to vote for a ticket with him on it again.
It annoyed the fucking shit out of me the first time I had to do it...so ...yes...voting for John Kerry is a fucking valentine's compared to that possible eventuality.

I'm all for ABB! That doesn't mean i have to instantly love Kerry. I'm sorry, but my views are a bit left of Kerry. I like the guy, but as of now, he doesn't inspire me to want to vote for him! I don't like having to vote just to get the other guy out. I will do it, but i don't have to like it!

Yes, I am glad to vote for Kerry.

So this subject matter is of interest to me. And frankly, it made me feel good to know I wasn't the only one on DU still struggling with my feelings re Kerry, and I appreciate the thread.

Why the intolerance? There are a few hard core posters here, but the bulk of us don't come here all the time... and we matter too.

as I stated above, we could have done far worse.

Oh yeah,


Let's go get those Bush bastards!!!!!

:hi: :hug:

You are complaining about a guy that investigated more government corruption than probably any politician ever.

You are complaining about a guy that does not take PAC money.

You are complaining about a guy that has probably one of the best environmental records of anyone in the house and senate.

You are complaining about a guy whose voting record is far more liberal than not.

You are complaining about a guy who has a pretty stellar civil rights record, voted against DOMA, favors reducing dependency on foreign oil and in fact favors cleaner fuels, recognizes the crisis in affordable housing along with many other obstacles the poor face.

I understand he has his drawbacks...every last one of the candidates did...one had to win. It was Kerry.

Didn't ya?

You have one democratic nominee. One. I didn't support him in the primary. Once he is elected I will probably be extremely critical. But right now, it's time for all of us to just SHUT THE FUCK UP and GET THE FUCK BEHIND OUR GUY.

He is the better, and ONLY, viable alternative to Bush.

I'm a die-hard Kucitizen who will also be critical of Kerry after he's won, but for the love of God and all that's holy can we PLEASE get off the man's back long enough for us to wrest this country out of the clutches of the evil bush bastards?

Pretty please?

over time I have come to examine where it is that I am coming from politically.

Before the Bush debacle of the stolen election and all that has followed that has been absolutely tyrannical, I was politically inept and unconcerned. Yes, that is true. I did not pay attention much at all.

I have come to realize, slowly, that I am far to the left of Kerry.

I would support Dean or Kucinich.

I am, if I want to get Bush out, forced to vote for Kerry, a candidate I know not where he is going but who seems to be far more to the right than I would like.

and here I am saying ABB

I am not sure if I will vote for Kerry at all.

and has an over 30 year public record that proves it.

Dean governed as a centrist and fully acknowledges it.

nt

would focus on it.

Nothing like that has been forthcoming.

I would assume that the Kerry team knows what and what not the press is focusing upon

and if they are not then they do not deserve attention at all.

What do you expect Kerry to do with information about Dean's liberalness or illiberalness? He's already got it in the bag.

:shrug:

Its a vast left wing conspiracy.

and she NEVER acknowledges Kerry's trailblazing in progressive areas as gay rights, environmental legislation, and the FACT that he is the one lawmaker who has exposed more government corruption than any lawmaker in modern history.

You can post all the opinion crap that claims otherwise but until they print the WHOLE truth they are still crap.

And if she thinks Dean is somehow to Kerry's left I'd like to see her PROVE it using Dean's actual record of governance.

In fact, ANY of you want to claim that somehow Kerry is to Dean's right are welcome to prove it using his ACTUAL record of governance.

(although I do find it somewhat amusing that Dean keeps coming up with those who keep announcing that the primaries are over and that we should get over it). I actually hadn't been aware that Kerry had voted for the '96 welfare "reform" bill. That's the issue that broke the back of my support for Bill Clinton that year.

I don't really care where Kerry is relative to Dean. That vote pisses me off.

The reason Dean is used as a gauge is that those who supported Dean no matter what seem to find so much to criticize about Kerry, even when Dean was for much of the same things about which they complain, INCLUDING the IWR which had the same outcome as the Biden-Lugar version thatDean was for at that time.

I don't give a rat's ass about Kerry's position relative to Dean. I supported Dean, voted Kucinich after Dean dropped out. You're the one who keeps bringing up Dean for your own purposes.

