Charlie Chan Movies were my first exprience with Asian-Americans!

It was a "POSITIVE" experience. OMG how I wanted to be one of Charlies kids. I could have gone to Yale, Harvard, Skidmore or Amherst looking at how bright and intelligent his kids were.

That "Charlie" was a famous detective outwitting all those "Wasps-Whitebreads" with his knowledge of Confusious and his more than "Sherlock/Sherlock" witticisms about looking for clues and the conclusions just pointed out to me that "Charlie" reigned supreme over the "Colonialist Detectives" in my frame of reference.

I wanted to be "CHAN!" Second best...I wanted to be one of his "hip" (for the time) kids.

I can't believe that "Asian-Americans" still see his movies as "Sterotypes of some racicis bias against "A-A."

How odd it is that when one is allowed to put something out in film, that folks will "jump on it" years later and trash it. When, the truth of it, was that it inspired folks to look up to some in those series and allowed them to have hope that "learning, intelligence and investigation" are so important for us all to develop. "Critical Thinking?"

Charlie Chan movies gave me some "philosphy and an intro to "Critical Thinking" when I was a little kid.

I will always be greatful for those "re-runs" as opposed to the CRAP our kids today are exposed to! Racist? Chinese Minstrel Boy? Give me a Break!

since you brought it up in a reply to me earlier. I can understand how you liked it, but I wish you could understand why Asians and Asian-Americans are bothered by the hackneyed stereotypes.

Kind of like the shuffling black minstrels in the old Shirley Temple movies. We don't think harm was meant by having those characters...but we wince when we see them today.

Tell me how the Chan movies portrayed Asians as "hackneyed stereotypes?"

Did you read my post?

movies too. In fact, I call my sons no.1 son, no.2 son and no.3 son...when they write me a note, they'll sign it by the number.<G> They know where the designation comes from.

Enjoyed Chan movies when I was a kid, recall them fondly today. Don't sweat it.

Steppen Fetchit can be entertaining to, if you're a kid.

a Marathon. Guess What! They held my interest after all these years. And, I didn't see anything other than a beard that might have been a "pastie." :D

You wanted to be a white actor in heavy makeup with a fake fu manchu mustache talking in a fake accent?

:D How crude of you to post that. If you read my post, you were really trying to "fun" me.

Go watch a Chan movie and write down everything he says. I did this once for a film I made. When I was done all I had was a list of fortune cookie sayings. No joke. All with the typical opening..."Confuscious say..." delivered by a fat Dutch actor playing a Rice Queen.

It reeked in the same way that Doris Day's portrayal of the cute-as-a-button-WASP-American-girl-next-door-that-you'd-take-home-to-mother reeked. Only Doris at least was a woman. And white.

To many Asians, Charlie Chan is as insulting as Stepinfetchit is to African Americans.

And David Carradine, Mr Phony Kung-Fu. Well, at least there they passed up the chance for Bruce Lee and lived to regret their utterly gutless decision.

Sorry to be so strident on the issue, but if you examine more thoroughly how Asians have been presented in Hollywood films, you will find a very disturbing pattern. Asians have largely been depicted as the yellow peril, as inscrutable, foreign. Mostly mocked, stereotyped, and discriminated against. Charlie Chan is not a culture hero. He was a white man. An Asian American hero? How about the Chinese who built the railroads? Or the Japanese unit who was the most decorated unit of WW2? I know several of theose veterans. They liberated Buchenwald.

Charlie Chan? He's a fortune cookie.

He is far preferable to anything else currently out there in terms of Hollywood portrayals of Asians.

I would take Charlie Chan over the far less flattering Jackie Chan character anyday. There's nothing wrong with having a slight accent if every other aspect of the character is positive. I don't understand why other Asian-Americans would be so hung up about Cahrlie's slightly accented, otherwise fluent and well-spoken English.

Charlie's accent was barely detectable and he at least spoke good English. Jackie on the other hand, sounds like he just got off the boat whenever he opens his mouth. On top of acting like a total baffoon, Jackie's English is barely comprehensible. Unlike Jackie, Charlie Chan is a character that the audience can respect and take seriously instead of mocking/laughing at.

