PHOTOS of IRAQI MURDERED IN PRISON IN IRAQ - Spiegel Magazine

Germany.
With withness testimony.
The pictures show a murder victim (very shocking) and testimony in German. Sorry, I cannot translate the article but you can see that the pictures and testimony in the foreign press are even worse than the ones we see here in the USA (revolting and inhumane as they are).

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,300791,00.html

hang tight a few minutes.

First lines, literal translation (and some seat of the pants lol):

Eye-witness describes death by US torture in Iraq

Last Friday Spiegel TV reporter Helmar Buechel interviewed the Iraqi Abid Hamed Abid, in regards to how his fellow prisoner Asad Abdul Karim Abdul Jalil died after torture by US soldiers in the US base (prison?) al-Asad. MIRROR ON-LINE ONE documents the easily shortened interview.

Spiegel TV: Do you remember the day on which Asad was brought?

Abid Hamed Abid: The exact date, at which Asad was brought, I cannot remember. But at this time I already was for 25 days in detention. On that day they brought three people, to one of them were Asad. I stood as last in my row. When Asad beside me stood, I asked him, from where he comes. It answered: My family comes from Dulab. Everyone, which speaks in the prison, is punished immediately and struck. We said Asad: Is quiet! Do not speak! After five minutes they got it then and into a single cell brought. On the second day they began to cross-examine it. If they cross-examined someone, it began always with the fact that they extracted two days long the sleep from it. Also otherwise they did not let the people sleep there during the day. Normally one may sleep starting from twelve o'clock at night and around five or six is in the morning waked. Those however, which should be cross-examined, one did not permit at all to sleep at night - two days be enough, neither on the day, nor at the night.

Does the article mention anything about what appears to be a death certificate (among the images)? It's in English, but hard to read. I think I see the word "cancer."

"Totenschein des Opfers: Angeblich im Schlaf gestorben"

The victim's death certificate: Supposedly died in his sleep.

'preciate it.

the little box at the bottom of the page has some info on the death certificate. It says basically that the American army issued a death certificate that Jalil's death occurred naturally and expands that he "died in his sleep". The death certificate was issued by Capt. Luis A Santiago. About five corpses from US safekeeping are brought in weekly to Baghdad and Iraqi pathologists are forbidden to engage in their own investigations as soon as the US presents a death certificate, even if it obviously is falsified. I'll look for more info. My mom is going to listen to the video later. She understand the spoken word but can't read German. I'm pretty pathetic at both. lol

I do not accept that these are just innocent young frontline cannon fodder following orders. You can REFUSE to follow. Everyone in the chain of command AND those who actually carried this out deserve to be sentenced and not just slapped on the wrists.

instead of those who were in charge. i guess these are the folks my mom always talked about when she said 'if they jump off a bridge, will you do it too?'

I see pictures, but can't find a video. Can you post a link?

rtsp://shared.streaming.telefonica.de/spiegel/video/4238.rm

One can't wait until one of their Sons or Daughters is captured in an upcoming * war and is subjected to the same.

"died in sleep"

But bush has moral clarity!!!!

lower third of DEATH certificate.....

"died in sleep"


http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,355609,00.jpg

Spiegel TV: Did you see that with your own eyes?

Abid: Yes, with my own eyes. There were no walls, rather mesh and barbed wire between prisoners. And that all happened directly next to us.

Spiegel TV: Who took part in that? How many soldiers and officers?

Abid: I was not able to distinguish officers or soldiers. They all looked equal to me. Whether you see a soldier or an officer - everyone is the same. But there were many. The listeners were about ten to fifteen. Those came and fetched the arrested ones. And not only Asad! Asad is the only who died. Many were tortured.

Spiegel TV: Can you describe the appearance of the torturer? Can you name names?

Abid: If you look at the Americans, they look all the same. You cannot differentiate one from another. Naturally, we do not know the names. They get the people from the detention, torture them one day, one night and a further day, and return them then from the interrogation.

Spiegel TV: Were the listeners Americans?

Abid: Yes, they were Americans

Spiegel TV: What was the worst type of torture that you see?

Abid: That was the kind of torture which we did not see directly, their traces we could recognize by the bodies - about, if the people wore only trousers (the rest of this sentence I don't understand). There I saw once that Asads left side was blue and full bloody discharges and very red. I faced it directly. It harmed not only me. All arrested ones suffered also, if they saw that someone looked in such a way. Some people returned from the torture and (don't understand the word here) only pure blood. That went seven, eight days so before they were removed..

n/t

Is there a way for us to make this stop? There just has to be, do you have any ideas.
PM or call me.

Spiegel TV: Did you see how Asad died?

