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NO FLAMES>> Will The People demand that the UN take over Iraq?

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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 05:39 PM
Original message
NO FLAMES>> Will The People demand that the UN take over Iraq?
Skinner made the point to me that the Dem nominee will likely not make that demand, and I agree. So we're back to square one - it really is all about *us*. Democracy means you.

Then again, given that Romes and active democracies aren't built in a day, Iraq is a moot point. How do we begin by restoring the damage Bush has done to the UN?
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. 'Iraq is a moot point' - i doubt that...
Then again, given that Romes and active democracies aren't built in a day, Iraq is a moot point. How do we begin by restoring the damage Bush has done to the UN?

but to answer your question... 'How do we begin by restoring the damage Bush has done to the UN?'

we get them INVOLVED.

how do we do that?

we PRESSURE our 'LEADERS'

i think :shrug:

peace
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. which leaders?
The Bush regime? We both know better. The Democratic leadership? As I said...

My point is that, unless the American people are finally led to the acceptance of the United Nations and what it means, we're going to keep fucking with it for our own gain.
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. OUR 'leaders', of course
you asked how do we do it, get U.N. to take over, and you admited that you and skinner didn't think the dem nominee would, so how do we do it.

i say by pressuring our leaders to by speaking our and up.

peace
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. what I mean, though,
is that I don't think that the Dem nominee, unless it's DK, CM-B or AS, will respond in that way, even to pressure. Even Dean.
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. then it sounds like we need to rally around Kucinich
or what's your idea?

:hi:

peace
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I'd dearly love to be proven wrong
but I don't think Dennis has a chance at the nomination, so I'm taking "strategic voting" to the primary level. :)
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hell's frozen over
I agree w/ Ulysses about this 100 percent--the Dem nominsee should absolutely demand that the UN take over Iraq. Chimpy tries to have it both ways--he uses the UN as a skirt to hide behind vis a vis his invasion, saying saddam continually violated UN resolutions. Then he denies the UN authority to administer the country's rebuilding. Of course, he's afraid Halliburton might have to share a little of the spoils if the UN takes over.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. heh
I agreed with sangha earlier - I expect the apocalypse at any moment.

Unless heaven and earth *do* move, the Dem nominee will not demand any such thing. Such is the reality with which we get to deal.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. Two dominant issues in the election - economy and this
I think there will be two issues in the election - economy (perpetual) and this. Sure the whole terrorism/lies/Iraq thing, but more specifically this, and I think it is going to be the clearest dividing line between the Republicans and Democrats and therefore our best issue.

Of course it ties into the deception that led us into the war as well. Did we go over there to counter a threat, however characterized, or to create an empire? Do we want to have an occupying army in Iraq, or do we want to bring our troops home.

So I guess I can't agree with the premise. I think the Dem nominee will *HAVE* to make that demand.
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anti_shrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. Doesn't matter what the people demand
Shrub doesn't listen to "focus groups", remember?
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. ...
Where to start?

Doesn't matter what the people demand

Why isn't anyone using this as a campaign slogan?

Shrub doesn't listen to "focus groups", remember?

Sure. So why do Dems?
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. 'So why do Dems?' - it depends on the focus group i suppose...
if it is corporate backed with lots of cash, they both do.

so maybe we have to woo the corporations :shrug:

peace
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. I don't think it matters one whit what "The People" demand
The U.N. is fully within its rights to say, "We're irrelevent, remember? You people let a madman take ytou to war, you people must pay the consequences for that decision. Now go pouind some sand!"
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. ?
I agree that the UN would be well within its rights to say this, but I don't understand how doing so would help the cause of Joe Iraqi.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I don't see the U.N. ever stepping in to change a thing in Iraq
I don't think "Joe Iraqi" has a thing to do with it either.

The U.N. is going to force the U.S. to eat crow over Iraq.

It will probably take the next five decades, too.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. again - ?
Walt, I don't mean to pick a fight, but first you say that the UN won't change a thing in Iraq, then that the UN will make the US eat crow over Iraq. Huh?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. It's really pretty simple
By not doing a thing, the UN forces the US to eat crow because no WMD will ever be found and the American taxpayers will have to foot a multi-trillion dollar bill to keep troops in Iraq for decades.

And the American taxpayer deserves every bit of it.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. I think the US and Britain should take care of everything
We're the ones that made an illegal, unjust war, and we should pay the check.

I think we should send 200,000 more troops to Iraq, along with AmeriCorp types and tons of supplies and provisions.
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