What's more, Charlie was often depicted alongside his handsome, Americanized sons, who spoke flawless English and helped him to solve cases. I would trade them for Jackie Chan and Jet Li anyday!

through MY eyes as a child in the South who didn't know any Asian-Americans and my first view was Charlie Chan Movies.

If I believed what you say then why didn't I grow up hating Asian-Americans? Why in College did I try to take classes in other cultures and read much of Confuscious sayings as just as I read other philosophers.

Charlie's "fortune cooke" character was not a "Minstrel Boy" or "Coolie pulling a "rickshwaw" with a straw hat. He was a world traveler who went to Honolulu and other exotic (to a child) places and his kids were smart and educated.

In your post you say he was a bad example, but I say he was a good example for children who watched the re-runs in places where they weren't exposed to Asian-Americans.

Why do we differ? :shrug: It was postivie for me in every way I've tried to give you examples, yet you deny that I had a positive opinion of Asian=Americans from watching Charlie Chan when that was the only exposure I would have had until early adulthood? Charlie made me want to read and know more about Asian Culture. Why is that wrong?

:D I did....

Because it was against the law to bring a wife from China. Only single men were allowed to immigrate. And those authentic Chinese sons of Charlie's? Paper sons claiming kinship on paper in order to get through customs.

Anyway, I don't really despise Charlie. I despise seeing myself and others depicted as whites think Asians should look or act.

Some of the more memorable "Asian" roles:

The bucktoothed landlord Mickey Rooney played in "Breakfast at Tiffany's"...

Madame Gin Sing the Dragon Lady in "Shanghai Express" with the wicked and degenerate mixed blood daughter...

Bloody Mary in "South Pacific" who would sell her daughter to the American officer...

The wicked, inscrutable "Fu Man Chu" seeking to dominate the world and deflower the white virgins preferably at the same time...

The Madame Butterfly killing herself for love of the American sailor Pinkerton... Okay, I'll quit.

You can promote Charlie Chan as an example of a positive Asian role model, but I only see a white guy making fun of my mother's accent. I see a movie that makes me feel invisible. I felt that way when I was a kid. I feel that way today.

I 'm not trying to wreck your transformative experience with the Wisdom of the Orient in the person of Charlie Chan, but as the great sage himself would say: "There's one born every minute."

I shall remain inscrutable as to the meaning.

And The Real McCoys.

Not the same at all! Just the dialog was enough to say you can't compare to the Chan movies. :grr:

"Wagon Train," "On the Range" "BossMan" stereotypes? :D

You are being a "thread disrupter," Mr. David!

I thought you were kidding about Charlie Chan. You were, right?

being "purists" and "elitists."

Here, one of your own, ME says that Charlie Chan movies increased my awareness and sensitivity to Asian Culture and made me want to learn more and some come and say: "Oh No! How could you look at this White Actor playing a Rickshaw Coolie Hatted, Minstrel Type Stereotype of an Asian American and want to really like or learn about Asian-Americans from this!

You must be STUPID, KOKO! You ACTUALLY LIKED CHAN MOVIES? Aren't you showing how naive or racist you are in your views. Or maybe you are just ignorant?

Do you understand what I'm getting at? Although, many like to tease me for being "earnest," thank god I'm not myopic :D

that you enjoyed the movies. It is certainly true that they weren't really vile hateful racist movies. But that is a separate issue from the question of whether it was appropriate to stereotype Chinese people with this white actor--and it wasn't, case closed.

about other cultures. How like those folks on that other site who can't look beyond their own stereotypes.

Charlie Chan was not representative of ANY Asian culture. Whatever you THINK you learned was a product of pure Hollywood racism.

is not an appropriate way to "seek knowledge" about other cultures.

:kick:

and the familiy known as the real mccoys.

goddamit pepino, goddamit little luke!

He was NOT an Asian American.

Jaysus! An actor is an actor. What about the kids. Are you complaining that they weren't "Pure Chinese?" Do you know their genetic make up from their DNA.