Abid: Yes. (Not terribly sure of the translation here, but it does suggest that the torture was worse than normal and Asad had no strength). The single cells had doors with lattice wire. Asad was tied up with handcuffs, and they chained him with hands stretched upwards at the lattice so that he remained standing upright. But his body was already too weak from the torture. He struggled on the other hand until finally his soul left its body and he died.

I don't even know what to say

Did you see how Asad died?

Yes, Asad couldn't sit normal anymore because the strength of the torture.. They came, sat him straight up, but he fell again and again. The prison cells had doors with lattice wire. Asad was shackled with handcuffs with his hand up so he had to stand up straight. But his body was so weak from torture. He was fighting against it, but finally his soul left his body and he died!!

BTW, while I'm trying to help with this translation, I'm crying.
I want to do something by helping with this because I can't vote yet (Green-card holder)

"street"German for urinating
"Some people came back after torture and urinated only pure blood"

He says "Some people pissed pure blood after returning from torture."

Jesus.

Some people returned from the torture and (don't understand the word here) only pure blood. That went seven, eight days so before they were removed..

...returned from the torture and urinated only pure blood.

According to the death certificate, he died in his sleep.

may I add, without injury.

Right Zell?

This is what I meant the last week or so when I said I wanted ALL the pictures released. I've paid for this, whether I wanted it to happen or not. Let me see what I got for my money. Because I want some people to pay for doing this in my name.

"I said I wanted ALL the pictures released. I've paid for this, whether I wanted it to happen or not. Let me see what I got for my money. Because I want some people to pay for doing this in my name."

I am copying that one and using it myself. EVERYONE HERE should - wording it their way, but in one form or other getting THIS message out. How DARE they withhold this from us? It's been done in our name, funded by the taxes they claim they hate to have to extract from us. "Let me see what I got for my money." JUST EXCELLENT. Besides, you just merely say the word "money" and you'll get somebody's attention over there on the Dark Side.

"Let me see what I got for my money."

Best argument point EVER. BEST. EVER.

1 (800) 839 - 5276. THIS is what you slam back at the republi-CONS who'd seek to wrap all this up in a nice, tidy, precision-folded Aemrican flag. "Let me see what I got for my money."

Thank you for your kind words, calimary. Use anything you see on any of my posts in whatever fashion suits you -- I make no copyright claims.

Next stop Nazi Germany. That's PNAC-occupied Iraq.

brutal murders, tortures, rapes, etc. by this country. Everything is a cover up, nobody will be charged for most of these atrocities. I want to vomit.

Spiegel Did you get the impression that the Americans enjoyed behaving this way? Why did they do it?

Abid If they picked up somebody for interrogation, surely there must have been a motive behind it. It's something within them that we don't understand.

Spiegel How many soldiers took part? Were they white or black?

Abid The Blacks were for the most part guards, and the same ones who watched over us and, at most, pestered us to keep us awake. If for example somebody fell asleep, he would be immediately shaken awake and made to kneel for a quarter or half hour. If he moved, then the punishment would be changed. He would, for instance, be handcuffed again or gagged.

Spiegel How many soldiers were present the day Asad died?

Abid About four. Four came for him. He was totally worn out by the torture during the interrogation. He couldn't eat in the presence of loud blows.* Apparently he was bleeding internally.

Spiegel These four, could you describe them?

Abid They were white. As for the Blacks, they were very hard on us as guards, but I never saw a black one that fetched somebody for interrogation. During the interrogations there were no Blacks. The interrogators were white, exclusively.



*possible typo, or misunderstanding on my part. German-speakers: Could he be saying that he couldn't eat because of the loud blows?

No other commentary, words fail me

so perhaps it should have been "he couldn't eat because of the heavy blows"

"He couldn't eat in the presence of all those beatings"
lauter = all those

It is because of the heavy blows that he suspects that he had internal bleeding

"lauter" in this meaning is hard to translate. It's more like "many".

It means something along "He couldn't eat for the blows" (i.e. because there were so many blows).

Edit: Elf beat me to it. :hi:

:toast:

:toast:

So what can I do ?

but whenever there is something to translate, I will be happy to help

:-)

Asad says at the end of the piece that people came and he was questioned by the Americans about Jaleel's death for two days. He told them everything from the moment the torture started to the instant of Jaleel's death. Asad says that there was a high-ranking general present during the questioning, but he does not know the person's name.

That kind of shit never leaves a person's mind, it's branded in there forever.

Show these freed prisoners, and current prisoners, a photo lineup.

he says that all Americans look alike. lmao

this is horrendous.

Skimming the translations - I did not read/see - was this at Abu Ghraib, or elsewhere?

is the name. Military base/prison?

I don't know anything about the website/source.

http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=9554&TagID=2

geeeeeez. And the house republicans are still screaming that the armed services committee in the Senate is harming the war effort. Completely clueless that the ACTIONS themselves - and the policies that set this in motion is what is harming their precious war effort.

