Dean: "Americans have themselves to blame for state of the nation!"

Today at the VT Democratic Convention

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/143/politics/Dean_Americans_have_themselves:.shtml

SNIP..."BARRE, Vt. (AP) The national Democratic Party and those who don't vote must share the blame with President Bush for the state of the nation, former Gov. Howard Dean said Saturday.

''Democracy is not a spectator sport,'' Dean told the state Democratic convention where delegates greeted the one-time presidential candidate with endless waves of applause, whistles, cheers and foot-stomping..."

SNIP...."
''You know what the biggest issue about Iraq is? It is not whether we are there or not,'' said Dean. ''It is whether we were told the truth before we went there, because the commander in chief of the United States military should never send American soldiers to foreign countries to fight without first telling the truth to the American people about why they are going.''

And then, his words lost under the roar of the crowd, Dean threw out questions for Bush:

''Mr. president, where are those weapons of mass destruction?

''Mr. president, where is the evidence that Saddam Hussein had anything to do with al-Qaeda?

''Mr. president, where is the evidence that Saddam Hussein had anything to do with 9/11?''

SNIP..." Dean's speech to the Vermont convention was a homecoming for the man who served as governor for 11 years. And while there were times in his tenure that his relations with some state Democrats, especially among the left, were strained, that was clearly in the past: He received a hero's welcome Saturday and responded in kind by thanking Vermont Democrats for helping his presidential campaign by traveling to Iowa and New Hampshire and he thanked the people of Vermont for giving him his only win in a presidential primary..."END SNIP

Go, Howard Dean! You got your voice back.

He would've easily beaten Bush.

Who knows what will happen with Kerry.

Ye shall be flamed like a pig on a spit!

I'm a Dean fan...love him, miss him. But you're about to get hit by the following: Then why did Kerry beat him so badly in the Primaries!!!

Well, we all know what happened to Dean involved a lot of dirt from the DLC and the media. But Kerry people sometimes get delusional and think people voted for Kerry over Dean because they liked his "message" better. Snort!

Kerry doing well in them does not necessarily mean he would be the best candidate in the GE. I think Dean and Edwards would have done the best against Bush, but that's just IMHO.

Also, I don't mind getting flamed. I'm used to it. :)

I was for Dean even though I ended up voting for Kerry (he had pretty much dropped out by 3/16 when our primaries were held). Anyone who could destroy a lead like that in a few weeks is very smart. People berate Kerry for not being their idea of agressive, but I think this is the same type of mentality that gets people thinking that the war in Iraq was the best way to fight terror - they prefer a big and agressive battle to a smart and strategic one, which as we can see isn't always effective.

Dean went against two of DLC's wrong points - the war and gun control. And for that he got slaughtered by the DLC and the media.

I don't think many of them brought DLC voter guides (if they even exist) to caucus with them. I would agree that the DLC shouldn't have tried to ruin him publicly early on, but this idea of a DLC conspiracy needs to be better-defined to me to believe it.

I know someone from when I was with the Dean campaign who acted as sort of a "precinct captain" in making sure people from a bunch of precincts in Iowa went to caucus - he said a lot of them didn't even bother to show up. There were a lot of weaknesses to the Dean campaign and I think one of them was that while a lot of motivated, active, smart people were involved, it was generally a mile wide and an inch deep. I'm sorry, but Kerry really does seem to have a much more impressive resume than the former governor of Vermont, and a more strategic campaign. Some of this is what's been borrowed from Dean's campaign too.

As far as the media goes, keep in mind that the scream was after the caucus and after his poll numbers slipped. Other than that, I'd have to know what specifically you're talking about. I personally think Sharpton had a lot to do with it, and seeing that he was getting financing and talking points from a Republican, I don't think the DLC had much to do with that.

1. The insult that Dean's support was a mile wide and an inch deep. Puhleeze. Has Kerry even come close to raising the amount of money Dean did?

2. The scream is not the only media-play involved. In fact Dean was smeared before Iowa even voted. He was too angry the talking heads said again and again. His supporters are all young kids! No, 25% were under 25...that leaves 75% that are grown ups.