And the welfare "reform" bill still pisses me off. I suppose we'll never know just how many people that 5-year limit fucked just as the recession geared up.

while hoisting Dean higher on a pedestal who bring it up. You don't, but, too many others do. I note the hypocrisy. It's a matter of keeping the discussion and the discussers honest.

I was against the welfare reform bill, too. More importantly, I know who I trust to fix all that was wrong with the bill come next year.

You don't, but, too many others do.

Why are you bringing it up with me?

More importantly, I know who I trust to fix all that was wrong with the bill come next year.

Do you really believe that that's going to happen?

And Dean figured into the posting because the other poster said that Kerry was too far right while supporting Dean who is demonstrably further right than Kerry.

If people would stop pushing that manure, then I'll (happily) stop rebutting it.

;)

on what you're basing the belief that Kerry will "fix" the welfare law?

Just like I always believed in Kucinich even way back when others called him a DINO and a conservative for his prolife stance and his votes with the GOP against flagburning.

I always knew he'd come around because I trusted his heart. I'm still waiting on the flagburning, though.

will get you a cuppa at Starbucks. We're playing for keeps, where intentions are nice but don't matter much, right? Dennis at least had the sense to buck up openly to the prolife votes once he started for the national ticket. Has Kerry said "boo" about reforming welfare reform? If so, I'd dearly like to see it.

No legislation has to be "for keeps" especially flawed legislation.

I'd still rather see something a little more concrete.

But, after over two years posting here, I think my instincts have given some strong showings.

;)

Would anyone have bet me last year that Kerry and Kucinich candidacies would still be alive at this point?

Once again for the slightly more thick-headed among us:

Dean was attracting support from across the politcal spectrum because he was offering an alternative to the milquetoast, appeasement politics that have been the staple of the Democratic Party in past years. It had very little to do with positions on policy.

remember these.......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=886610&mesg_id=886610

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=887431&mesg_id=887431

I am not sure if I will vote for Kerry at all.

The electoral system doesn't function in the way it should by any measure of a "democracy". Bear in mind that it was set up initially for the aristocratic class only, and even with the huge improvements made since then, it's still gamed by the wealthy and will continue to be.

I'm voting for Kerry because Bush does have to go, if for no other particular reason. Getting rid of the current junta *is* an important enough reason to do so, in my view, but we all have our breaking points. We're going to have to stay on the ass of whoever makes it through the system anyway.

and that is the truth behind idiological thinking.

Why should I vote for someone who voted to give Bush a blank check to murder tens of thousands of innocent people?
Who was too stupid to see through the Bush lies? Others who were in touch with their conscience, saw through the lies. Why did not Kerry?

Can I go to sleep at night knowing that I voted for someone who advocates continuing the occupation that was born on the murders of tens of thousands of people who just happened to be born in Iraq?
That he is going to fix the occupation once Bush is out. What is the godamm plan? To continue to support thje military industrial complex? The war profiteers?

I have had it with killing and murder on lies. There is no way I can support this continued occupation.

No

I will not.

I understand what you're saying - still (and as odd as it feels to be the one making this point), if it's not Kerry, it'll be Bush, and Bush sure as hell isn't going to get us out of Iraq.

Why should I be forced , in effect, to vote for someone I do not like, to get rid of the current, "worse than", occupier than the contender, who is not advocating getting out of Iraq?

My belief is that Bush has to go because of his evil and his stupidity, but that Kerry actually wants to retain the spoils of the war Bush grabbed in his slaughter, and the occupation of Iraq.

That is why, imo, he advocates remaining in Iraq and "fixing" it.

The spoils are too provacative and lucrative to our system of capitalism to abandon.

Why do I need to vote for someone who I think will demand that I have to suffer through four years of corporatistic policy that I do not really have any confidence in?

There is something here that is not quite right.

Have lost all faith in the system

100% Marianne

Why should I be forced , in effect, to vote for someone I do not like, to get rid of the current, "worse than", occupier than the contender, who is not advocating getting out of Iraq?

Unfortunately, you are. So am I. Thus is the system. Maybe more importantly, thus is the state of our nation and citizenry.

My belief is that Bush has to go because of his evil and his stupidity, but that Kerry actually wants to retain the spoils of the war Bush grabbed in his slaughter, and the occupation of Iraq.