They don't mention the same soldiers as Abu Ghraib. It basically says that the black soldiers were in a large part the torturers and the white men were "overseers".

were all white. :shrug: Is it the translation?

I must be on overload here. :silly:

Still, I don't think this suggests that it's the same six soldiers at this detention center as Abu Ghraib. I don't think they were mobile. I think there was a bunch of them, in all 4 prisons plus the secret Delta Force interrogation center.

that ALL of the problems were related to the small group of "6 or 7 bad apples" - hence the point of my question about this being a different area. I was being facetious.

That is was was written, Blacks were guards, whites where interrogators!

I suspected as much. The pics coming out of Iraq looks like the same sick shit that white people have been doing to blacks for centuries. I figured that the ones culpable were almost entirely white, racist elements in the service.

Not to say that blacks and others are not capable of the same brutality but when I saw those pics I thought it looked familiar; it is a reflection of our country's racist present which always is just a hair's breadth from the surface.

There is a direct relationship between white racism and what is happening in Iraq.

....that more will appear in foreign press who aren't under the BFEE's thumb

<sarcasm>That fella must've been a restless sleeper based on the severe bruising, did he fall out of bed?</sarcasm>

Sick sick shite!

when you have finished? Thank you!!!!!

:puke: Generation "X" here?

Can I put it in front of 3,000,000 people? Yes.

Is that a good thing? Yes.

Did I say thank you? Yes.

And your fucking problem (yet yet yet again) is...?

translation? That's the question... Can you. I'ts the WAY you asked it that was really "offensive." :shrug:

can you help with the second paragraph? There's too many words I don't know.

On the third day..........

I get the gist of it but some of the words are over my head.

The one that starts "Am dritten Tag?"

...on the third day.

.

On the third day, we got picked up for interrogation. When one gets interrogated, one has to stay there the entire day, the following night and another day. At the end of that day they drag you back. When one gets picked up, one can still carry oneself straight up, back one gets dragged over the floor.
When they brought Asad back it seemed almost like a funeral (I,elf think it meant very somber mood).
Usual was, that everybody who did something wrong was tormented the entire day.
We had to stand up the entire day, got water thrown at us or were shackled. Or we had to kneel and were tossed to the floor. Or they they fixed our hands behind our heads and from there fifed to our feet, so that we only could lay on our belly.
And when we got pushed, we turned around like spinning. With that we got tossed water all over, got kicked - one hour, two or three hours long. As long as it pleased them.
Then they gave us some rest,to relax and then they began again.
This is especially what they do to those, they prepared for interrogation.


I hope my Engl. is good enough for you to understand, I was very carefull to translate directly, what Abid Hamed Abid said.

Thank you very much.

On the third day they were brought to interrogation. When one is brought (to interrogation), one stays there the entire day, the following night, and the following day. Then, on the evening of the second day, one is hauled back (the verb schleppen, used here, implies carrying something inanimate and passive such as a sack of potatoes). When one is brought (to interrogation), one can still walk on one’s own; on the way back one is pushed across the floor. When they brought Asad back to his single cell, he looked as if he were already in the grave. It was generally true that anyone who let himself be blamed (a little vague here), was mistreated for the entire day. They let us stand for the entire day with water spraying or chained together. Or we had to kneel and were knocked to the ground. Or they fastened our hands behind our heads with handcuffs and tied our feet so that one can only lay on one’s belly on the ground. And when someone bumps you, you can only spin like a top. Additionally one was sprayed with water and stepped on--for one hour, two, or three hours. As long as it pleased them. Then maybe they left us alone so that one could recover a little and then they started again. They do this especially for those they’re getting ready for interrogation

I couldn't get the funeral sentence right, and the part about spinning.

last chapter, last two question from SPIEGEL to Abid:

.......it was a high leveled General

....... do you know the name?

....... no I don't know



But he will recognize him on pictures that's for sure

I'm sickened.

I don't know a thing about the source, but it looks like the same story with less detail.


US troops tortured prisoner to death

BERLIN: German television reported on Friday that US troops tortured to death an Iraqi prisoner in their custody in January this year and captured the abuse on film.

Spiegel TV said in a statement that it had witness accounts and documents to prove that 47-year-old Asad Abdul Kareem Abdul Jaleel had been killed at the US military base Al Asad west of the town Khan Al Baghdadi.

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Spiegel TV said that US forces had tried to cover up the death of the prisoner at Al Asad by declaring in a report that he had “died in his sleep” in a document signed by pathologist Luis A. Santiago. The death certificate stated that no autopsy had been conducted. But an Iraqi coroner who received the body of the prisoner from US forces told Spiegel TV that man’s body showed “clear signs of torture”.