But whatever, it's done. I just enjoy hearing the man speak again! He sure gives a better speech than Kerry thats for sure.

And it's great that Dean got so many people interested, but I know a lot of people who did that who weren't really that involved in the Dean organization.

Kerry broke Dean's record last quarter, though. It seems to have dropped off a little but that may be because Kerry's ahead and people aren't so worried that they are digging into their wallets.

I don't want to sound like I'm putting down Dean a lot though; like I said in the other post, I don't think we'd have a chance without him. He changed the Democratic party, that's for sure, and both Kerry and the party seem to have borrowed a lot from him. Even look at the new-fangled DNC website compared to the blander one they had a while ago.

You're probably right, but I need something to help me understand how the American public can choose such a lackluster candidate when there are much better alternatives out there you know?

...doesn't look as impressive on the national stage as a pretty senior senator who's dealt with national issues. Don't get me wrong, I liked a lot about Dean, and if it weren't for him, I don't think we'd have any chance of winning. Just as I am impressed with Kerry for taking down my candidate, I am impressed with Dean for taking down Bush*.

I still think both Dean and Edwards would do better against Bush though.

was the same meme used against Clinton. I don't believe a senator has won the presidency since John Kennedy...

were the Kerry plants. There were lots of difty tricks going on behind the scenes in both Iowa and NH.

The Kerry campaign:

* stole the #1 list and called telling people the wrong caucus site

* called Dean supporters in Iowa using robocalling technology at all hours of the night to piss them off (and it did)

* as you've mentioned, had plants inside the Dean campaign who were supposed to be precinct captains but either didn't show up or did nothing when they did (and yes, others of ours were poorly trained and performed poorly, but not all of our poor performers were really Dean supporters)

* used the Vilsack political machine aggressively during the conduct of the caucus -- we didn't have anything like that

And don't forget the deal between Gephardt and Kerry (Gep was promised a job, possibly even VP, according to Gep's longtime dirty trickster aide Joyce Abouzzi) -- to go after Dean in negative ads, and throw his supporters to Kerry in the caucuses.

And then there was the Edwards/Kucinich backroom deal.

And even before that, the Kerry/Clark/Gephardt "Osama ads" against Dean. This set Dean up for Kerry's "More electable" meme, which is what pushed him both in Iowa and NH to the top.

Finally, the DLC's aggressive early primary schedule gave Dean not enough time to recover after the Iowa loss -- it was momentum alone that kept Kerry in the #1 spot in NH (tho there the voting machines may have also been a factor).

Shit, just remembering all this pisses me off all over again -- Vote for Kerry? Yeah, sure I will. I think I'll write him in for our County Coroner slot in November. Blech

That's part of the reason I'm impressed with him. If you've ever been in a fierce rivalry with someone, you probably know that sense of respect you have for a worthy opponent. Remember, our nominee has to turn around and fight Bush*.

I am so glad I still have a few ideal left. It must be miserable to care so little about the state of the country. For the record, Tallbush ain't gonna change much.

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What sort of logic condones such tactics and then assumes that the leadership stemming from someone like that would be any benefit to our nation?

First of all, you don't know who planned said dirty tricks. I imagine Kerry's too consumed with other things to be planning out late-night crank-calls.

Second of all, yes, Kerry is better than Bush*. You have to admit, if someone wants it that bad, it could also be because they see how bad Bush* has made things, and are willing to play a little harder because of it. Especially, remember, since last time they did stuff like storm a courtroom to stop the count of votes, or recently set up votes in the senate to make it look like Kerry doesn't want an extension of unemployment benefits. It could be that he sees things under Bush* as so bad that he'd go out of his way to stop it.

With friends like that, who needs enemies? :evilfrown:

I love Howard Dean. I think he could have made vaste improvements and could have shamed congress into thinking about the welfare of the country rather than playing their pathetic games.

I'm reluctantly voting for Kerry, knowing in my heart that he will continue the war in Iraq. Some days I wonder why I still think he should be pretzledent and then Smirk comes on TV and I have to run out of the room with my hands over my ears screaming.

What a pathetic choice we have.

Ha! Pretzledent! Never heard that Jacobin...funny stuff! I run out of the room too, or hit mute reaaaallllllllyyyyy fast.