Perhaps - my own views run more toward there not being much in terms of a "face-saving" option for leaving Iraq, but perhaps.

Why do I need to vote for someone who I think will demand that I have to suffer through four years of corporatistic policy that I do not really have any confidence in?

I've been involved in far too many Green/Dem flamefests, both here and in real life, to even begin to tell you what you *need* to do. You're the judge of that. And agreed again, policy-wise.

I've voted for Nader, twice and unapologetically. You're preaching to the choir, friend.

There is something here that is not quite right.

Truly said.

and have voted because "this is the system"? How many have stayed away from the poles because they percieve that "they are the same"?

No one likes to think they do not have a choice. IN this case we have a tyrannicaol idiot in charge who was not elected, and we only have a meager choice to oust him.

Further, at this point we do not know what this alternative choice will do as far as the occupation of Iraq, except that he would bring in the UN.

Well, this candidate is not in charge 9of the UN and does NOT have any influence in the UN, except that which others do have, such as France and others.


There is nothing to say they would be willing to take over the horrible blundering the US has caused in Iraq.

So for Kerry to advertise this as his platform re Iraq, is doubtful and at best, shaky.

Not for me unfortunately.

I am a late comer to politics, and as such, do not buy much of it that would have me join in like a sheep to the most current wisdom as far as who to vote for.

I have decided that I will vote or not vote for the one I see fit. I may not vote at all, and no one will know the difference. But I, in my conscience will know the difference.

I know too many of my fellow countryfolk here and there to believe that a substantial number of them haven't been hoodwinked into voting against their own interests. I'm reading a Harper's article now on the poorest county in the US (in Nebraska) and how it went 75% for Bush in 2000.

I'm not arguing with your basic ideas. I'm really not. I *would* encourage you to vote - a lot of people have died for that right. Other than that, knock yourself out. Just make sure you're informed.

in every way and give ALL control of Iraq's future to the UN and let them direct the course of the peacemaking and reconstruction, including the profits. The US military will be there to help secure Iraq FOR the UN.

What the hell do you read that makes you believe that his intent is the same as Bush?

Try sticking to the FACTS and Kerry's own words.

Thursday, April 15, 2004
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/14/kerry.iraq /
The Massachusetts senator, and presumptive Democratic nominee for president, said the Bush administration has failed to draw international support that would lend legitimacy to the occupation and a new Iraqi government.
A banner hanging at the campus forum demanded a U.S. withdrawal, but Kerry said that would leave "the potential for civil war."
"The course that I have proposed is to turn over to the United Nations the full responsibility for the transformation of the government and for the reconstruction," he said.
"Because I believe that as long as it is an American occupation, we will have great difficulty in staying any course and achieving the kind of stability we want to achieve."
_________________________________
Senator Kerry: End US Occupation of Iraq
Agence France-Presse- Wednesday 16 July 2003
http://www.truthout.com/docs_03/printer_071803A.shtml
"We need to get the sense of American occupation over with. We need to protect our troops. And that means that pride should not prevent this administration from going to the United Nations and doing what they should have done in the first place," he declared.
"Remember the old saying, Harry Truman's saying, 'The buck stops here'? Right now, apparently, the buck stops at Langley (CIA headquarters). And there are a lot of questions about the political input to this intelligence," Kerry told NBC's "Today" show.
"I made it very clear that their diplomacy leading up to the war was inadequate," Kerry said.
"I said I thought the president should have even done more diplomacy before he went to war. I said to the president, 'Mr. President, don't rush to war. You need to build the large coalition necessary in order to win the peace.'
"And I said very clearly, winning the war was not what was difficult, it's winning the peace," Kerry said. "And I don't think the president put a plan together to do that."

