As much as I want to defend the lower ranks, I can't defend Sivits!

trumad

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Fri May-21-04 10:18 AM
Original message

As much as I want to defend the lower ranks, I can't defend Sivits!

There ain't no doubt that Senior Military Intelligence officers instructed these lower ranking soldiers to do what they were doing. And I'll be awfully pissed off if some one high in the chain of command doesn't get court martialed or fired over this....

But with that said... I think that the court martial and imprisonment of Specialist Jeremy Sivits is absolutely appropriate.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

graham67

(732 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Fri May-21-04 10:20 AM
Response to Original message

1. I'm having a hard time...

feeling sorry for any of the ones who are facing courts-martial. I know it goes much higher up the food chain and those should be brought to justice as well, but these guys have to know this shit was just flat-out wrong.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

lazarus

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Fri May-21-04 10:22 AM
Response to Original message

2. my biggest problem

is the fact that he only got one year.

I could accept this if it was a year in an Iraqi prison.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

joeybee12

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Fri May-21-04 10:24 AM
Response to Original message

3. I certainly have a problem with his courtmartial...

...the scary thing is a good percentage of people--who are considered good and decent--would have done the same thing in the same situation. I don't know him personally--he might be a sadist. But I think the odds are that those being courtmartialed are just patsys, who, if they were not put in this type of situation, would have lived decent lives.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

arcane1

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Fri May-21-04 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #3

10. that could be said about pretty much any violent sociopath

or robber, theif, drug dealer, rapist, murderer, etc...

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

wryter2000

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Fri May-21-04 10:25 AM
Response to Original message

4. I don't really see it as either/or

Everyone responsible should be punished.

BTW, I heard on the news that he was the first in his family to graduate from high school. Not that that makes any difference.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

freetobegay

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Fri May-21-04 10:33 AM
Response to Original message

5. He is getting off way to easy!

He is also being used to try to deflect attention from the hugher ups!

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Postman

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Fri May-21-04 10:36 AM
Response to Original message

6. They're ALL guilty, including Bush, Rumsfeld, Myers, et.al.

Now you know why Bush "unsigned" the International Criminal Court treaty.

They are war criminals.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Randers

(252 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Fri May-21-04 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #6

7. "Now you know why Bush "unsigned" the International Criminal Court treaty.

Yeah - that was a bad sign if there ever was one.

I agree. They are all guilty.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Bandit

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Fri May-21-04 10:40 AM
Response to Original message

8. He has turned "states evidence" or the military equivilent

That is the reason he has gotten a much lighter sentence than the others will receive. Supposedly he took pictures but didn't really participate in actual abuse. He named names though and gave detailed accounts. A year in prison and a dishonorable discharge is pretty severe. Remember he will be in a military (federal) prison and those folks there think he is a rat. His life is going to be short I believe. He will learn even more about torture before his day is done.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Loonman

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Fri May-21-04 10:42 AM
Response to Original message

9. He wasn't so tough when he was blubbering away

What a loser.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

leftofthedial

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Fri May-21-04 11:43 AM
Response to Original message

11. culpability clearly goes all the way up the chain of command

enlisted, NCO's, officers, generals, bushgang . . . they're all guilty as sin.

I have no impulse at all to defend or excuse the enlisted people in these pictures. Orders or no orders, they are behaving like monsters.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

troublemaker

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Fri May-21-04 11:55 AM
Response to Original message

12. I wish he had been court-martialed for cooperating in this

cover-up. Everyone else is going to get a good bit more than one year while he gets to turn stoolie.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Solly Mack

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Fri May-21-04 11:59 AM
Response to Original message

13. He got off easy. He should have faced a general court martial

I hold the enlisted fully responsible for their actions. They followed illegal orders and they knew better...when they claim otherwise, they are lying through their sadistic teeth.

Oh, this reaches up high..and in a fair world where things like justice, honor, and integrity actually meant something, the generals would fall, rummy would fall..and Shrub would fall.

I hold them ALL fully responsible for their own actions.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

DU AdBot (1000+ posts)

Wed May 08th 2024, 09:31 AM
Response to Original message

Advertisements [?]

Top

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.