I give credit to the producers for finding good actors. Warner Olandt was my favorite. :D

had all male actors?

the 16th century with the 20th century?

Women weren't *allowed* to act on stage then.

A white guy playing an asian guy is NOT keeping with the character.

And sorry, Shakespeare being forced to have all male casts in his plays 400 years ago does not equate to the racist act of using a white actor with stereotypical makeup portraying an asian when there were asian actors available and no laws against it.

and they had prominent co-starring roles in the Charlie Chan series.

One of the only shows that depicted real asians in a non-stereotupical manner. With the exception of the main character, many roles on the show were played by real Asians!

Many roles were played by real Asians! They were so progressive! It's like they had real live elephants at the circus!

Subservient asexual sons who sprang out of nothing.

One of the sons dated a cute Chinese girl on the show and the other one flirted with and went out with a white girl!

the fact that perhaps they couldn't find a good actor to play Chan, but they could for his kids.

That as a kid, I didn't know the difference in seeing the re-runs seems to escape those of a "purist" mentality who drive the term "Political Correctness" to such an extreme that it obscures the point of my post.

Sigh...Thanks for mentioning that.

I am not a particularly politically correct person, but I am half-Chinese and have been the subject of anti-Chinese racism from people who probably had as much exposure to Chinese people as you did when you watched Charlie Chan. To this day, I still get stereotyped as someone who must be good at math or kung fu--no these are not the worst stereotypes in the world, but no one likes being pigeon-holed. And I don't particularly enjoy watching some white guy with slanty-eye makeup grinning like a fool and talking about Confucious.

Warner Oland, I believe, was a Swede.

Up until the 60s, Hollywood was reluctant to cast authentic Asians in movies featuring Asian characters. I've read where they considered Asians too timid to be good actors.

Anna May Wong desperately wanted to play the main character in The Good Earth, but the role went to Luise Rainer. Jennifer Jones played a Chinese woman in Love Is a Many-Splendored Thing. In The King and I, Rita Moreno, a Puerto Rican, was cast as a Thai.

It seems strange now that Al Jolson, Eddie Cantor, and others performed in blackface, as did even some black performers, exaggerating their features.

Lots of these stereotypical movies/shows are very entertaining. I know blacks who loved Amos & Andy. I watched it as a kid and thought it was funny. I'm sure the actors were grateful for the work at the time. Today, though, it's a different story.

It could be said that programs such as I Love Lucy were demeaning to women, depicting them as silly, scheming housewives whose husbands had to set them straight.

and they had prominent co-starring roles in the Charlie Chan series.

One of the only shows that depicted real asians in a non-stereotupical manner. With the exception of the main character, many roles on the show were played by real Asians!

being "purists" and "elitists."

Here, one of your own, ME says that Charlie Chan movies increased my awareness and sensitivity to Asian Culture and made me want to learn more and some come and say: "Oh No! How could you look at this White Actor playing a Rickshaw Coolie Hatted, Minstrel Type Stereotype of an Asian American and want to really like or learn about Asian-Americans from this!

You must be STUPID, KOKO! You ACTUALLY LIKED CHAN MOVIES? Aren't you showing how naive or racist you are in your views. Or maybe you are just ignorant?

Do you understand what I'm getting at? Although, many like to tease me for being "earnest," thank god I'm not myopic :D

"You must be STUPID, KOKO! You ACTUALLY LIKED CHAN MOVIES? Aren't you showing how naive or racist you are in your views. Or maybe you are just ignorant?"

:D There, does that make you feel better?

Having a bit more understanding, empathetic and progressive mentality would.

:-)'s and Peace to you!

Of Asian Americans who are disenfranchised and discriminated against due to stereotypical and racist portrayals in the past and present.

I expect this kind of shit on FR, not here.

And attitudes like yours do not help either.

I enjoyed Charlie Chan pictures, too, and learned from them. They were fun pictures. I just wish Hollywood had hired authentic Asian actors instead of applying makeup to "acceptable" American/European types.