__________________________________________
Hardball Battle for the White House:Sen. John Kerry
Oct. 20, Tuesday, 7 p.m. ET
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3227001
MATTHEWS: Let’s take a look at your position. Because of all the candidates, you were the most foresightful, I thought, in seeing the troubles of occupation.
This is what you said a year ago when we sat around a group like this at the Citadel.
KERRY: I’m prepared to go. I think people understand that Saddam Hussein is a danger. But you want to go maximizing your capacity for victory, not beginning with deficits. That’s one of the lessons of Vietnam. The war will not just be the military operation to move the regime out and to take Baghdad. The war will be an ongoing process of how you then rebuild the country. How you build the democracy in a place that’s never had it, in a place where violence is the tradition. And that is the challenge for awful us. I want to think it through, Chris, so no one has to ask the question, was this a mistake?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: You saw, sir, the violence coming. You recognized that this would not an lickety spit war, blitz war. That even after the aircraft carrier and all the celebrations, there would be fighting at us, there’d be people shooting at us, and American soldiers being killed as they were just yesterday, two more guys.
Knowing all that, why do you have a complaint now in the way that the occupation is being handled? Since you perhaps more than the president saw the hell to come.
KERRY: Because the president is not putting in place a policy that most, exactly what I just said, maximizes our ability to be successful. Maximizes the protections of the American troop. Look I remember what it is like to be in a country with an M-16 where everybody around you is looking at you and you can’t tell whether they’re about to kill you or not. Whether there’s a kid going to walk out and throw a satchel of explosives in your boat or car or whatever it is. And I foresaw this. And I said to the president in January, Mr. President, don’t rush to war. Take the time to build a coalition. Take the time to have countries with you. Take the time to have our nation with you. Because if the going gets tough, that’s when it is most difficult. My judgment is that the president rushed this with all the wrong assumptions, with all the wrong conclusions, and didn’t lead in the way that a president is supposed to lead.
Now my position, I know what people say. My position could not be more clear. For 7-1/2 years, we found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. For 7-1/2 year, we destroyed them with Ambassador Butler. We found more chemical and biological weapons than we thought he had. We found he was further down the road to the creation of nuclear weapon than we thought he was. Then the wall come down and for four year, there are no inspections. We’re given information by our CIA, that says here’s what’s happening in this building, senator. Here are the photographs much this is what our intelligence is telling us. I thought the responsible thing to do for our country was to force Saddam Hussein to accept the inspectors and to have the threat of force. It was right vote but the president did it in the wrong way and he is still doing it in the wrong way.
________________________________________
Kerry calls for end to "Made in America" occupation of Iraq
Apr 17 '04
http://www.keepmedia.com/ShowItemDetails.do?itemID=444358&extID=10032&...
WASHINGTON (AFP) — Democratic presidential contender John Kerry called on President George W. Bush to get rid of the "Made in America" tag on the US-led occupation of Iraq in a new campaign attack.
Kerry used the Democratic Party's weekly radio address to make a new appeal for a dramatic change to US policy in the country US force invaded in March 2003 and where they are still struggling to restore order.
"Staying the course does not mean stubbornly holding to the wrong course," said the Massachusetts senator who will take on Bush in the November 2 presidential election.
"In order to complete our mission, we must review our tactics. We need strategies that reflect realistic goals and the facts on the ground."
Kerry said Bush and other US leaders had to be "honest with the American people about the difficulties we face in Iraq" and more troops must be sent to secure Iraq.
_____________________________________
By Dan Balz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, April 15, 2004; Page A02
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A12944-2004Apr14?language=pri...
NEW YORK, April 14 -- Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.) said here Wednesday that President Bush's stubbornness in refusing to share authority and decision making with the United Nations and other countries has put U.S. forces at greater risk, unduly burdened American taxpayers and made success in Iraq far more difficult.

"I think the approach of this administration has been consistent and stubborn in the way that it persists in this American occupation and in proceeding down its own road," Kerry said. "It has made that mistake from Day One, and it is costing us money and I think it is costing us lives."
Kerry said withdrawal of U.S. forces should be determined by whether Iraq has been stabilized, not whether it has achieved democracy. Democracy "shouldn't be the measurement of when you leave," Kerry told reporters at an afternoon news conference. "You leave with stability. You hope you can continue the process of democratization -- obviously, that's our goal. But with respect to getting our troops out, the measurement is the stability of Iraq."
Kerry said more international support would help take the focus off the U.S. occupation. "The minute you have that international acceptance, you begin to reduce some of the capacity of people to focus on the infidel United States and to focus their energies on our occupation alone."

can't find it anywhere in all of that, although I thank you for the information.

Kerry wants us to stay, under the UN. Excuse me, but the UN is not involved at all and has so far, recused itself from being involved.