“The photographs of the corpse, which Spiegel TV has also seen, indicate the man was tortured,” it said, adding that the body also appeared to have undergone an autopsy using “Western methods”. It said the man was a married father of seven, including seven-month-old twins. Employees of the Iraqi medical examination institute in Baghdad told Spiegel TV that they had seen other torture victims among the corpses handed over to them by the International Committee of the Red Cross on behalf of the US military.

more

link added: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/print.asp?page=story_15-5-2004_pg7_38

http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=9554&TagID=2

Iraqi In Custody Tortured To Death

uploaded 16 May 2004

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American troops had previously arrested the respected family patriarch on an open road and taken him to the American military base Al Asad west of the town of Khan al Baghdad. Ostensibly there was suspicion that he belonged to the Iraqi resistance. The soldiers are alleged to have put enormous pressure on Asad Abdul Kareem Abdul Jaleel in the base prison. Another prisoner gave Spiegel TV a detailed description of how the 47 year old was tortured in a sadistic manner for five days. The witness says that the soldiers also took photographs of the abuse.

Asad Abdul Kareem Abdul Jaleel died in US detention on January 9th of this year. However, there are grave doubts about the version that claims his death to have been from natural causes. An Iraqi forensic pathologist who took the body over from the US armed forces confirmed to Spiegel TV in Baghdad that he diagnosed definite torture marks on the body of the deceased. In addition, photos of the deceased confirm that contrary to the US documentation, an autopsy had been performed on the man. The scars on the torso indicate that Western doctors did the autopsy.

Deep Dark Bruises on the Entire Body

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If the suspicious facts against the US troops turn out to be true, the US torture scandal would take a dramatic turn. If the charges hitherto were about violent abuses of prisoners and humiliating methods of interrogation, the investigation would now have to include failure to give assistance, manslaughter, or even murder. The participating soldiers and their commanding officers could be harshly punished, and the US army in Iraq would be exposed to even more hate and desire for revenge than they already are. Although there are already a number of investigations being carried out about unclarified deaths in Iraq, and also in Afghanistan, - the army insists that in none of the cases can the guilt of the soldiers be proven.

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The US Army Remains Silent

About five bodies with US Armed Forces death certificates are handed over every week in Baghdad alone, according to the employees of the Institute. The established practice of the Americans is to declare bodies that come from the prison at Abu Ghuraib as victims of grenade attacks on the camp. This was the case with the bodies of 26 detainees last week, even though only some of the bodies showed injuries typical of grenade attacks, the employees said.


more

http://www.herald.co.zw/index.php?id=31961&pubdate=2004-05-15

Prisoner abuse saga: Blair under pressure to quit

BELEAGUERED British Prime Minister Tony Blair came under increasing pressure to resign yesterday over the unfolding saga of prisoner abuse by British and American soldiers in Iraq as it also emerged that US troops tortured to death an Iraqi prisoner in their custody in January this year and captured the abuse on film.

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German television reported Friday that US troops tortured to death an Iraqi prisoner in their custody in January this year and captured the abuse on film.

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"A fellow prisoner gave Spiegel TV a detailed description how the man was sadistically tortured in the five days after his arrest," the statement said. "US soldiers also took photos of this abuse."

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It said the man was a married father of seven, including seven-month-old twins.

Employees of the Iraqi medical examination institute in Baghdad told Spiegel TV that they had seen other torture victims among the corpses handed over to them by the International Committee of the Red Cross on behalf of the US military.

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Two British Moslems released from Guantanamo Bay were subjected to the same kinds of torture at the US detention camp that Iraqis have suffered at the hands of US troops, their lawyer said Friday.

The alleged abuses at the US holding centre in Cuba for terrorism suspects included being shackled for hours, being made to stand naked, being subjected to snarling dogs and being forced to endure cold temperatures. Their claims emerged as the Bush administration was rocked by undisputed evidence that US troops abused and tortured Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison, near Baghdad. — AFP-Reuters.

Sie nahmen Kopftücher und zerrissen sie in zwei, drei Streifen. Diese Stränge verdrehten sie dann und benutzen sie wie Knebel - wobei zwei Leute jeweils mit aller Kraft an den beiden Enden zogen, so dass sich später quer um den unteren Teil des Gesichts Striemen bildeten, die wie Brandmale aussahen. Die Augen traten dabei aus den Höhlen hervor.

They took headscarves and ripped them to two, three stripes. They twisted those strands and used them like gags – where two people were pulling at both ends with all their force, so that later weals formed across the lower part of the faces, which looked like brandings. During that the eyes emerged from their sockets.

unbelievably worse. Who wants to tell me we aren't living under Nazi rule?

I don't know if I can bear this.