:)

from those movies and get over whether they were PC or not. That's my point Kathy. But, I understand what you say, and knew you weren't dissing me.

that even though the portrayal of Chinese people was not really horrid in the movies, it was still wrong?

children? They were actors who got paid. Do you question every movie you go to for it's authenticity? I assume not, or you wouldn't ever go to see any movie made in Hollywood.

Hypocracy!

Do you even know what hypocrisy means? Considering that I haven't lauded any other films in this thread, it is literally impossible for me to be hypocritical.

I don't give two craps about authenticity, for that matter. I did not enjoy people making slanty-eyes at me and talking in singsong on the schoolbus as a kid, and I would prefer to keep stereotypes, Charlie Chan included, to a minimum.

In any case, you seem far too pleased with yourself to consider anyone else's opinion so I'll leave you to your AMC reruns. Cheers.

it's no different than an actor playing a Jew with a big hook nose and being good with his money.

Frankly, as someone whose introduction to Asian-Americans was through those movies, you are in no position to make a claim that Charlie Chan is completely benign. I'm more than thrilled that you enjoyed the movies, but that doesn't make them any less stereotyped drivel.

you're right in pointing out to me that you think I might not have learned in my adult years that the actors who played Chan were White?

Which is more important? To expose kids to a different culture where they like the characters and want to learn more, or to make sure that all is perfectly authentic when in fact they might not have been able to find an Asian actor for the Lead Role who would get folks into the theater?

to expose impressionable minds to stereotypes of an entire group of people--things like Charlie Chan are where the idea of the "inscrutable chinaman" came from. This is not about political correctness or sensitivity or any of that other bullshit.

and the others here who are howling about Charlie being played by a white man.

I seem to have done okay. I've had a good life working for liberal/progressive causes and I'm involved in my political community.

I haven't burned any crosses on lawns or spit on Asians. I don't know what you want from me? But, then I don't know what life you've led that you are so Politically Correct you can't see through your fogged vision?

:shrug:

so why are you accusing me of being "so Politically Correct you can't see through your fogged vision?" Techincally, that's a personal attack and against the rules at DU. I've been trying to have a discussion with you about a topic that *you* brought up and instead of actually defending yourself, you've begun resorting to simply attacking people who disagree with you...that's pretty weak.

I don't know whether you've grown up ok or not...you say you have, but you also don't seem to have enough empathy to understand why a real live Chinese person (unlike Charlie Chan) might be bothered by seeing this white person (and I'm half-white too, so don't go there) prancing around in yellow makeup. Let's just say it's not how I'll raise *my* kids.

My point being that if you're trying to convince us all that you're a well-adjusted person because of or in spite of Charlie Chan, you're not doing a very good job.

I'm baffled as to why someone would say that about him. As far as I'm concerned, he spoke and was treated equally to any white character on the show. The fortune-cookie lines were kept to a minimum and when they were used, they were used in good taste.

and tony randall as dr. lao, and christopher lee as fu manchu.

much worse than Charlie Chan

Marlon Brando in Teahouse of the August Moon.

or karloff as fu manchu too.

and who could forget the hat throwing guy in 007, oddjob.

But, I loved the movie as did many others. And BTW, the really Holly GoLightly from Truman Capote's Novel was Southern. Audrey Hepburn didn't play her as Southern.

But, still it was a wonderful movie for many of us, and the Johnny Mercer tune "Moon River" was a huge hit. Mercer, at least WAS Southern.

:D

Charlie Chan is just a less offensive version of the same thing...

But, her Landlord WAS a sterotype. But, I'm not trashing the movie, you are...and by inference trying to compare Tiffany's with the Chan Movies.

I can't watch Breakfast at Tiffany's without cringing.

How is Mickey Rooney a stereotype while Charlie Chan is not, pray tell?

playing a role as a detective. He didn't wear buck teeth or squint his eyes up. Or I should say "they" because there was more than one Chan.

He was intelligent and outwitted all the whiteys around him! Holly GoLightly's Landlord was a distraction from the whole movie and from Capote's Novel which it was based on.

I don't know why that character was there and portrayed the way Rooney did it, but that was bad.