Why is it that Kerry does not advocate simply removing our troops?

The privatized troops can stay. LOL

Well how does anyone know what the UN can do?

The members were not our allies. They may not be willing to take over the bumbling of a Bush administra5tion

What are we supposed to do? Trust that a Kerry can convince the UN to take over the bumbling of the United States and allow the US to keep it's hegemony in Iraq?

It has been written into the Iraq interim Constitution, which US corporations are allowed to function and indeed cannot be ousted from their lucrative holdings in Iraq.

That would also leave the fundamentalist Taliban with a MAJOR seat of government.

Why the heck do you think Bin Laden was gunning for Saddam himself?

Kerry will get a UN coalition to run Iraq until a real Iraqi representitive government can be formed. As part of that deal, I'm sure the "constitution" will be rescinded and a new one that allows total control of Iraq to Iraqis to be developed. If Iraq cannot form a government, I suspect the UN will oversee a balkanization of Iraq, maybe into 3 distinct entities.

But in no case have you provided any reasoning as to why you think Kerry has an interest in Iraq. Bush and the Republicans certainly had their own economic motives, but I have seen nothing in Kerry's past that shows any specific interest in running Iraq. Please share if you have it.

Actually, I think Kerry will use the Iraqi fiasco to rechart a new vision of America that will get us energy self-sufficient while creating a new opportunity to put Americans back to work, rebuilding a new post-Peak Oil infrastructure.

their eyes about alternative fuels and the necessity of FULLY FUNDING its research and subsidizing the implementation and access.

That is the TRUTH about what Kerry will do. This same as Bush horseshit is just absurd and blazingly stupid.

Could you point us to some corroborating quotes from Kerry? Or is this your gut theory, without substantiation?

BTW, this was Bush's War. Kerry voted to support the Office of Presidency, to give Bush the support of Congress to back the UN inspectors. It was based on official, albeit bad intel. Kerry did not demand an occuption and invasion. That was Bush's decision to do it for his own narrow political/economic reasons. I would suggest reading Kerry's qualifying remarks on his vote if you want to understand his position instead of accusing him of Bush's crimes.

We can't say 'the DLC made me vote for Nader' or 'the DLC made me not vote for Kerry'... WE make that decision for ourselves.

Hopefully enough of us will vote for Kerry in 6 months to offset the votes or non-votes of those who are too pure to soil themselves in the muck with those of us who see the stakes and are willing to get our hands dirty in order to at least BEGIN fixing this mess.

No, Kerry's no panacea. But he is one of the FIRST steps on a long journey.

:mad:

and I am voting for Kerry this November, so please hold off on the "pure" thing, redqueen. I'm not going to pretend that a centrist agenda excites me, though.

Just hate that 'look what you made me do' mantra, is all.

And as you say, I'm less than thrilled to be given a choice between corporate-approved candidate A and corporate-approved candidate B, but here we are.

:hi:

but rather "thanks for sucking every scrap of meaning that you can out of my party". Yes, here we are, and we all get to deal with the situation by our best lights, but the question was one of the ambivalence some of us feel about the whole damned thing these days. I put that squarely at the feet of the DLC, but that's just me, and I don't have anywhere near enough money to matter.

Yes, I agree it's quite fair to say things like, "Look at the shambles you've left our party in!" and, "Look how alienated most of the country is, aren't you ashamed of ruining what was once 'the party of the people'?"

Another fair comment might be, "Look how far to the right you've influenced the Democrats to move! You're giving Nader ammo! You morons!"

:)

Kerry - 92
Kucinich - 86

Dennis was against abortion, though he's changed his tune since he ran for President.

Just thought I'd put this up for the record. It would appear that JK is the most progressive liberal person who ran in the primaries....

He was my third pick, truth to tell, but I always thought we had a strong field of candidates. But I think Kerry has it in him to be a great President.

Bryant
Check it out -> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

viable choice to get Bush out in November.

AND......

I'm actually getting excited about voting for him.

Kerry's Iraq vote, but my issues aren't enough to stop me from voting for him,lol.

So if this topic keeps coming up here i apologize for starting this thread. Didn't know....just posting my thoughts.

