Do you think the country is ready for a woman who doesn't want kids and

has no interest in the "mommy track" and in fact doesn't want her womanhood being tied de facto to reproduction and who thinks that women in general could go farther in life if they bred less?

Will I even escape a serious flaming for having said this?

And these days its fairly common. Our population growth has slowed considerably. They are not however the model or the cultural norm.

dAnn Coulter?...by any chance? :-)

I can't believe you would think that the subject woman represents Coulter in particular.

I am a professional woman who for my own reasons did not have children. I am NOT Ann Coulter and have nothing in common with her at all.

s_m

You'll note that _ I _ didn't draw any comparison with you and dAnn.


I can't believe you would think that the subject woman represents Coulter in particular.

But since you're flaming....why not?

It looked as though she met the criteria and there seems to be millions ready for her and all of them are RWer's. There's definitely some relevance in that, when you think about it.

But, alas, it wasn't a point I was trying to make or thought I'd have to defend, as I was just being facetious. :shrug:

It's just that s/he's not biologically equipped to have them.

proof presented she's a female....

what is the original poster talking about?

I have children and while I love them, the sacrifices are numerous. Sometimes realistically, it's very difficult to excel as much as one would want in certain fields as a mother. 60+ hour work weeks and being a mom don't usually mix easily.

Being a woman is certainly more than reproduction. Thank God(dess) we have a choice (still).

Edit: spelling

I would suggest that you do what makes you happy in life. Do not concern yourself with what others might think.

and, K-W, you're pretty much right about it not being as big a societal no-no as it used to be.

Still makes me rant though. The social expectation that any pregnancy must always be greeted with cooing approval, no matter how bad the parent material is; that's something that feels the same as always.

The US used to have a way to deal with bad parent material.

How to deal with defective family trees: http://www.waragainsttheweak.com/

...glad to know I'm not the only one that often feels disappointment when some people announce the imminent arrival of their offspring.

My wife and I chose not to have kids. At the current population explosion by the year 2060 there will not be enough energy from the sun to grow enough food to feed just the human population.

:headbang:

If someone can't handle the way you wish to live.... fuck em. And I don't think I've ever met someone who looks down on a woman like that...maybe grandmothers..that's it.

You want children? Fine. Have some. To hell with anyone who tells you differently. You don't want children? Fine. Don't have any. And again, to hell with anyone who tells you differently.
It's your body your choice. The idea is really very simple actually.

I never wanted kids, but I had two of them. When I became pregnant both times, the birth control pill was not invented yet and abortion was not legal.

since that is the path that I have chosen, never had maternal instincts except towards animals.

...with the small exception that it would be 'paternal' in my case. But, I can assure you someone would trigger some 'fatherly' instincts in me if they tried to harm my beautiful little girls, Kashi and Lucia, the ferret and munchkin kitty, respectively.

...And far from being only ready for this type of woman, I've actively searched for her, my whole life, FizzFuzz, and found her - my ferret and kitty lovin' wife, Joni.

The answer: it depends.

If the woman is post-menopause and CAN'T reproduce, I don't think there would be any negative comments from the public or other candidates.

But the woman in your description I would imagine is fecund and rashly throwing away her ovum and denying her potential children a mother. Something like that?

No, I don't think that woman would be a virtual poster-girl, so to speak, for public office -- yet. An unwed mother would have a leg up on a proud-to-be-barren candidate. It wouldn't play in Peoria. Plain and simple. It would set a "bad" example as the candidate (and possible elected official) is seen as a role model.

Maybe if more than one candidate fitting this profile ran and there seemed to be a "trend", then you could market this "new" woman.

I wish these attitudes did not exist as I think the issue is irrelevant. No one bothered John F. Kennedy for being a bachelor in this mid-30's when he ran for Congress in the 50's. Women are put on the defense of motherhood by virtue of being born female and it isn't fair or logical.

And even though I am a male, I will fight tooth and nail to make sure you and every other woman has that choice.

Do you mean becoming the CEO of an oil company would be "going further" than parenthood?

...I would say it's a tad irresponsible to procreate now. I'm 38, male, and I've had "thoughts" about procreating (for the selfish reason of perpetuation of my surname, which is in danger of disappearing with my generation), but I think it would be unwise to create a life in such an unsure climate.

I agree with you...:thumbsup:

I think your post contains an element of condescension and likely could have been worded better.

I wonder what you are referring to when you say you believe, "...women in general could go farther in life if they bred less"?

My mom told me from the very beginning (and she told me everything) to have kids only if I wanted them and not let anybody else pressure me into it. She also told me it was okay not to have kids and to have a life I defined. She said she had 'em cause she wanted them but she didn't expect me to have them out of obligation for giving her grandchildren. I never had 'em and my brother has one daughter. I still don't regret the decision and am way too old to change my mind now.

Jazzgirl

I think we are in the process of making that shift, but we're not there yet.

Flame me if you will, but I think we'll be a better nation when we get there.

Imagine a world where the only people who have kids are the people who love them and want to raise them. Where no one has kids for ego or visions of immortality; it's not a cultural expectation. Where people who don't like to talk to and play with kids don't have them. Where people who don't want to raise kids don't have them.

children, does that make them less a benefit to society?

I think the country is okay with people's life choices, but I think they are NOT okay with someone being AGAINST a life path, which is sort of what your question implies.