So, do you see where I'm coming from here? Rent some Chan movies. You will be surprised even though you don't want to be.

and yes, I actually do see where you're coming from though I disagree with you. Why you think I haven't seen the Charlie Chan films I couldn't tell you, and it's a bit of a laugh considering I've seen pretty much all of them and have spent some time as a film critic.

know how to explain it any more than that.

is available. It's hard to understand how you see "yellow face" in a black and white film. But, I assume you haven't seen the Chan movies to have said "yellow face."

I mean a white dude faking his conception of a Chinese accent, and the eye makeup and stuff.

If you can't understand why stereotypes (even positive ones) are annoying to the stereotyped, I guess I'm at a loss to explain it to you. I don't think you are a bad person for liking these movies, I'm just trying to explain why an Asian person might not like it. It's not worth continuing with this.

really stereotypical shows like this, such as in your case. But the "yellowface" thing basically explains why it is so annoying/offensive to many Asians. Like it's very funny for white folks like Jerry Lewis to scrunch up his eyes and make some kind of buckteeth face.

The analogy would be if you were from West Virginia and you lived someplace where you had to watch "The Beverly Hillbillies" all the time and people felt that "Deliverance" pretty much represented what all your people were like.

about with "sterotyping." Ever see those "Billy Bob Movies with the Confederate Flag waving and the accents exaggerated by folks who never spent a day in the South?

How about Vivien Leigh playing Scarlett O'Hara when she was British and I could name slews of other actors portraying Southerners in a stereotypical demeaning way. But if the movie was a good one...who cared? Plot and Acting. They win every time.

jeez there were some awful stereotypes

the opinions and impressions most people form of Charlie Chan comes from what they've read or heard about it, not from actually watching it.

Which is sort of understandable, considering that the show is rarely shown on television anymore. People just read about the yellowface, the old Chinese main character, and think, oh it must be a very bad, negative portrayal of Asians!

I admit that I used to assume the same negative things about charlie Chan but that was before I was fortunate enough to catch a rare showing of it on AMC. (I wonder why it isn't shown on AMC more often!)

I was pleasantly surprised by how it turned out to be the complete opposite of what I assumed. It doesn't deserve the bad rap at all! And race issues aside, Charlie Chan was just a very well-made, intelligent and thoroughly entertaining show to watch!

"Most Asians who criticize Charlie Chan haven't even seen it"

You have zero basis for that. I'm half-Chinese and have most certainly seen the films (and even enjoyed them for what they were.)

I'll say again, I'm half-Japanese. And caught my share of Pearl Harbor and ching-chong-chinaman crap when I was a kid. But I liked Charlie Chan movies just fine. Still do.

never really saw a Chan movie, but were indoctrinated to see them as bad.

The fact that some can't tell real stereotypes where it's hateful and causes folks to demean or make fun of folks from "actors, plot, storyline" and "entertainment," speaks more to their lack of insight than ours...

so it's not a real "stereotype" if it's "entertainment"

I'm going to log off now before I break any DU rules.

:puke:

In some ways Charlie Chan did empower asian americans...however the bad definitely outweighed the good.

And keep in mind Charlie Chan was NEVER played by an asian.

he/she just doesn't care or have any empathy for those of us who have actually experienced anti-chinese racism.

If you met me, we would get along because I would want to know everything about you and your background. I would say "sir_captain" where did you grow up, where did your family come from and what do you think about things. Has your heritage influenced you and how. I would say: "Let me tell you about myself and when I was a little kid and what I thought about Chinese Culture from Chan Movies because they made me so curious about the world out there beyond my very insular upbrining where everyone was just like me."

If I mentioned Chan would you then cut me off in the conversation and berate me with how I was too stupid to see how Chan movies had warped my mind and that I really should dislike you because of seeing those movies?

Can you really see what I'm getting at here? I'm trying really hard to tell you.

favorite actors. I love movies about China. One night I'll do a post about this, so all of you can tell me which ones are the most authentic.

But, maybe as a "whitey" some of you think I shouldn't be watching any of those movies. I don't have the background in the culture to make an observation? :shrug:

Many Asian Americans who grew up when Charlie Chan movies were popular experienced a lot of racism and stereotyping because of these movies. All too common would be the racist who would try to imitate Charlie Chan's pidgin English in front of Asian Americans, or expect him to talk that way.