<http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=S0421103>

You'll have to do a few click-throughs on each subject area, but you'll eventually find out how Kerry voted on each of the items listed below:

Abortion Issues 2004 2003 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1993 1992 1991

Agriculture Issues 2002 2001 1999 1998 1997 1996 1994 1993 1991

Appropriations 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1995 1994 1993 1992 1991 1988

Arts and Humanities 1999 1998 1997 1994 1991

Budget, Spending and Taxes 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1993 1992 1991 1990

Business and Consumers 2004 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1988

Campaign Finance and Election Issues 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1993 1992 1988

Civil Liberties 2000 1999

Civil Rights 2000 1998 1996 1992 1991 1988

Congressional Affairs 2003 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1993 1992 1991 1989 1988

Crime Issues 2004 2003 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1993 1992 1991 1988

Defense 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1993 1992 1991 1988

Drug Issues 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1988

Education 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1993 1992

Employment and Affirmative Action 1998 1995 1993

Energy Issues 2003 2002 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1992 1991 1988

Environmental Issues 2003 2002 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1993 1992 1991

Executive Branch 2003 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1993 1992 1991
Family and Children Issues 2003 2000 1999 1998 1997 1993 1992 1991

Foreign Aid and Policy Issues 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1993 1992 1991

Government Reform 2002 2001 2000 1999 1996 1994 1993

Gun Issues 2004 2000 1999 1998 1996 1993 1991

Health Issues 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1993 1991 1988

Housing and Property Issues 1999 1998 1996 1988

Immigration 2000 1998 1997 1996 1994

Labor 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1991 1988

Legal Issues 2003 1999 1998 1996 1995 1994 1992 1991

Military Issues 2002 2000 1999 1998 1993 1988

National Security Issues 2002 2001

Regulatory Issues 2003 2002 1999 1998 1997 1995 1994 1993 1992 1991

Science and Medical Research 1998 1993

Senior and Social Security Issues 2001 2000 1999 1998 1996 1995 1993 1992 1991

Social Issues 2002 1999

Technology and Communication 2003 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1993 1992 1991

Trade Issues 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1995 1994 1993 1992 1991 1988

Transportation Issues 2004 2003 2001 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1992 1991

Veterans Issues 2001 1999 1998 1996 1992

Welfare and Poverty Issues 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1992 1988

...to actually check this out to see how seriously wrong you are.

I REALLY REALLY WANT TO!

Senator Kerry is our nominee and he will make an excellant president. I am supporting Senator Kerry and will work on his campaign as well as vote for him.

With all of Bushs' scandals of late, Kerry should be ahead by at least 20 points by now! He is not inspiring people. Of course, Dean would not have worked out as the media crucified him before the primaries even began. Kucinich, as shallow as this sounds, did not have the right look. That leaves us with Edwards, who should have been our nominee...

Simple is, Simple gets: Vote for the Kerry to a Landslide.

The problem is getting others to do so...

but I don't want to waste my vote.

I'm a Dean guy. He lost. I'm over it.

I'm for Kerry all the way, and I'll work my ass off to get him elected.

You?

Gotta get Bush outta there before any real changes can happen.

These guys are never going to be perfect or match you 100% ideologically. He is a fine candidate and the best choice available.

Dennis couldnt in a trillion years defeat bush.
And I do like dennis..

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

If you plan to vote for Kerry, vote for Kerry.
If Kerry doesn't match up with you 100% but you can't tolerate the thought of another four years of Bush, vote for Kerry.
If you're so disappointed that your ideal candidate is not running and you're thinking about not voting at all, might as well vote for Kerry since you'd be throwing your vote away by staying home, anyway.

We could have this election in the bag and STILL lose it because of "take-my-marbles-and-go-home" liberals.

This is our FUTURE we're talking about.

Listen ya'll. The decision is made. The die is cast. Get behind our guy or vote for Bush.

Unity now.

Problem no. 1: get Kerry elected. Problem 2: getting Kerry to govern the way we want doesn't matter unless and until we get him elected.

Focus, people. Quit whining about your guy not winning the nom (mine didn't either, so what?). Turn your energy towards getting our team running this country. Let's use our heads here.

Unity!

want to vote for Kerry. I am obsessed. No one thought it would come to voting for or against the US constitution, but that is what it is.