Many things you describe are standard Repug Dirty Tricks, attributed to JK through knee-jerk reaction or false assumptions. Repugs stir the pot all the time, and Divide and Conquer is their favorite recipe. Ask yourself, who benefits from pitting Dean and Kerry Supporters against one another?

K>A>R>L>R>O>V>E

Oh, by the way, Dr. Dean is campaigning for Kerry. How about you?

DU hasn't become a site from brownshirts and some of us are not taking loyalty oaths anymore.
Truth is all those things happened and Dean is still fighting to get rid of bush. Kerry would never have done the same were it reversed.

campaigning w Kerry and laughing and playing cards with him? If these unsupported allegations were true, then Dean's campaigning for Kerry would be lackluster at best. It has been a hell of a lot more than lackluster, he is fighting hard for Kerry, he even gave Kerry the damn BAT!!!!!!!

Know you will not read this because this thread is now dead, but it is time to face facts that Repugs will do anything to divide us.

Can't you praise and respect Dean without taking a shot at Kerry and bringing up primary unpleasantness?

in the primaries because he was considered "more electable" by the Dems pushing him instead of people rushing to Kerry in waves because of his message over Dean's message...

Well, let's just say you don't have a clue.

Contrast this type of speach with Kerry's vanilla..."stay the course" and "give Bush room" nonsense.


I wonder how long it will take for the "moderate" Kerry supporters to get here and try and defend their candidate.

Bleh...Kerry sux

Even Gore was more lively than Kerry.

Ugh.. what have we done...

F***ing media trash. They destroyed the only guy with passion who could have kicked Shrub's ass.


Kerry seems like Bush-lite to me.

to coordinate and organize us in order to achieve our goals together and we haven't had that kind of leadership in my lifetime.

I weep for the country we could have had under Gov. Dean.

So much lost. So sad.

more from the article:

''We're going to blame for the next five-and-a-half months George Bush for all things wrong with this country - and we are going to be mostly right,'' said Dean. ''But there are two other groups of people we ought to blame.

''First of all we ought to blame the Democratic Party for not standing up to the right-wing extremists - for they have allowed extremism to flourish in the United States of America.

''Second thing is we ought to blame ourselves - because 50 percent of us don't vote; 50 percent of us thought somebody else was going to do the job; 50 percent of us gave up because we thought we couldn't win and it didn't make any difference anyway.

''Well, it does now.''

''This is not the time to compromise,'' he said. ''You don't compromise with extremists. You fight back. And that's what we are going to do in the Democratic Party from this day forward.''

And he is right. We actually are.

He once was a DLCer but he left them because they have no spines.

Look at the post of Dr. Elaine Kamarck at the blog. She was a founder of the PPI/DLC. She got really criticized for supporting Dean....now she will post at his blog weekly. This is a great article on how we MUST remember Vietnam.

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/features/2004/05/20/why_vietnam_matters.php
SNIP..."Can we finally put the Vietnam War behind us?" I was asked that question last week by one of those "fair and balanced" anchormen on Fox News. My answer was firmly no. The Vietnam war is directly relevant to this current presidential campaign in two ways -it tells us something about the character of the two men who are running and it tells us something about their judgement...."

As it is now, he seems to be the only one who can let his yeas be yeas and his nays be nays.

Damn if it isn't good to just hear plain English spoken in the realm of politics. The language can mean something when people use it to communicate instead of to hedge and CYA.

Those are what made ME fall in love with the guy (politically speaking).

it amazes me how much my heart still aches when I think about it. The sense of loss, the grief. I surely thought I'd be over it by now, but the truth is I just don't think about it much. The pain is still there.

The way the organization is building, hiring new staff all the time, shows there are many still working and devoted to what he started.

A place I go for lunch. there is a guy who complains all the time. I asked if he is voting in Nov. No. I now ask him every time he complains, is he registered. He doesn't see a difference between two bones men. I asked if he likes who we have. No. So try the other guy.

The owner was complaining about some city projects. But he also did not vote in our May election which re installed some of the city council who came up with the fiasco. If you don't vote, you can't complain.