When Bruce Lee movies were the rage, despite the polularity, the same thing would happen, and often times Asian would be stereotyped as automatically being an expert in Kung Fu.

Charlie Chan and Mr. Moto movies bring back a lot of these painful memories, and I'm sure a lot of Asian Americans would like these to be forgotten.

It's a lot like Uncle Remus - although his character might have been a *good guy*, the stereotype is still there of the plantation African American. And as a result, the memories are no less painful.

Whether you like Jet Li or not is really irrelevant. Sadaam Hussein liked the Godfather movies, but do you think he went out of his way to protect Italian American soldiers from harm? (strange example, I'll admit, but it's the best I could think of.)

everyone who sees the same move comes away with the same impression. My post was trying to get to that. I kept trying to bring it back to that in my comments.

For every rotten kid or adult who made fun of folks because of Asian movies, how many were like me, who wanted to learn more? Is there a way to make your bad experiences go away? No. Is there any way that folks who teased and made fun of me when I landed in NYC after growing up the South could be made to see things differently because they assumed I ate fried chicken and was dumb because I said "Yes Ma'm and No Sir? There were others who were interested in my background and curious and asked me questions about my background. Does it mean that I should remember with anger only the folks who thought I hated black people had a confederate flag in my apartment and was dumb because I talked funny and that I should tell folks that all Southern Sterotype movies are bad and those who go see them will get racist ideas from them? There would be an awful lot of Southern Stereotyp Movies to ban if I did that.

My point is that all of us have hurts. I think the Mickey Rooney character in Breakfast at Tiffany's is a stereotype which can cause pain. But, when actors play intelligent characters how does that do harm?

We are all harmed if our backgrounds are different by people who make fun. I like to think that that shows their deficiencies and not ours.
But, being made fun of as a Southerner in the North gave me alot of insight into what stereotypes can do. We get through it. And, try to look for the good. I felt the Chan movies were unfairly maligned because they helped me grow beyond my very insular culture. I felt my views were worth defending here.

this thread offensive


......

OH MAMMY!!!!! Why'd ya' start this thread, Mammy?


.....

C'mon let's stop arguing and let's smoke 'em peace pipe

That your position is correct IS really fucking offensive.

You are not Asian. It is not for you to say what should or should not be offensive to Asians.

Charlie Chan is a fucking stereotype, one that fostered the notion that all Asians speak in heavily accented, fortune cookie truisms. All cinema of that era dealt in Asian stereotypes, from the evil Fu Manchu to the exotic Suzie Wong. It was simple Hollywood-style exploitation and profiteering, and it was generally done in a manner that poked fun and ridiculed, that laughed "at" much more so than laughed "with."

There is racist love, and there is racist hate. Regardless, it was a stereotype of an oppressed group perpetuated by the dominant culture. The fact that it was supposedly a "positive" stereotype is less relevant, simply because the dominant culture often tries to prop up certain oppressed groups at the expense of other oppressed groups, when it suits their interests. Think about labor and immigration patterns, for example. When Asians were viewed as a threat, you had the Yellow Peril. When they were needed as cheap labor, they were a hard-working curiosity. Witness the treatment of Chinese and Japanese in the pre- and post- WWII era.

Think about it.

DTH

folks find offense because it's so painful and offensive that "dialog & discussion" are censored?

Isn't that the Right Wing Repug Attitude? Don't try to have "opposing views" come together for discussion...just cut off all dialog which is offensive to some ethnic group?

As I posted on this thread. I was born in the South of the US. I've been "stereotyped" by Hollywood for decades. Should I be here trashing
back at you...because you didn't understand what the Fuck my post was about?

How much more "predjudiced" can DU'ers be than what is on this post?

Think about it? Hey...Southerners are stereotyped as "lynchers, Confed flag flyers, talk funny and are all Religious Fundamentalists.

I'm not...but I want to talk about it. I'm suspicious of folks who immediately tar someone with a Racist/Ethnic Trash Brush when they don't have an awareness of the "shoes the poster has walked in."