Those who vote for * vote against the constitution. Those who vote for Kerry vote for a return to democracy.

It's that simple.

You know what, who gives a crap who we liked in the primaries. They're over. Here's what I know:

I know the Bush administration is so unspeakably evil that nothing - not even supporting a third party - is more important than doing whatever I can to remove him from office.

I know that the best and likely only change of removing Bush from office is to vote for Kerry.

My choice then, is clear.

so PLEASE vote for Kerry for me!!

He better not escalate IraqNam. My only concern.

Dean was/is my man.

Was my second choice, now my first.

Best credentials of anyone in the primaries.

Sorry. More DU'ers want Kerry.

Was my second choice, now my first.

Best credentials of anyone in the primaries.

Sorry. More DU'ers want Kerry.

definitely!

But Dennis just wouldn't stop shrieking, and Kerry is just so much more ... you know, electable. I'd still probably rather have Teresa - in fact, seeing her speak is what made me like her husband - but he's growing on me day by day. I do, I do want to vote for him.

Dennis will have to wait until the rest of the world is ready for goddesses and other stuff that he shrieks about. Hopefully it won't be because the Evil War Chimp and his crew swiped another four years and destroyed everything.

capable candidate. It won't be hard at all casting a vote for him.

eom

I had Kerry about 6th on my list when there were 10 candidates but he's the guy so I want to vote for him.

If he picks Wes for VP, I would be ecstatic. If not, I would still be ecstatic to vote chimpster out.

~Furity

He won the nom, the past is past.

The fate of our Supreme Court, and our environment is at stake.

He was my second choice (after Clark) if I can even remember correctly.

He may have been fooled by Bush initially, but so were a lot of people. I used to crap my pants everyday, but I soon learned that that wasn't the right thing to do.

As for staying in Iraq, I think that if we started the job, we have to finish it and Kerry will do a much better job of finishing it than Bush, Inc. will.

If you take the time to read up on Kerry a bit more, you might find that the media hasn't been giving him a good shake.

I suggest http://www.johnkerryisadouchbagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com. It really shows a bit more about John Kerry.

I rather would have had Kucinich, then Braun, Sharpton or Edwards. I can hold my nose and vote for Kerry but I wish we had someone who I thought would bring major progress instead of minor changes.

It could be worse though. At least it isn't Dean. I don't know if I could have voted for Dean at all. Its one thing to be a moderate Dem, but its something else to completely change for the primary and mislead everyone into thinking you're a liberal. That still kind of pisses me off since I was a big Kucinich supporter, and he didn't have to pretend to be liberal for the primary.

still am. I think Dean is making a difference in grass roots campaigns everywhere and I know he would make an awesome president. Too bad he's not an establishment whore. I say if we have to have an establishment candidate, it might as well be a liberal.

my order was
Dean
Clark
Edwards
Kerry

I just can't get excited about Kerry. I want to know what he now thinks that same sex marriage is not a reality. I personally have a very hard time casting my ballot for anyone who doesn't support equal rights for all. (civil unions = seperate but equal = which has been determined to be unequal)

I will cast my vote for Kerry.

When I voted in the VA primary it felt so awsome to actually vote FOR a canidate. I just wish the media would of given DK better coverage.

And I mean that.

signed,
Karl Rove

signed jfk.

I want bush out........I don't want Kerry to be my candidate but he is.

You know when Sam asks Josh if Hoynes is the real deal, and Josh tries to explain. Is Kerry the lesser of two evils, maybe. Of course my 5 year old son would make better decisions than Dubya. Do I think that Kerry will be head and shoulders better than Dumbs*%t? You bet your ass! Will he be my Bartlet? I hope so. I think being a senator makes it more difficult. For as long as Kerry has been in Congress he has to have voted against something that can come around and bite him in the ass for real. Not the crap about the defense spending or the body armor. I think a Governor has a better ability to stave off those attacks. I just can't see how Kerry can lose. I hope I'm right.

And yes for the record I'm a West Wing junkie!

Dems

And I won't.

i gather
since anyother vote is for bush

"You're either with us or against us?" Where have I heard that before? Many countries weren't with us on going to Iraq, but I don't consider them enemies, nor do I think they were Hussein's supporters. Kerry's not my first choice (or my 2nd... or 3rd) so I will hold my nose when I vote. Some people are not willing to compromise their pricipals to this degree, and I respect them for it, though I disagree.

