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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-24-04 12:57 AM
Original message
Differences between the Neo-Cons and the Fascists of old...
I must agree and disagree with many on this board about the Fascist/Neocon comparisons. While it seems that comparisons between * and Hitler seem valid on the surface, their motives, for the long run, are I believe very different. While Fascism is the Merger of Corporate and State power, it does give both EQUAL power in the governing of the nation. That is where Fascists differ from the Neo-Cons, for the Neo-Cons agenda is actually more insidious and dangerous to the world.

To put it in plain terms, Mussolini and Hitler both fought wars for their percieved national interests. In Mussolini's case to recreate the Roman Empire, and in Hitler's to create the Greater German Third Reich. Bush and the rest of PNAC crowd do not fight for such visions or national interests. While, like those two Fascists, they use Nationalism to forward their agendas, they themselves do not believe in such doctrine. They are using business interests first and foremost to advance an agenda, not for the sole reason of increasing national power, but to increase corporate power to such an extant to make the State subvervient to the Corporation.

In Iraq for instance, many have argued that the war was about oil, that much is true, however the question everyone should ask, is for whom is the oil for? I would postulate that the goal of this administration is to secure what oil is left in Iraq, not for national interests, not even for enriching his oil buddies, but as blackmail for the entire world. If the true reserves in Iraq are under exclusive American and Allied Corporate control, then Bush has a trump card to use to extend the already unprecedented power of American Corporations above ALL nations on the planet, including the United States.

This is what Ike warned us about, private entities mandating not only foriegn policy, but also domestic policy. How powerful is the nation truly when its entire energy structure is dependant on a single source. I believe that Bush wants to wean the United States from 'foriegn' oil, but only that oil from belligerent allies, OPEC. A secure source of oil from Iraq, outside of any government intereference is perferable to having to change the infrastructure of this nation off of the oil well teat. We have not even gotten to the entire weakening of the Armed Forces with their TOTAL dependance on private contractors for both security due to undermanning, and also for infrastructure and support due to outsourcing of military support to private entities, actually only one Kellog Brown and Root.

This leads to the emergence of Corporations as stateless entities that answer to no law that any government can enforce. I think that we have been thinking too petty, Bush would not be the new Dictator of the United States, why should he be when all he has to do is lay the groundwork for faceless entities to take his place? One thing that most Americans have is faith in the free market, at least nationwide. How better to run this country then, instead of having a single dictator, when you could have hundreds, ruling by proxy.
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-24-04 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. Very Very Very Nice
The Neo-cons have no idea what they are doing. They have no fundemental goal for the country, they act soley based on what will win them elections and keep thier supporters happy. They are blindly piloting this country into its destruction. Corporations are using the US government to allow them to globalize so they will transcend governments, and they will destroy the US economy in the process.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-24-04 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I would disagree on one point.
They know EXACTLY what they are doing, and have learned one lesson of the past, that people are temporary, but institutions can last forever. Think of if this way, in the Middle Ages, the Serfs owed their entire existance to the Landed Nobles. Just replace the Nobles with faceless corporations and it becomes the same system with better durability, feudalism, 21st century style.
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-24-04 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I think you overestimate the neo-cons a great deal.
They want power in the American political system. That is thier goal. That is why they are so tied to corporate money. Cheney wasnt where he was in Haliburton because he is a tycoon, he was there because he was a politician. These people want political power, they exist in that system. They simply do not realize that corporations are using them to eliminate the American political system. They just need to win the next election, because theyve convinced themselves they have a mission, but none of them can really define it.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-24-04 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
4. You got it. "as blackmail for the entire world"


"In Iraq for instance, many have argued that the war was about oil, that much is true, however the question everyone should ask, is for whom is the oil for? I would postulate that the goal of this administration is to secure what oil is left in Iraq, not for national interests, not even for enriching his oil buddies, but as blackmail for the entire world. If the true reserves in Iraq are under exclusive American and Allied Corporate control, then Bush has a trump card to use to extend the already unprecedented power of American Corporations above ALL nations on the planet, including the United States."

Excellent post.
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yowzayowzayowza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-24-04 04:37 AM
Response to Original message
5. This didn't get NEAR enough...
play...


A Tragedy of Errors
by MICHAEL LIND

An End to Evil: How to Win the War on Terror
by David Frum and Richard Perle

{from the February 23, 2004 issue}


http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20040223&s=lind

especially the last few paragraphs:

But too much can be made of the mendacity of the neocons. The influence of Leo Strauss's teachings about the need for the "philosophers" to conceal the truth from the masses can be exaggerated. The conviction on the part of neocons of their own rectitude may be sufficient, in their minds, to justify deception of the public in matters like Iraq's nonexistent threat to the United States. After all, they are waging World War IV against--well, against whomever--a revived Russia this year, China the next, and the next year a vague "Islamist" threat that somehow contains anti-Islamist Baathists and secular Palestinians along with Osama bin Laden. In their own minds, the neocons are Churchillian figures, a heroic minority who, as they battle a generic "totalitarianism" of which radical Islam is the latest manifestation, are handicapped by cowardly establishment "appeasers" and purveyors of a decadent "adversary culture" among the "new class" in the academy and the media. I don't doubt that many leading neocons sincerely wanted to believe that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, that the Iraqi masses would embrace Ahmad Chalabi as their de Gaulle, that there would be a democratic domino effect in the Middle East, bringing pro-Israel and pro-American secularists to power. Now that they have been proven wrong, at enormous cost in American and Iraqi life, they are disoriented. Instead of acknowledging and taking responsibility for their catastrophic failure, they are desperately trying to avoid blame.

Unfortunately for them, a political ideology can fail in the real world only so many times before being completely discredited. For at least two decades, in foreign policy the neocons have been wrong about everything. When the Soviet Union was on the verge of collapse, the hawks of Team B and the Committee on the Present Danger declared that it was on the verge of world domination. In the 1990s they exaggerated the power and threat of China, once again putting ideology ahead of the sober analysis of career military and intelligence experts. The neocons were so obsessed with Saddam Hussein and Yasir Arafat that they missed the growing threat of Al Qaeda. After 9/11 they pushed the irrelevant panaceas of preventive war and missile defense as solutions to the problems of hijackers and suicide bombers.

They said Saddam had WMDs. He didn't. They said he was in league with Osama bin Laden. He wasn't. They predicted that no major postwar insurgency in Iraq would occur. It did. They said there would be a wave of pro-Americanism in the Middle East and the world if the United States acted boldly and unilaterally. Instead, there was a regional and global wave of anti-Americanism.

David Brooks and his colleagues in the neocon press are half right. There is no neocon network of scheming masterminds--only a network of scheming blunderers. As a result of their own amateurism and incompetence, the neoconservatives have humiliated themselves. If they now claim that they never existed--well, you can hardly blame them, can you?

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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-24-04 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Multi Corps
The goal of US Multi Corps is planet domination. They are of a mindset that American workers are no longer needed. The proliferation of off shoring and out sourcing are the proofs of the game.They have used the Neo Fascists to gain world wide expansion. They will use Democrats in the same way. Global Capitalism is the end game. The CIA are the bulwork of protecting and expanding Capitalism. Freedom and Democracy are only myths to gain support of the masses for global expansion of Capitalism.
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