But, then I'm a Christian....not fundie...and try to have empathy...

So go at me for that...because you will. :D But, loving discussion I hope you DO REPLY. FGS if we don't "DISCUSS" here then what the hell is DU about, really?

:shrug: no matter how heated the arguments...why not?

or prevent you from discussing anything. Frankly, several in this thread, including myself, have tried to discuss with you our issues with the Charlie Chan movies, and you have made no effort to see the issue from our point of view.

"we must never discuss what some"
Posted by KoKo01

folks find offense because it's so painful and offensive that "dialog & discussion" are censored?"

No one ever said we shouldn't talk about Charlie Chan--we should just talk about it for what it was--a time in the history of Hollywood when Chinese were stereotyped and aped in a way that would thankfully not be considered appropriate today.

"As I posted on this thread. I was born in the South of the US. I've been "stereotyped" by Hollywood for decades. Should I be here trashing
back at you...because you didn't understand what the Fuck my post was about?"

No one has trashed you, and we all understand what the "fuck" your post is about. We just don't agree with you.

"I'm not...but I want to talk about it. I'm suspicious of folks who immediately tar someone with a Racist/Ethnic Trash Brush when they don't have an awareness of the "shoes the poster has walked in."

Who has tarred you as a racist? Oh, right...no one.

Look Koko, I don't know how to say this to you any other way--you're just wrong. The fact that you like Jet Li movies is irrelevant. Films like the Charlie Chan ones helped perpetuate stereotypes, and there is never any excuse for that. No, watching them didn't turn you into some kind of monster, but that doesn't make it ok. If you want to continue discussing this, you're going to have to start thinking about this a bit more critically instead of simply attacking everyone who disagrees with you.

Cheers.

I have no power to censor you. Moreover, if you actually took the time to READ what I wrote, I specifically indicated that it's your ATTITUDE that is objectionable, much more so than the content of your opinion, which I understood to a "T"...mostly because I've seen opinions like yours dozens of times before.

Charlie Chan is not some harmless, innocent portrayal of Asians, just like portraying Asians as a monolithic "model minority" today is not some harmless, innocent portrayal. There are very real consequences and ramifications, and few to none of them are positive.

If you don't feel like being offended by stereotypes involving your own community, then fine. But don't you dare start telling my community what we should and should not be offended by. That's for us to decide, not you.

DTH

as you see it. :shrug:

I couldn't have said it better. KoKo01, I think you're getting a bit defensive and you seem to be jumping to conclusions... DTH never said that you, as a non-Asian, aren't entitled to your opinion; but that you have no say for the opinions of Asians. This issue is not black and white (*insert groan*) and there is room for debate--so try to listen before reacting, okay?

were there replying. Amazingly, KoKo was one of the main folks keeping that one alive last time. Another thing.

THe reason he started this one was because he saw me posting and we talked about what teed him off about me as a "newbie" poster--it was the Charlie Chan subject.

"Another roundeye bites the dust" a quote from a Peter Sellers movie.

"Pink Panther Movies," btw, Bransonfuu. We haven't gotten to those.

But, if I wasn't interested in culture..of all types why would I go back to the Chan Movies.

Have you even thought about where I'm coming from aside from the "stereotype?

:shrug:

you hate those movies....but if you decided to stretch a little further and reach for real modern day understanding of Asians, Asian-Americans, Asian cultural history, etc. you might find yourself moving past the one-dimensional characterizations.

But then again, we all have our nostalgia. I used to watch old Tarzans, Ma and Pa Kettles, and Abbot and Costello in my chilhood days. These days, I'd probably laugh at how bad some of it was but I'd probably agree some of it really is entertaining.

odd for you to say. You think I spend my life watching old Charlie Chan movies and don't know any "Asians" in my real life?

Whoa!

stereotypes of Asian-Americans? I love those movies, too. But, because of Sellars not his "Oriental" friend whom he "sparred with" though his movies...which was a HUGE "tongue in cheek" sterotype...but was it "sophisticated enough" to get a pass?