The Professor

If all the republicans can say bad about Kerry happens to be lies, he must be a pretty all right guy. I'll vote for him with no qualms.

Kerry was among the last on my list of favorites, so I understand that.

But the task before us is simple and it ain't therapy -- vote Democratic in November.

till November to vote President Kerry into office! :bounce:

He wasn't my first choice, nor close to the last. I just didn't think he had a shot before Iowa. Doesn't matter. Not only is he the candidate, it's maybe the first chance I've ever had to vote for someone for whom I have total respect and have known about and respected for years - and has a chance to win. Carter is a wonderful humantarian, but I hadn't ever heard about him before his run for the presidency. I had some definite areas of disagreement with him, too. I was very happy that he won, of course. Mondale - never had a shot against Reagan. Dukakis was the weakest candidate we could have come up with if we were trying to throw the election. I really did hold my nose and vote for Clinton. I used to say that I voted Republican twice in my life - once in a local election and once for Clinton. I was more enthusiastic the second time, because by then it was about more than just a presidential election. It had really become Us vs. Them and They made it that way. Also, Clinton's brainpower was pretty amazing. I like "smart" presidents. I know...that's elitist, but what can you do? Gore was fine, but not someone I could get worked up about, although I certainly didn't buy the "lesser of two evils" thing either. I thought he'd be a fine president, but he wouldn't be someone I'd have picked out of a primary line-up. But Kerry - Kerry is the man of the hour. Kerry is an exceptional person who is capable of rising the incredibly daunting challege of cleaning up the mess this administration is leaving behind.

He's more liberal than they are. Maybe not as sexy, but sweetie pies, this world is in a heap o'trouble, we don't need sexy, we don't need exciting.

I don't care that he's boring, imperfect, and not a dream.

He's my man.

Anybody that can take that moron that is unfit to lead his way out of a paper bag, that is traitor, and a fool, far away is a dream candidate. I'll take that.

YES!

I fully support Senator Kerry. He will be a great President.

Bush should never had been selected for office in the first place . . .

I'll be proud to vote for John Kerry. I just hope my vote counts.

Check out his record - he may have lost his way post 9/11 but anthrax attacks bring out the worst in people.

Basically - saying 'No' to Kerry is like asking for more Center-Right Dems.

I'm going to vote for Kerry. But I would have preferred Wesley Clark or Dennis Kucinich though.

I'm ex-military, and I feel the zietgeist of militarism, the redical republicans with their dominionist foot soldiers filling congess, and the compliant judiciary all wrapping themselves in the flag, have needed a strong counterpoint.

I liked that Clark had a clear vision for America's next one hundred years. Something that might have moved the pendulum back to the middle for us all in a way that answered the dark American dream of endless war and jingoism the neocons love to project.

So far Kerry hasn't defined such a sense of a new America for me.

I think he can. I hope he will. I hope he's just waiting for the right time to come out and inspire us with strength, clarity and well a defined vision -- a new American dream. But he seems like a business as usual, but business done right proponent. I think we're in allot more trouble than that.

What I want to hear, is for him to address, in no uncertain terms, the imminent need for America to get the oil monkey off our backs once and for all.

Among other things. I want to see the billions dumped and wasted in oil wars to go into a national drive to develop radical new energy technologies (and related industries) that work and don't pollute. If done right, it could put us all back to work in the next few years.

But I'm dreaming.

Aren't I?

I had him down at teh bottom of my list as far as candidates go. But here he is now and I still don't know if I will vote for him.

The american people are getting screwed by the fake two party system this year. We have a false choice. Kerry will get my votye cause bush is just that bad but I wont even beging to feel good about it.

What really bugs me about this whole thing is looking past this election to the next one. The republicans will have to put up someone really abhorent in order for me to feel strongly enough to keep this spineless waffler in office again. I think many will feel the same and that means we get only a four year reprieve from the puke agenda before being right back where we started.

Who knows maybe kerry will get into office and become something i dont think he is and we will all be able to breathe a huge sigh of relief. I am not holding my breath though.

:eyes:

...only (yes ONLY) because an amoeba would be better in office than the current occupant...