HELP NEEDED - proof of disinformation from Rove, Rush, and O'Reilly...

battling with a real RW nutjob who thinks Rove, Rush, and O'Reilly are as honest as the day is long.

Here's what he said about Rove:

>
> Rove I have never seen engage in disinformation,
> half truths
> care to cite ANY example???


Here's what he said about Rush:

> > Rush Limbaugh,
>
> Rush was challeged by Sacremento Bee and monitored
> by an independant
> accounting for a year
> They found his statement of facts were correct 98.7%
> of the time.
> As part of the challenge the Also monitored
> CNN 71%
> CBS 73%
> ABC 76%
> NBC 79%
> FOX 84%
>
> So while you may not agree with Rushs analysis
> He statement of facts are correct


Here's what he said about O'Reilly:


> > and O'Reilly
>
> O"Rielly not particularly right wing and goes after
> both sides


also any references and links concerning Roves attack of McCain during the 2000 election and specifically implicating him in the this attack would be deeply grateful.

Thanx to everyone and anyone for all your help,

d

I think this is the third time I have posted this! :) You are probably already aware of it, but just in case!

http://mediamatters.org/

There's alot about Rush and O'Reilly. Nothing on Rove that I have seen yet.

n/t

:toast:

I like you! :)

www.mediamatters.org

Plus Al O'Franken Debunks specific quotes by those boobs daily.
You may try his website & blog for info as well...

Also, if you can stand it, WATCH a few days of it with a note pad, & then verify it yourself! You will probably NOT be suprised about the errors & bias you spot...

Also, the www.dailyhowler.com often documents these things, and they have great archives...

Try www.snopes as well...

Doc

didn't know about mediamatters

d

"They found his statement of facts were correct 98.7%"
Did you ask for proof of this? Any link provided?

"So while you may not agree with Rushs analysis
He statement of facts are correct"
What percentage of Pigboy's daily spew is Fact as opposed to Analysis?
Did the accountant make note of that? If he has an hour show and spends it inaccurately spinning just one fact accurately presented then that survey could be completely valid and completely misleading at the same time. I've never listened to Limbaugh. I can honestly say I don't know what he sounds like...so is this scenario possible?

using it,

d


thanx alot

:toast:

HE wrote:
to what he said (as it relates to Karl Rove and his push pull campaign in NC) and "radical left" websites:

> Tou do realize
> 1) nothing in the link is true
> 2)http://www.counterpunch.org
> is a radical left website???
> 3) they are not a crediable source
>
> you keep citing the lonitic left to make your point
> http://www.counterpunch.org is of the same ilk as
> M Moore
> they lie



I wrote back:
Why is it not credible because it's (according to you)
a radical left website? What do you consider radical
left anyway?

Bush's 2000 campaign, which Rove helped run, is
largely credited by almost everyone with using the
push poll disinformation campaign against McCain in
NC.

You'll have to do better than that,

d

:yourock:

In such a situation, simply ask the nutjob to explain.

Little by little, ask him why the information you have is so much at variance with his. After he's heard himself say (or type) "The Libbrul Press!", it's going to sound like the lamest of all lame excuses.

I've tried this "technique" with about 20 people over the last several months, and it's highly effective -- maybe 75-85%. They all ended up talking themselves out of their hard-ass right-wing talking point. The ones who held fast to their worldviews probably had it shaken a little. It gives you the ability to question their bullshit on the lowest levels without pushing them into a fight.

Nobody's ideas are sacred, not even ours; but the Conservatives are living in a world of lies, rage, and terror. The more slack you give them to simply discuss it, the more you weaken the grip of the Demons that plague them.

--bkl

thank you

d

instances when he's been correct.

He's always "right" - just not "correct"!

and excellent point,

d

make him show you the survey.

he's not online right now

thanx

d

oh yeah that's credible,

d

is not credible?

NUTJOB wrote:
> go to rushs own site its there
>


Ok let me see if I got this straight. My stuff is not
credible because it was from a "radical left" website,
but I'm suppose to take a survey from a RW nutjob's
site as gospel?

I think I can close the case here that my statement,
"both sides do use disinformation to discredit the
other side" is accurate,

d



ME originally:
> dave@onemissingperson.org wrote:
>
> >
> > Or are you pulling this stuff out of your hat?
> >
> > By the way how many actual statements of fact are
> they
> > basing their 98.7% on? Did they also include, "Hi,
> my
> > name is Rush Limbaugh!" as one of their statement
> of
> > facts that they monitored?
> >
> > Also, most of Rush's show is analysis (75% - or
> more -
> > I would guess) and analysis is not statement of
> fact,
> >
> > d
> >

on AlterNet...
http://www.alternet.org/story/16080

"In your book, certainly I think it's fair to say that there's a mixture of admiration for Rove's political skills and his smarts, his strategy. But you certainly provide factual evidence that his intelligence has been put to use for strategy over principle, for anything it takes to win. And you've got some very detailed examples of that: the bugging of his own office, the gutter tactics used in unseating Jim Hightower as Texas Agriculture Commissioner, and so forth. "