As a woman without children, I can see where someone might choose not to go that route. But I think it's indicative of something else when someone is against another path, per se. That's not the same thing.

If you mean a woman running for high political office, then no - I don't think the country is ready for that woman. If you mean one woman or a few women laboring in obscurity, sure, the country's ready - although a substantial portion of it is ready to fix her/them up.

It was 1977 and I was 21, single, no kids. Knowing all along I didn't want children, I went to my gyno and asked for a tubal ligation, as the pill made me crazy. He was Catholic and told me I had offended him. I judge no one for their political or religious beliefs and decided to find a different gyno.

I went home and opened up the phone book to Planned Parenthood, called them and explained what I wanted. I was given an appt. within a week, and within another week, in the hospital getting my tubes tied. They asked me 3 times during the surgery (awake, had a saddle block) before they snipped them, and told me that there was no way the tubes could be repaired in the future if I changed my mind. They cut, tied and cauterized and I never looked back.

It's the best decision I ever made and don't have one moment of regret. I'm not sure being childless helped my career though.

I'm with ya 100%... and too bad if the world isn't "ready" yet.

:D

:toast:

I've never had an interest in having children. I do like other people's kids, though.

The "mommy track" sounds like a death sentence for someone like me.

There's enough people having kids, so I don't worry about us humans dying out any time soon.

Why would you be flamed for saying what you said?

but I don't have kids, I don't want to have kids, and DH and I are very content with our lives sans children.

We like our friends' kids, but we don't want any.

I was chatting with a woman at a crochet class the other day who was determined to tell me "how much I was missing" after having asked me if we had children and my response of "no, we don't." I told her that I would never be able to do the amount of volunteer work both DH and I do weekly if we had kids.

Her response? "Well, there's still time." I know that she was being polite, but I had reached my limit. I calmly responded, "Why are you so threatened by the fact that we don't want to have children?"

She dropped the subject.

Julie

...would be brave indeed and deserve an amount of respect. And let's hope she would possess fortitude, because she would certainly need it.

Not that I wouldn't have liked kids if I could have had them. Fate decided I couldn't, but I never felt any woman should have children who didn't want to,and I defended a couple of women friends about this way back when it wasn't popular to. It was sort of like defending yourself as a liberal or a wackadoo today.

I don't think you should demean those who choose to have them as breeders. That is flamey actually. I am a women who neither has children nor am I careerist. Both paths are fairly conservative in my view. One path says a women has no value if she has no children the other says she has none if she doesn't make money.

no way no how, not cause of pressure from family man or country

too many women have kids and then they dont do the work of them. not fair to the kids, not fair to society.

i totally embrace your non desire to reproduce, so dont

i couldnt be more grand because of having kids. it has made me that much huger, grinnin. they teach me so much all day long, day after day after day. has been the biggest blessing for me. and it is a 24/7 kinda thing

but really you dont want kids, no judgement. though saying women could go farther in life without kids, i guess it depends on the definition of farther. money.............well hey, money doesnt even compare to how much farther my kids have taken me.

She sure doesn't seem to be hurting much.

I know plenty of women (and men) who have conciously decided not to have kids at all...in fact, my best friend has been married for 11 years and she and her husband decided no kids was the way to go. I say good for them. You should only have them if you really want them.

My husband and I chose to have only one and stop. We love it. One child fit us perfectly. If no children fits people perfectly they should do just that and say ppppppppthhhh to any pressure to have kids. We got a lot of pressure to have a second, but said no thanks.

short of going around with a button on your lapel that says "tubes tied", people will assume as long as you're under 50 that you can and will eventually have a baby and that alone can hold you back career wise.

They are some careers, law, medicine, etc., that put BIG demands on your time, especially at the beginning. I was never interested in putting in 60 hour weeks whether I had kids or not, so that's certainly affected my career choices, but there are just other things I wanted to do with my life besides work. I've seen ads for management jobs where they say that you have to work 55 hours a week. Those jobs aren't for me. So my career "path" has been anything but straight, but that's okay. My life, my choice.

:shrug:
No judgements here. :)

and I am joyously happy with my decision. Fortunately, I live in a large city and there are many women in my age range (pushing 40) that feel the same way.

We have recognized that it is everyone elses desire for us to marry and reproduce, but not our own. We have reached a certain level of maturity where we are independently minded enough to ask "What do I want?" And many of us have decided, for varying reasons, that we do not want children.

I may meet Mr. Wonderful and possibly decide to get married (that's still up in the air for me though, I am trying to think of a good reason to marry instead of just be together - I like my space) and I adore my nephew and nieces, but I know myself well enough to make that decision with almost 100% certainty.

I am not a careerist either (not that there is anything wrong w/ it, it's just a track I have jumped off of), so it's not about that, but I do have ambitions for myself as a human being - I can love and nurture without having a family of my own - Though I would like to hear the patter of little puppy paws someday :)

Any choice a woman makes is fine w/ me and should be up to her alone. It's her life - mother, not a mother, career woman, not a career woman, not a mother or career woman, both, et al. - If a woman is happy w/ her decision, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

with women that don't have children (and i have four), is when they are judgmental and have the audacity to tell me how to raise my children. THAT i cannot stomach and have (sadly) ended a friendship with someone who did this.

i will admit tho, motherhood isn't for everyone and all woman do not have the maternal instinct. just nature balancing itself out.