Are there any first world countries where Church's don't have tax-exempt

status? Anybody know? The issue I'm REALLY liberal on is seperation of church and state, and I would personally be thrilled if all the "crazy" things like taxing churches, removing the word god from the pledge and money, and having public schools challenge kids to look at whether Jesus actually existed or not, really became law.

But I remember how astonished I was when I visited a church in a 3rd or 4th world country (rural Honduras) and found them taking up a collection from the impoverished peasants in order to help spread the word. Happens that those missionaries were from a church that took up collections here in the U.S. to help the poor impoverished peasants there. So they get money at both ends, and where does it go?

I wouldn't give a tax exemption to any church that tries to influence how people vote.

I'm old enough to remember when we were "one nation indivisible" and to wish that we were indivisible again. A nation "under God" is a theocracy, and invites conflict over which God we're under.

And while I don't much care if Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, Moses, or any of those dudes existed or not, I think classes in comparative theology at the college level ought to be available, if there are textbooks large enough to mention all the religions that can be compared. Grade schools should concentrate on teaching kids how to read and write, so that in case they get converted when they grow up, and God tells them to be president, they won't make us look like we're all morans.

:kick:

... that it's almost impossible for them not to "tell people how to vote."

But I remember how astonished I was when I visited a church in a 3rd or 4th world country (rural Honduras) and found them taking up a collection from the impoverished peasants in order to help spread the word.

Don't you ever wonder when those churches are going to stop being "missions" and start being viable on their own? Some religious groups have been "missionizing" in Central America for well over a hundred years. It's amazing to me that the Word is so non-compelling that there's still a need to preach and convert. By now, there should be a native clergy in place to continue bringing the blessings of Christianity to a committed population. It couldn't possibly be colonialism, could it?


I wouldn't give a tax exemption to any church that tries to influence how people vote.

In the U.S. that would be an appropriate plan since so many of the churches have allowed themselves to become mouthpieces for the ones that keep the money coming their way.


I think classes in comparative theology at the college level ought to be available, if there are textbooks large enough to mention all the religions that can be compared.

I think they ought to be available before college level since so many people never get to college. Mythology could show how so many of the ideas and archetypical characters have been carried forward with only the names changed. Another way might be to study the religious texts from a literature standpoint, or students could learn how religion has worked in history and in science since conformity with Church teachings limited what could be studied or what could be done politically.

It seems not. What you are advocating is greater governement involvement in religion through taxation and education.

You Libertarians are so strong on getting government out of people's personal lives, but when government gives tax exemptions to churches that are politically involved and attempt to influence elections, the result can be that the policies of the people elected are more intrusive than previous administrations.

Where are your principles? How can you pretend to oppose government intrusion, while favoring tax exemptions for organizations that are known to try to exert political influence to bring about more government intrusion?

As for education, some people don't want their tax money going to schools that only teach the Koran, or for parents to have vouchers to send their kids to such schools. Separation of church and state means you teach the Koran in the mosque, and you don't talk about religion in school at all unless you do it without favoring one over another.

First, I'm not a libertarian, and it's foolish of you to state so with no evidence what so ever to indicate so.

Second, I was not arguing for or against the consequences of churches getting involved in politics. You created a straw man argument when you try to pretend that that's what I was addressing. However, since you brought it up, you might want to note that the Constitution restricts the government's involvement in religion, it quite clearly (if you've read it) places no restrictions on religions getting involved in politics.

Third, you are agreeing with me on religion and education. The original post advocates challenging beliefs about Jesus through the educational system. This would have the government injecting religious discussion into public education, something which you and I are against. Your gripe on this point should be taken up with the original poster, not me.

Thanks

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churches that participate in the political process should not be tax exempt ...

consider the following ... churches in the Boston area have been actively campaigning against candidates who supported the recent "gay marriage" ruling of the Massachusetts Supreme Court ...

a donation to that church is 100% tax deductible ... this means, if the Church chose, it could turn around and give the full donation to a candidate they support ... the federal government has essentially subsidized the donation ... when you donate a dollar to the church, it might only cost you 70 cents (based on your tax bracket) ... you can buy a dollar's worth of candidate support for 70 cents ...

now, if I make a donation to an opposing candidate, I get no tax deduction at all ... this means that if I give 70 cents, I only get 70 cents worth of support ...

the current system of giving churches a tax exemption for donations received creates in inequity in our electoral process ... it gives those who donate to churches a greater influence than those who oppose the policies of the churches ...