thanx alot,

d

read "The Oh Really? Factor" from FAIR. A fantastic book, very well researched, which point by point proves o'reilly either dead wrong, manipulating, or obviously right leaning

bingo,

thank you

d

Karl Rove: Prince of Push Polling
By Daniel R. Morrow

http://www.webdelsol.com/The_Potomac/politics-rove.htm
If "push polling" is a crime against humanity, then justice has no chance of being served until Karl Rove, its ultra-right promoter, is seized and brought to trial. But wait a minute ... in what fair and noble land might such a thing happen? Certainly not in America, for no such justice exists. Its once passionate people are either too ignorant or apathetic to demand action. And why is that? How is it that most Americans are blissfully unaware of this remarkably despicable process that not only mocks democracy to the far edge, but finally hangs over our heads a Damocletian sword named Bush answerable only to the nation's most powerful conservative interest groups (United Polluters of America, International Cancer Stick Makers, Petrochemical Billionaire Boys Club, Weapons Inc., etc.--you know, the types who need to bribe politicians for special privileges).

First of all, what's a push poll? The National Council on Public Polls (NCPP) defines it as:

"A telemarketing technique in which telephone calls are used to canvass vast numbers of potential voters, feeding them false and damaging 'information' about a candidate under the guise of taking a poll to see how this 'information' affects voter preferences. In fact, the intent is to 'push' the voters away from one candidate and toward the opposing candidate."

The push poll is a Godzilla in sheep's clothing. The tragic thing is, the average American knows far more about Godzilla than about push polls.


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The Way Things Aren't:
Rush Limbaugh Debates Reality

FROM:
http://www.fair.org/press-releases/limbaugh-debates-reality.html
Rush Limbaugh has gotten a lot of mileage out of his
claim that volcanoes do more harm to the ozone layer
than human-produced chemicals. He featured it in his
best-selling book, The Way Things Ought to Be
(paperback edition pp. 155-157): "Mount Pinatubo in
the Philippines spewed forth more than a thousand
times the amount of ozone-depleting chemicals in one
eruption than all the fluorocarbons manufactured by
wicked, diabolical and insensitive corporations in
history.... Mankind can't possibly equal the output of
even one eruption from Pinatubo, much less 4 billion
years' worth of them, so how can we destroy ozone?"

Limbaugh calls concern about the ozone layer:
"balderdash. Poppycock." The only people who worry
about it are "environmental wackos," "dunderheaded
alarmists and prophets of doom."

Syndicated columnist Thomas Sowell (New York Post,
1/14/94) used the volcano theory as Exhibit A to
illustrate Limbaugh's "very well-informed and savvy
understanding of the political issues of our time."
"While far more pretentious people have been joining
the chorus of hysteria over 'global warming,'" Sowell
wrote, "Limbaugh pointed out in his book that
one of the high readings of greenhouse gases in the
atmosphere came right after a volcanic eruption--and
volcanoes can put more gases into the atmosphere than
the entire human race."

The alert reader will notice that Sowell has mixed up
global warming and the ozone layer, two different
problems. Still, Sowell concluded of Limbaugh, "It is
obvious that the man has done his homework--and done
it well."


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Karl Rove and Push Polls disinformation...

Push poll

FROM:
http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Push_poll
A push poll is where, using the guise of opinion
polling, disinformation about a candidate or issue is
planted in the minds of those being 'surveyed'.
Push-polls are designed to shape, rather than measure,
public opinion.

Examples include:

Bush’s campaign strategists, including Karl Rove,
devised a push poll against John McCain. South
Carolina voters were asked “Would you be more likely
or less likely to vote for John McCain for president
if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black
child?”. They had no interest in the actual
percentages in the poll, the goal was to suggest that
he had. This was particularly vicious since McCain was
campaining with his adopted Bangladeshi daughter. The
sight of the little dark skinned girl made the seed
planted earlier grow and John McCain lost South
Carolina, effectively ending his run for the
presidency.

Salon.com reported on a push poll that was designed to
remind voters which candiates were Jewish, or had high
ranking Jewish campaign staff.<1>

External links:
==================
Kathy Frankovic, "The Truth About Push Polls",
CBSNews.com, February 14, 2000.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/02/14/politics/main160398.shtml

Paula Gibbs, "Push Poll Callers Contacting Voters",
Wiscasset Newspaper, September 12, 2002.
http://wiscassetnewspaper.maine.com/2002-09-12/push_poll_callers.html

"Public Opinion Strategies Push Poll", Mother Jones,
May/June 1996.
http://www.motherjones.com/news/special_reports/1996/05/push_poll.html

Daniel R. Morrow, "Karl Rove: Prince of Push Polling",
The Potomac, December 17, 2003
http://www.webdelsol.com/The_Potomac/politics-rove.htm


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Just listen to his show...spending 50 minutes per hour bashing Democrats, the ACLU, unions, gays, muslims, arabs, and anyone who doesn't share his opinon compared to 10 minutes on how he disagrees with Rummy on how many a-rabs we kill doesn't make him fair and balanced.

Rush has been proven wrong so often it's amazing anyone can try to defending him.