Democrats don't vote. They think everyone should play nice. They are very trusting. We have been taken by religious fanatics. Very dishonest people.

assumption about the people "who do not vote". It's the dumb assumption that they just got disgusted, went away and if someone emerges who can speak to their needs, they will rush out into the streets, rush to the voting booths and cry "democracy" on their newly wet lips. Bullcrap. There are a few "handfuls" like that. Most wouldn't respond to the second coming with a bullhorn blasting in their ear because they are apathetic, dumb, uninformed, don't care to be informed, never listen to news, never take an interest in what their country/state/local government is doing, don't know much about dat thing called "gumberment", like entertainment, don't like that 'thinkin' stuff', never voted, don't know how nor care to know how, wouldn't interrupt tv to go do a thing called voting.........get the picture?? Anyone who does not recognize that about our great citizens just hasn't been observing them carefully.

apethetic voters get off their duff and to the poll is something that directly affects them! People who are laid off, and can't find a decent job, or have been forced to take a very low wage one just to survive are going to vote. People who have close relatives in Iraq will vote, and people who have a lot of $$ in the stock market will vote. All for different reasons, but they'll be there.

Those who don't feel much affected, and are just living their life day to day without much change really don't care. Gov't is far removed from them.

My husband is a bit like that. The only reason he's never missed any election....ever...is because I say "come-on, we're going to vote...NOW!" Most of the time, on the way, he say "Who are we voting for?"

Maybe that's another slogan we need to try. "Take your mate with you!"

You go Girl!:hi:

If they can't do it for their country, then do it for love or a nice dinner.:-)

into a series like Survivor people would get off their collective asses and vote.

Hey - actually, I think that is a good idea (although I don't have a TV myself) - people could "vote a candidate out." That way, if Shrub gets the votes - he's out!

Just a thought. :eyes:

:-(

I have wondered about this charge leveled at Americans and wondered howcome we get so few voting all the time. I came to the conclusion that people may be just too independant and that no one is going to tell them what to do--especially those whackos in the congress who are out for themselves.

I think there may be a little of personal attachment to anarchy there also.

(Not your statement, but that attitude)

Elected officials are the ones who tell us what we can and can't do EVERY DAY! If one thinks that by not voting, they have some sort of control over themselves, they are being stupid and deserve whatever insane RW legislation gets foisted upon them.

I swear to God that's what keeps most of the people I know who aren't registered from registering.

And I've heard people say exactly that. They will not register to vote because that makes them eligible for jury duty. Most employers don't subsidize employee paychecks when they're serving jury duty and, quite honestly, a lot of people simply can't afford it.

We had two neighbors tell us they would not register to vote because of jury duty. Just sunk into my brain that might be a real issue.

and I almost can't blame 'em. Here in LA I've been called up for jury duty several times. Each time I plead financial hardship because it's the goddamn truth. I'm freelance, and I can't miss a day of work for anything, really, except a life-threatening emergency. I also have two kids and a wife who isn't working now.

This last time they finally said they would not accept my argument of financial hardship. I had to call in every single night of one week to see if I had to report for jury duty.

So I did. Except for the night when I had to work the next day. Of course that was apparently the day that my number came up. Now they've issued me another summons and I have to report downtown LA on a certain date to try to explain this or some fucking thing, or else face a warrant for my arrest and/or a $1,500 fine.

Great. Just great. I do not have an employer who will pay me for jury duty, and the city/county sure as shit isn't gonna pay my day rate, so I'm tempted to just tell 'em to fuck off and take the fine. It might actually be cheaper.

I'd be happy to do my civic duty, but only if I'm not working. If I'm working, my family comes first. That's just how it is. Unless they want to compensate me my day rate, it's simply impossible for me to contemplate this.

But they don't give a shit.

We were getting petitions signed for our congressional candidate. That is when they told us that.

You make an awful lot of awful assumptions about people you couldnt possibly know based upon one or three people you do know.

I prefer the opinion that, should the politicians actually speak to the disenfranchised, act in their best interest, condemn and rebuild a system that excludes these people generally those you villify so easily might actually choose to participate.

