I used to live in North Dakota

I know lots of liberals who still live in North Dakota. My mom hates Bush almost as much as I do now and she still lives there. And yet if someone were to say North Dakota is unwinnable I wouldn't be offended, or argue that because I can name 10 liberals who live there the state is winnable. Furthermore if someone were to bash the racist hicks who regard the Indian Reservations as leaches, rural wackos in counties that gave Buchanan as much as 10%, or nutcases who write letters to the Bismarck Tribune calling Harry Potter the tool of Satan, I wouldn't be offended.

So why should someone be offended if someone says that their state is unwinnable, or by bashing the Bush lovers, racists or idiots who can't get over the Civil War who happen to live in the same state? For some reason this seems to translate into bashing everyone who lives in those states. Find me a thread where someone has said every single person who lives in the south is racist, or flies a Confederate flag, ect.

isn't about projecting YOUR feelings on to someone else based on your situation, it is about attempting to understand THEIR feelings based on their situation.

Wondering about why someone else is or isn't offended - takes a bit of ability of empathy.

Instead of whining about why don't people feel as you would... ask WHY it offends them and gain an understanding. Bet you will get some contextual answers responses that might broaden your understanding a bit.

Then you can still go off and offend in the future but at least you will know how and why it is read as offensive some others.

how's late summer life in the Hossier state?

just seemed like it needed to be said.

Things are hot and humid and all around unpleasant in this late August southern Indiana climate. And how are things in Arkansas?

hot, humid, miserale.

:hi:

*your state's unwinnable, why should any recourses or effort be given down there?* So sorry we don't live in utopia where all the candidates win by popular vote, not by that pesky electoral college.
WE LIVE HERE, we try not to foul our own nest.

I've taken most of the gd southern-bashing threads with a grain of salt since I realized that they come around on a fairly regular basis.
Damned if I'm gonna leave, either, but if that viewpoint is common, no wonder we have a problem winning elections.

If you want to read some insulting threads that broad-brush, go find anything by Ordinary Ta.

"your state's unwinnable, why should any recourses or effort be given down there?"

That's exactly the way I see it. The Dem candidate shouldn't spend 1 cent on trying to win ND since even with all the money in the world It would still go to Bush by at least 60%. There are winnable states that money should be spent on.

btw, I'm not a "fellow Dem" since I don't call myself a Democrat. I'm an independent. I'll vote for Democrats but since the party isn't far left enough for me I'll never consider myself one.

If you don't contest it, then the poll numbers will not encourage you to contest it even more. Perhaps the best judge of whether it is winnable is the judgement of the party organization within the state.

Do you believe there is a realistic chance of winning ND in 2004?

in a congressional one, that maybe the case. BTW, the party organization in most the questioned states is non existent in many areas. Particularly the basin states. It isn't the fault of the dems either. It means there weren't enough dems in that area interested in organizing anything. Hint Hint.

when in the end it'd be a fight like hell for 3 measly electoral votes, when we could far easily carry another state for much larger.

the point is though, that doesn't mean ND can be won. The same way that some liberals live in some southern states doesn't mean they can be won.

What are Democrats saying that North Dakotans don't understand? That's the whole point to me. The bashing is ridiculous, but ignoring the fact that half the country isn't hearing the Democratic message concerns me even more. Because the ideology of that half of the country seems to be winning 'hearts and minds', more and more, in the liberals states as well.

why do you think I left?

I can say for a fact that you could tell most of these stupid fuckers a thousand times over not to stick their hand in fire and they would stick their hand in fire, even after they'd done it many times before. I have been involved in campaigning in SD for 12 years and it's like pissing into the wind.

Many of the people in South Dakota are PROUDLY ignorant. It is a statewide tradition, pursued with religious fervency. Imagine if you will...successfully teaching your kid that 2+2=4. Now imagine that your kid, when tested on his math skills, writes 2+2=5. When you ask your kid if he forgot that 2+2=4, he says no, that he didn't forget. When you ask him why he didn't do the problem correctly on his test, he replies that he likes 2+2=5 better than 2+2=4 and that he will always do the problem incorrectly because that is the way he wants to do it....in spite of the fact that he will be penalized if he does. That is the mentality you deal with in my redneck state of South Dakota.

Maybe I should move to Boston, eh? Nothing like standing in front of a like minded crowd, putting into words, that which everyone in attendance already believes and basking in a warm applause. Then again, allot of us good ole boys call that preaching to the choir and figure it is worth about as much as gum stuck on the sole of our shoe.

The only hope for SD is that there are currently many Californians moving into the Western part of the state....unfortunately most of them are right wing developer/real-estate types who realize the pickings are rich in stupidville. I continue to campaign and write and raise hell, in hopes of reaching a couple of folks here and there....maybe attract some of the younger ones who are still in a rebellious stage and haven't recognized the freedom youth gives them to leave this shithole and move someplace civilized. Most of the kids with a good head on their shoulders do leave though....they recognize that they are and always will be the distinct minority here. People who demonstrate intellect are shunned and ostracized. It takes a thick skin to deal with that year after year.

