Lame Duck Resignation - Pardons for everybody

Hypothetically, Bush loses in November (Big!) and the inevitable court challenges fail. Before term ends he preemptively pardons everybody in the WH then resigns in the last days so Cheney can give him a nice warm fuzzy blanket pardon.

I'm sure they've called the printing company and are having tens of thousands of pardon forms made.

They're gonna need them, big time.

for anything yet?

Before any actual indictments were published. So in essence Nixon accepted a pardon for crimes he *didn't* commit.

They like all that pre-emptive sh*t.

How can someone be pardoned if they haven't committed a crime?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/05/20030522-15.html

, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, find that the threat of attachment or other judicial process against the Development Fund for Iraq, Iraqi petroleum and petroleum products, and interests therein, and proceeds, obligations, or any financial instruments of any nature whatsoever arising from or related to the sale or marketing thereof, and interests therein, obstructs the orderly reconstruction of Iraq, the restoration and maintenance of peace and security in the country, and the development of political, administrative, and economic institutions in Iraq. This situation constitutes an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States and I hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat.

I hereby order:

Section 1. Unless licensed or otherwise authorized pursuant to this order, any attachment, judgment, decree, lien, execution, garnishment, or other judicial process is prohibited, and shall be deemed null and void, with respect to the following:

(a) the Development Fund for Iraq, and

(b) all Iraqi petroleum and petroleum products, and interests therein, and proceeds, obligations, or any financial instruments of any nature whatsoever arising from or related to the sale or marketing thereof, and interests therein, in which any foreign country or a national thereof has any interest, that are in the United States, that hereafter come within the United States, or that are or hereafter come within the possession or control of United States persons.

(more)

the question should be "Can you be pardoned of a crime if you haven't been CONVICTED of the crime?"
We now know Nixon and his henchmen committed a lot of crimes.
Some were convicted before Nixon resigned (I think).
Through Ford's pre-emptive pardon, Nixon left office unblemished (on paper/legally). He's never been convicted of a crime.

In the court of public opinion, he's guilty as sin.

good call.......been thinking about this myself......same conclusions.

If he loses in November "Big!", it will mean that the people are utterly disenchanted with him already. If they tried to pull this kind of crap afterwards, it would ensure that no Republican could be elected to presidency again for a generation at least.

I want them ALL set back for a generation. ALL of them. First and foremost the fundamentalist whackos who think they can run this country and dictate morality by (their own version of) Divine decree.

What I've been wondering is - assuming there's a Kerry win or maybe even a Kerry LANDSLIDE - would he even show up on innauguration day? Would he have the guts? Would he have the "character" to arrive and to sit there watching that other guy take "his" oath and get "his" glory and deliver "his" innauguration speech? I'd be VERY surprised to see that. It would be the one time he'd actually have shown any good character.

but the GOP isn't going to let them do that, that's all I'm saying. Once they're lame ducks, the Republican congress people become much more powerful against the Administration, as being their lapdogs is no longer in their interest.

For the same reason, he'll show up at the inauguration of Kerry. Not out of some "good character", but because the GOP will make sure he's there.

Of course, assuming an orderly transfer of power is in their plans.

and looked what happened in 1980. They would view it as a temporary setback. Some GOP would condemn it, others would excuse it as necessary to avoid "Persecution" by a Democratic Administration.

If a lot is uncovered, it might hurt Republicans in the next mid-term. However, pardons tend to derail investigations so they might view it as a lesser evil than the possibility of actual trials.

But it wouldn't surprise me if W gave his cabinet members a blanket pardon. Or at the very least pardoned them for any war crimes they may have committed. Most Americans still don't like the idea of Americans being tried in the Hague. That sort of pardon would actually be popular.

Of course, he could give them the former pardon for everything while advertising the latter limited pardon.

And we already know that pardoning his entire cabinet would not guarantee Republican presidential losses for a generation since his father, in fact, did just that on Christmas Eve in 1992.

you're right about that.

and don't forget:
http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/08/aspa080302.htm

U.S.: 'Hague Invasion Act' Becomes Law

Or do you mean "why do Americans not like the idea?" That would be the whole sovereignty issue.

When Bush came to office he denied the the International Criminal Court (ICC), made a special 'Hague Invasion Act' Law......and now, there's all the torture scandals, this is all just going way over my head I guess.

And now they can all pardon themselves from it?, this is getting way to bizarre, what kind of a democracy is this.

can a president pardon himself?

that the President looses his ability to pardon if he is impeached or convicted of Treason. So I would assume that that means that he could pardon himself if he only loses the election.

On edit:
Found what I was looking for. Article II Section 2:

The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.

But it doesn't say anything about pardoning crimes against humanity....

as to raise the question as to whether a pardon can be issued for an offense that hasnt been prosecuted or even accused.

In the absense of any legal action by the government to prosecute is there really any offense in a legal sense ?

It might take the Supreme Court to determine it, though that's a whole 'nother issue with the current court.

Since Nixon hadnt yet been accused by the government, it's possible that his pardon by Ford might not have held up but I doubt there would have been the will to pursue it that far.

Anyone have case law to cite ?

Proclamation 4311, Granting a Pardon to Richard Nixon
September 8, 1974 By the President of the United States of America a Proclamation
Richard Nixon became the thirty-seventh President of the United States on January 20, 1969 and was reelected in 1972 for a second term by the electors of forty-nine of the fifty states. His term in office continued until his resignation on August 9, 1974.

Pursuant to resolutions of the House of Representatives, its Committee on the Judiciary conducted an inquiry and investigation on the impeachment of the President extending over more than eight months. The hearings of the Committee and its deliberations, which received wide national publicity over television, radio, and in printed media, resulted in votes adverse to Richard Nixon on recommended Articles of Impeachment.

As a result of certain acts or omissions occurring before his resignation from the Office of President, Richard Nixon has become liable to possible indictment and trial for offenses against the United States. Whether or not he shall be so prosecuted depends on findings of the appropriate grand jury and on the discretion of the authorized prosecutor. Should an indictment ensue, the accused shall then be entitled to a fair trial by an impartial jury, as guaranteed to every individual by the Constitution.

It is believed that a trial of Richard Nixon, if it became necessary, could not fairly begin until a year or more has elapsed. In the meantime, the tranquility to which this nation has been restored by the events of recent weeks could be irreparably lost by the prospects of bringing to trial a former President of the United States. The prospects of such trial will cause prolonged and divisive debate over the propriety of exposing to further punishment and degradation a man who has already paid the unprecedented penalty of relinquishing the highest elective office of the United States.

Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this eighth day of September, in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred and seventy-four, and of the Independence of the United States of America the one hundred and ninety-ninth.

GERALD R. FORD

http://www.seattleu.edu/artsci/history/us1945/docs/pardnpr.htm

but I note two things:

The Constitutional clause's language specifies pardons for offenses against the United States, not for people. I think it may be somewhat of an open question whether someONE may be pardoned for anything they might have done when there is complete ignorance as to the existance of the offenses.

Nixon was already under intense investigation on a number of fronts and by numerous agencies. It is possible that the fruits of those investigations could be considered to be part of the establishment of offenses and subject to the pardon power.

It may not be so clear a situation where there are neither investigations or legal proceedings that can be correlated to an offense.

But then I'm not a lawyer. I only play one on DU.

Cheney pardons bBush after he takes oath.

You pardon me.
OK, now I'll pardon you.
whew

The power to pardon is absolute and can't be overturned or reviewed. The Republicans screamed bloody murder over the Marc Rich pardon, but that was very small beer compared to Poppy's pardons of Cap Weinberger and the rest of the Iran/contra miscreants while he was a lame duck on Christmas Eve 1992. And that was barely two weeks before their trial was about to start, which would have conclusively proved that Poppy was not only "in the loop" on Iran/contra, but actively involved.

Stupidhead won't resign (hell, he may not even be aware that he's not longer president until January 25, 2005 or later), but he will be issuing a record number of pardons for his co-conspirators and henchmen. Without their testimony, Stupidhead will be as safe as houses from prosecution after leaving office.

But he would not be completely safe:

1. Documents may survive
2. There may be other witnesses
3. Henchmen, safely pardoned, may write books. He can't make the pardons conditional.

Not likely, but can he take that chance? A pardon is the only 100% guaranteed stay out of jail card.

If we start tossing out reprisals every time power changes hands then democracy will die and die quickly. No person in power is going to give up that power if they know they will face reprisals. This is why democracy so often fails in its infancy.

Daddy pardoned everyone who could testify about Irancontra and so will bush

...I don't think any pardon issued in our White House will do a thing to release them from world court responsibility for war crimes. IF it is proved they knew about the torture of Iraqi POWs they could be tried for it by the world court.


Laura

world court's authority since Bush has been in office?

:evilgrin:

will anyone be pardoned twice? :)

After all, the Chimpministration does have a lot of recycled criminals in it.

This is one thing I'll grit my teeth over, because it IS an executive power---period. I didn't like the Repubs whining about the Big Dog's pardons, so I'll grind my teeth but keep relatively quiet at Bush's.

Diebold has it locked up for Bush*

So no need to worry about pardons.