There aren't aliens bent upon domination in our positions of power. They're all Americans. American born, raised, and educated. It seems to me that there's plenty of blame to go around for everybody. So, let's accept it and then do something about it.

freaked out and pissed off. LIke when he said "the world isn't safer with Saddam in jail". People like Holy Joe, et al went fucking ballistic. Then, as it became obvious he was RIGHT, no one wants to talk about it.

Dean is correct. We came very close to electing the asshole in the white house. If this country had citizens who were halfway informed and a competent non-corrupt media, Smirk would never have even made it through the primaries.

Dr. Dean is RIGHT. Again.

I have great admiration for this man who had the nerve to speak out like he did and actually energized the others and woke them up from their hibernating slumber--except for Kucinich. I think he could have done great things for this country.

I loved Dean for that nerve and for that approach and also Kucinich.

OK, now we have Kerry, who it seems has gone back into hibernation sleep. and, we have Edwards--0ne of the first to support Bush and his quest to murder tens of thousands of innocent people by invading a defenseless country.

I also like Judy very much.

I like Dean better than Kerry also. He would have a better chance of beating Bush in the election.

Telling the Truth, is a "no,no."

:hi:

is that everybody complains about politicians and says "they all lie" or whatever ...

so someone comes along who speaks the straight truth ......

and he gets crucified for it.

which has lead us to the "state of the Nation."

:hi:

Team Smirk, along with their puppy dog press would have insured that the Village Idiot, with or without the USSC, was successfully installed in the WH! I don't blame the victims, like most Americans love to do! I remember the "recount" and James Baker and the Media Whores quite well! I also remember that Team Smirk, James Baker and the Repukes were willing to go beyond the USSC if they had too, i.e. the EC!

Gore has said now that the DLC left him.

out of 100,000,000 or around 1/2 of 1%. Yes, Gore got robbed but essentially half of those who bothered to vote voted for Bush.

We love you.

always tells it like it is. Bravo Howard Dean!

:)

'This is not the time to compromise,' he said. 'You don't compromise with extremists. You fight back. And that's what we are going to do in the Democratic Party from this day forward.'

Damn straight Dr. Dean!

Is Just not smart politics. It may go over well in Vermont but the average voter and the average Democrat will react in a very negative way to these comments.

I am tired of smart politics.

On Edit:
We are to blame when our country is doing these things. It is being done in our name, and if we are silent we are complicit. I am sorry but that is the truth. Either one speaks up against these things, and they are giving tacit approval.

oh wait, you don't, do you?

And what exactly is an "average" Democrat?

RL

This mess was caused by the penis of Saddam Hussein.

Shrub is not in office because any other nation voted for him!

We bear the shame of what our country has done. The reps from each country saying "Don't vote Bush."

We are feared. The world feels better to know there is a Michael Moore there saying there are "millions more Americans just like me."

My first thought as we watched it.....yes, we are responsible for what we stand for.

Dean said he would dismantle the the media conglomerates. Honorable, but he should have kept that to himself until after the election.

The people of Spain put us to shame...we've had many events since the election that should have taken us to the streets, and we did nothing but sit in front of our computers and type.

9-11, Patriot Act, invasion of Afghanistan, invasion of Iraq, lies, torture. Any of those events should have evoked our anger to the point of putting a stop to it through the proper channels.

I'll vote for anyone but Bush. Hopefully, we'll learn this time. Our politicians in DC need to be told if they vote for pre-emptive war, we'll vote them out.

Apathy is no longer a choice.

with a little help from the Supreme Court.

In 2000 I was turned away at the polls in Oklahoma; name purged from the roll (true).

Dean is da man with da spine! You rock, Doc!

As usual the Doctor is right!

George Bush is president because people couldn't be bothered to get off their duffs and vote and because some leaders in the party were unwilling to fight for their side.

Give em hell

I have every right to be disappointed in my fellow Americans. They're indolent and blindly believe what our parroting controlled media tells them.

Of course, if he was nominated and said what he had, would he still be a hero? :shrug:

And where the hell is Kerry asking these things?

...than being wrong, is being right too soon.

Mad props to Howard....

How true. Rather sad as well.

let's not forget them - especially their roll over and play dead DINO contingent which is alive but still unable to kick...