Wonder how many freeper/lurkers here get converted?

Just dawned on me that this board could be dangerous territory for the GOP propaganda machine! Maybe the mods should post this disclaimer at the top of Forums Main Page:

"Warning, DU Boards May Open Your Mind, Resulting in Enlightenment"! :D

they are so closed minded and follow their leaders so blindly,they would never convert.

I'm not convinced that some, who harbor doubts about AWOL and other outrages perpetrated on US by the rightwing, might turn. After all, David Brock did. :hi:

I, for one, am a converted freeper. I have been banned from FR, however, for using complete sentences and correct spelling in my posts.

Welcome to DU, home of the brave and still free!! Thanks for your testimonial! So sorry about your ability to use proper English, resulting in loss of freeper board privileges. Some of US are cursed with intelligence! :hug:

If they're lurking on DU, they're probably the hard-core version trying to find a quick laugh.

to prevent such occurrances.

Only information fed to them by their Party-Loyal Sub-Media is accepted, all others rejected.

This is how the Nazis built their Brownshirts.

And some things never change...

So the next logical step fro a freep or conservative would be a "moderate" position like Libertarian then a shift towards "New Democrat" or "Third-Way" finally ending up with something like the spectrum Liberalism seen here at DU.

.

they come here to look for things that affirm their views about us... even if it's usually one of their own doing the posting.

True believers are not swayed by information or facts. It just makes them cling more tightly to their pre programmed mantras.

and it would take too long for them to look up all the words they've never heard before in the dictionary. Most of them might not even own a dictionary.

They are living in their own little bubble. Any facts regarding Bush's incompetence or the crimes of his neo-con administration just never penetrate.

It has to do with how the mind works. Belief becomes a complex thing. Depending on the set of beliefs one follows you can be taken far afield from reality.

Once one finds oneself so far away from reality within a construct of belief the idea of letting go of that belief becomes untenable. Its a long way back after all. The investment one has made in getting to where they are overrides simple pleas to use reason on their current beliefs.

It assumes they have the ability to think critically and form their opinions after careful deliberation.

this place only hones their skills.

have been posted on this board in the past several months. I've never seen one.

I'm not very hopeful that a freeper can be enlightened by reason & facts alone. My theory is that their thinking faculties have either not developed past black-and-white thinking, or have been conditioned by constant rethug propaganda, pride, anger, fear, and a visceral reaction to hearing the true facts. In order to avoid cognitive dissonance, there has to be a state of denial and dismissal going on. (I'm not a psychiatrist, but it sure seems like I'm trying to sound like one here - sorry!) I do believe that even if Kerry does win, there's going to be a lot of "de-programming" that has to take place in order for these folks not to cause havoc either in their own personal lives or turn their anger outwards towards those who speak the truth.

I hope I'm wrong, and I may be, in that perhaps some people who are able to be rational about it are seeking to find out from us and sites like this one. When that happens, I think we serve a great purpose.

It's a nice thought you bring up, though, and I hope that if it happens, people will tell us. It would be REALLY interesting to hear their stories!

I started this thread for several reasons. First, some on DU have stated that they have or nearly have converted family members, acquaintances, or co-workers. Of course that's a lot more personal than relating to people on DU, but it is indicative that Repubs are starting to question this administration. Second, many Repubs in Congress are hanging * out to dry on Iraq and the budget. No, they're not becoming Dems, but such rebellion is unusual within this lockstep party. And, third, *'s crashing poll numbers have got to be indicative of major rebellion in the party. I think there is enough apparently serious doubt among the rightwing regarding * and his extremist policies to make my premise at least plausible.

but the ones who have confessed didn't do it out of enlightenment, but selfishness. Bush's* policies hurt them, too, and they want him out of office.

Unfortunately, they seem to hold on to some conservative views. I could see them re-defecting if a suitable republican appears.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

:hi: Even if you don't agree with us, it is nice to know that some read us, not to ridicule - but just for the stimulation of reading/thinking to issues from a different view point. Heck - I would bet - as I have found in through conversations with some of my more conservative friends - that there are actually some points of agreements with differences more on means and degrees.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Btw, the mods won't remove you, as you have said nothing inflammatory. I don't think it's ideology that gets one in trouble here, but extremist rhetoric. Many left posters have had their posts deleted (I'm left of center but mine have been deleted a few times :D). Anyway, I think rational dialogue between the right and left is healthy and long overdue!

:grouphug:

"I think most Right wingers and Left wingers have good intentions and just disagree on how to get the best for America. "

I used to think most right & left wingers believed the above. Unfortunately, Rush Limbaugh and his like have so poisoned the atmosphere in political debate, that most right-wingers I know now actually believe left-wingers are anti-American, if not actually worse than terrorists.

It's a little difficult to have an intellectual debate with someone who equates being to their left as being anti-American/pro-terrorist. I'm not accusing you of that, but that kind of attitude seems to predominate among right-wingers today.

per Limbaugh. He said that his father (of the old school liberal east coast republicans of earlier years) probably would have listened to Limbaugh and been infuriated by him, but found in interesting.

I countered that what I found the most noxious about Limbaugh, was his constant claiming to impute the real motivations and beliefs of democrats and liberals in the most ridiculing and intentionally distorted way - that has over time made it harder and harder to have discourse on political ideas because of the (reallys skewered) belief that they "understand" the "liberal intent" - but instead have a very warped picture/understanding. It has made those conversations next to impossible. I find this very unhealthy for discourse in the country (or right now - lack of discourse...)

A local talk show host (right-winger) talked about Kerry's vote on the $87 billion Iraq funding bill. Kerry voted against it, stating, often, that his reason for voting against it was because he felt the funding should be paid for by raising taxes or eliminating tax cuts.

This talk show host, in full knowledge of Kerry's position and why he voted against it, just ignored that and accused Kerry of endangering the troops.

Now, there was months between when this bill was voted on and when the troops would've actually been 'endangered' by a failure to fund their mission. And Kerry KNEW the bill was going to pass anyway by a comfortable margin.

But this guy deliberately painted Kerry in the most negative light possible by taking an indisputable fact (Kerry voted against the funding) and pairing it with an absurd lie (Kerry endangered the troops).

But aren't our troops still inadequately protected? Aren't there still shortages in supplies?

Obviously, then, one could say that Kerry was wise enough to know that that money wasn't meant for our troops, and those who voted in favor of the bill were bullied by the fear of being called unpatriotic.

They don't care that troops actually don't have the body armor they need or the armored jeeps they need or that they are stretched so thin because of Shrub's ill-conceived and ill-planned war.

But Kerry is dubbed as unpatriotic because he asks more Americans to sacrifice to PAY for the war.

I actually think that those (on both sides) who appear to "hate" what it is - are actually idealistic and their complaints come from a place of desired actualizing of some ideal. On the left and right (from those who sound like the "hate" America) - I think it comes from an idealized view of the goodness inherent in the ideals rooted in the founding of the country - and critiques of how yet (from that vantage point) the mark has not yet been met - it may not always sound like it, I do think it comes from a well intended place. Interesting thing about democracy - is how many different perspectives there are upon what those basic ideals are - and what it would look like if they were idealized. From those two more polar spaces - I think it would be harder to find agreement and common beliefs.

Now for the assholes that abound - yep - and the anonymity of the 'net just seems to embolden some folks.

Many of us have found that most RW posters (other than simply disruptors) repeat the same mantras over and over again, do not back up their assertions with citations to fact (Sorry, Moonie Times does not qualify), and quite frankly, tend to be very ignorant and not willing to cede points which are clearly and objectively wrong.

Therefore, it is so tiresome to hear the same unsubstantiated drivel over and over again, that I'm fine with tombstoning them. Repetition is not a good basis for discussion.

The blatant and craven racism at FR is also not allowed because the members of DU are ethnically mixed and it is simply a matter of decency that such personal bile be banned.

I suspect that if you were to post intelligent comments that are supported by factual data, that while you might be flamed by those who adamently disagree, that you would not likely be banned.

Thanks for dropping by.

:hi:

There was just so much right-wing "stuff" on radio, TV, and the Internet, in their opinions, that they decided to make a site for left-wing and progressive-minded people. It was proved in the first few days that it could not work if right-wingers were permitted to post. The level of debate was diminished immensely by the rantings and the repeat phrases of Limbaugh and that type. It is out of necessity that DU does not allow disruptors on this board. We did not wish to hear anymore of the crap that we are targeted with for hours on end on talk radio and cable television.

(edited to correct spelling)

a much needed haven for those of us who were/are fed up with radio and cable talk programming, including the call-in segments of C-SPAN (which seem to be consumed by RW phone banks even on the so-called Democrat line).

Heaven knows, without DU, I'd be asylum bound.

Frankly, while I welcome the thoughtful posts from those 'freepers' who've tuned into this thread, I really don't want DU to change, I don't need my blood pressure skyrocketing from RW threads and posts HERE. I live in SC (home of Bob Jones, the undying confederacy, and most recently the state where a fundamentalist group wants to create a new Christian 'nation' ... enough said). As such, I have to deal with RWs everywhere I turn. DU is my major safety valve. Change would not be a good thing.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Ain't we creative? :D

ala DUers use the term to refer to ourselves.

If they were converts, they wouldn't lurk.

I checked out freerepublic once, and the ugly interface of the site was its most attractive feature. Aside from seeing the usual GOP talking points just once out of curiousty (those are some pissed-off people), I couldn't find it interesting enough to go back. I can't believe that so many of them lurk here, but apparently there are some. I, on the other hand, have better things to do - and don't care if any of those guys convert.

But maybe seeds of doubt of *'s policies are planted in their minds when they visit.