http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/8685148.htm?1c

Senators want top-level probe

WASHINGTON - Members of Congress from both parties called Sunday for additional investigations into the Iraqi prisoner-abuse scandal to determine whether responsibility lies higher up the chain of command than with the seven Army reservists who are facing criminal charges.

``We need to take this up as far as it goes, and we need to do it quickly,'' Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said on NBC's ``Meet the Press.''

He and other lawmakers were responding to two magazine reports suggesting that top-level Bush administration officials made recommendations on interrogation policy that could have contributed to abuses at Iraq's Abu Ghurayb prison.

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The May 24 edition of Newsweek says a memo written by White House counsel Alberto Gonzales after the Sept. 11 attacks may have generated policy recommendations that contributed to abusive treatment. Newsweek reported that in January 2002, Gonzales wrote to President Bush that in his judgment, the post-Sept. 11 security environment ``renders obsolete'' the Geneva Convention's ``strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions.''

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http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/194289p-167884c.html


Democratic and Republican lawmakers rejected yesterday the assertion by President Bush that the Iraqi prisoner abuses were the work of a few low-ranking soldiers.
"The idea that a few rogue directed all this, I think, is gonna be disproved," Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), a reserve Air Force judge who serves on the Armed Services Committee, told CBS' "Face the Nation."

In his Saturday radio address, President Bush blamed the scandal on "the actions of a few."

But new photos given to Time magazine by Army Spec. Charles Graner, who faces charges for his role in the Abu Ghraib abuse, appear to depict military and civilian higher-ups at the infamous jail participating in unlawful torment of Iraqi detainees. Graner said he just followed orders.

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Give those warts on the face of America some compound W.

As I understand it, if charges are filed, they must originate in the House. Wonder if there is a bi-partisan investigation in the House too? I haven't heard.

Because everything in the House has to be OKed by Bug Man, Tom DeLay.

In the Senate, people are less partisan. And Warner & Levin work together, & are holding hearings.

Senators to Press Scandal
A GOP-controlled panel, feeling slighted by the administration and obliged to look at abuse of prisoners, has no plan to drop the issue soon. — As the White House struggles to get beyond the prisoner abuse scandal, it faces an unsettling fact: The Senate Armed Services Committee — controlled by Republicans — plans to keep the issue alive for weeks to come.

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The Armed Services Committee, led by 77-year-old Senate veteran John W. Warner of Virginia, has served noticed that it would not pull back, as the House Armed Services Committee has done. Instead, Warner plans extended hearings to call on the carpet such high-profile officials as Army Gen. John Abizaid, commander of U.S. troops in Iraq, and L. Paul Bremer III, head of the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority.

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Warner and his committee believe they have been treated cavalierly by Rumsfeld and his senior aides.... Warner is not the only Republican who seems determined to keep the feet of the administration to the fire. At least three other GOP senators on Armed Services questioned administration witnesses aggressively during the opening round of hearings last week: John McCain of Arizona, Susan Collins of Maine and Lindsey O. Graham of South Carolina.

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"Every once in a while, members of Congress simply decide to do the right thing…. Members could not look themselves in the mirror if they didn't get to the bottom of these horrible acts," said John J. Pitney Jr., a professor of government at Claremont McKenna College.... Joe Garecht, a GOP political strategist, agreed.
"Lawmakers like John Warner, Lindsey Graham, John McCain and others are truly angry that this situation existed, and believe that it is the Congress' duty to reestablish America's moral credibility abroad," he said.

years and getting no replies. :-|

I thought he was one of the good guys.

But in the end, they are all pols.

Seems they wrote, called, faxed and e-mailed to Carl Levin, Arlen Specter, Joe Lieberman and a 4th person whose name escapes me. Anyone remember?

Plus of course the White House.

So why is it now a valid excuse for low-level GIs? I don't get this.

We still have rampant racism in this country, and from what I've read about Pfc. Lynndie England, she came from a community where contempt for people of color is the norm rather than the exception. While I am quite positive that she and Graner and the others received orders and instructions from higher up -- I don't think these GIs could have concocted culturally specific interrogation techniques -- why should that absolve these people from the truly horrible things they did?

But it's also important to get at the higher-ups. I think this thing goes a long way up the chain, and we need to get at EVERYONE involved. Standard prosecution procedure usually uses the "carrot" of a plea agreement for those at the bottom to get the names of the higher-ups involved. I am anxious to see whether they are going to really follow this thing "as high as it goes, and quickly"

because I think they have the ultimate responsibility.

But I also think just being low on the totem pole shouldn't in and of itself be a defense for sadism.

I mean, did England look like she was being forced to grin and bare it? /sic/

of Mumia and Charles Graner? Wonder if Charlie is a Rush fan. AFN pipes that shit into their barracks DAILY...

Affirming 'A' does not necessarily equate to negating 'B' okay?

Saying higher-ups should be investigated and held accountable does NOT entail clemency for the guys carrying out the orders.

This is--excuse me--a right wing argument. Well, it's not even an argument really, just a distraction technique. "Following orders is no excuse! This was established at Nuremburg!"

Well, no sh** sherlock. But can I beg we keep something else in mind (two thoughts at once--how shocking!)? Yes, "obeying orders is no excuse," but that does NOT preclude asking

If they WERE following orders,

Who was giving the f***ing orders???

Sorry to be so exasperated. But why is this such a difficult concept?

They're actually doing the "right" thing vs. being Bush patsies.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0518/p02s02-uspo.html
For these vets, Senate abuse probe is personal

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This phalanx of Republican senators - John Warner of Virginia, John McCain of Arizona, Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, and Susan Collins of Maine - are at the front lines of a bid to pursue the Iraq prison abuse scandal as far up the chain of command as it needs to go.

While powerful GOP leaders in the House have held to a minimum investigation or even talk of the scandal on their side of the Capitol, the Senate Armed Services panel, chaired by Senator Warner, is planning a wide range of hearings, including some with top US officials in Iraq. It's a perilous tack for a majority party heading into a presidential election year.

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For Senator Warner, the decision to "get at the facts" of prison abuse, "no matter where they lead," was a deeply personal one. He was shocked both by the vicious character of the abuse and breakdown of regular order, including the failure of the Pentagon to let the panel know it was an issue - even though his panel met with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld just hours before images of torture in Abu Ghraib prison were released.

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Warner says it's as serious a case of dereliction of duty as he's ever seen in the military..... Senator Graham, a reserve officer of the Air Force Judge Advocate General Corps, is a freshman on the Armed Services panel but is quickly emerging as one of the sharpest interrogators in the GOP lineup. "Most senators will stay if they know he's the next questioner," says a top GOP aide.

Seems that the military is offering deals to the grunts.
If the grunts drop the "I was following orders" mantra and say that they came up with the "hi-jinks" on their own, no torture folks just playin' 'round, that they will recieve lighter sentencing.