I'd have to say that any sort of Presidential campaign expenditures in South Dakota would be a complete and total waste of money. You'd get more for party money using it as toilet paper than you'd get spending it in my state.

RC

They also like to have their cake and eat it too. That's why they keep electing Dem senators: pork. They may whine about big government, high taxes and the typical freeper whine, but they have no problem electing Dem senators to bring home pork that's a result of those things. The only Democrats they want in office are ones that can bring home pork, and an out of state president isn't one.

Funny about that pork ain't it? Johnson and Daschle bring it home, slimey "liberal" bastards that they are. Johnson just landed a HUGE water project in SD. Multi-million dollar federally subisidized system designed to supply water starved portions of the state. A little welfare courtesy of them gosh darn blue states.....you know the ones, with all those lazy Democrat votin nigroes livin off the federal dole. The ones who pump three dollars in subsidies into the state for every one dollar that leaves in income tax. Well, that water project just went down the shitter, thanks to AWOL Georges tax cut, the one that ain't gonna do 99% of the people that live in the Dakotas a shit bit of good, but they're to proudly ignorant to appreciate. Predictably, the same 99% of these mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, rednecks aren't aware of the fact that their tax cutting hero AWOL, just turned off their water.


RC

screw everyone else. When things go wrong they won't put them blame on old Genocide George, just whine about the Democrats in congress, and Daschle their ringleader. But they'll still vote Daschle in again in a landslide because he keeps pumping up the state. In their view the Democrats are screwing the rest of the country to no end but as long as they benefit they'll keep voting for everyone else. A good way to sum them up is socialists who want to live in a libertarian society.

Right on the money!!

RC

Many in that area of the country have created a national reputation for seeming to want to dictate their religious views to the rest of the country. It's called the "Bible Belt" for a reason.

in 10 yrs, I don't want the democrats wasting time on it in the next Presidential election.

People generally hang out here because they like to discuss politics, after all.

The complaints have been about broad-brush denunciations of all things Southern, and about the bizarre delusion, which also used to be popular at Table Talk, that if it weren't for the benighted south, America would arrive in Liberal Nirvana, with Ralph Nader descending from heaven in a golden chariot and free tofu and Birkenstocks for all.

That sort of thing is silly, of course, but I can't remember anyone complaining about strategy discussions. Some of us, including yours truly, thought that "writing off" big chunks of the country would simply allow Bush to spend his $200,000,000 in Democratic states and thus not be a very good idea, but I don't think it's a matter of bashing.

red states, and the former CSA has about half of them, but that is just History what if.

kinda like drunk freshmen discussing "Whoa dude--what if Jim Morrison is really alive hanging out with Jimi Hendrix?" but it's just about as relevant, too.

And as I liked to ask people during the Liberal Nirvana bullshit sessions, what are you going to do with the Central Valley in California? Orange County? Upstate New York? Southern Illinois? Taking the Liberal Nirvana argument to its logical extreme would lead to a "nation" that consists of a few tiny enclaves huddled on the coasts.

Since I live in the real world and I'm far too old for beer-fueled bullshit sessions in the dorm, I'm much more interested in how we can get the votes of enough of those who are not on our side now in order to win elections.

and they were hard-core Democrats, my father was born there and became a repuke but NOW he also is a Democrat. I have an uncle that lived in ND and was a repuke too but everyone in the family acknowledges that he was nuts anyway.:crazy:

devotion doesn't matter, numbers do. The most hardcore Democrat on the planet in the voting booth still has 1/10 the clout as 10 Rushbot lemmings. That's basically the case in this state, the ignorant Republican masses may not have as much devotion, but they can't overcome due to sheer numbers. However they can be tricked into voting for Democratic senators in exchange for agricultural pork. But vote for a Democrat for president, no chance in hell.

including on people's cars....

check out this 'sons of traitors' license plate...

Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles sells it for only $10, so you can see the 'traitor' flags not only on businesses and houses, but sanctioned to be on CARS all over the highway....

the Civil War battlefields have been highjacked by those glorifying traitors to the United States of America...it makes me sick to go to any civil war battlefields, because of the slanted view portraying the glory of the confederacy (traitors to America is NEVER mentioned)...



check out this story...the Virginians in the Capital city Richmond cannot stand the idea of a statue of President Lincoln, one of America's greatest Presidents...this is typical of the attitude here in the heart of the traitors...living in the past with pinheads...
http://www.redding.com/news/national/past/20030330nat014.shtml

I wouldn't want to visit there.
:evilgrin: