Flame me, but can't we raise the level of discourse here?

Come on, DU. We are better than the Freepers, right? Here is my response to some of today's ...um.. threads..

"I will say this once...WE DON'T NEED THE FUCKING SOUTH"
BULLSHIT. We need Florida and Tennessee and Arkansas and Louisiana and Georgia.

"who will be the 08 GOP nominee? Whether or not Bush is beat in 04"?
Who the fuck knows or cares…

"Is there any point in liberal Southerners sticking around DU"?
Why the hell not; they are just as good as any of us..

"Why the south sucks"
No, only some southerners do, just like some northerners suck..

"Are Conservatives Evil? How about Bush"?
Bush- of course. Conservatives in general ? Of course not

"Gringo is an anti-southern bigot"
Some of my best friends are Southerners - like Al Gore.

"It's nearly time to cut Davis loose"
How, by voting NO recall and then voting for Bustamante? Or voting YES and being a total asshole.

"Ahnold LOVES beer and nicotine"!
So does my best friend. Who gives a fuck?.

action like the person giving the www.no-recall.com site.

Kick. :kick:

it's gotten so I pass over far more posts than I read . . . I'm interested in provocative and enlightened discussion around a single theme: reclaiming this country from the BFEE and its allied corporations . . . everything else is just keyboard masturbation, imo (with the exception of lounge posts, of course, which fulfill a different function) . . .

the number one job we all share is to end the Bush junta and restore America.

All this crap is frustrating.

I've also passed over more posts than I read. I've started going to Buzzflash first, instead of here.

These past couple of days have been stinkers.

Hey, there are over 30,000 people hanging out here at some time or other. Of all the lists, newsgroups and other stuff I'm involved in, I can't think of any others that have this many active members, and it is still a valuable resource and meeting place.

The downside is that there will be a lot of disagreements on side issues, a lot of chatter, and the occasional asshole. It's also tough to hold any kind of conversation with things moving so fast.

With any high-volume list, and I can think of a few unmoderated newsgroups with volume almost as high, it ends up with each of us doing our own filtering. Such is life.

The admins and moderators undoubtedly have their hands full with all the bitching going on, and trying to stop the blatant trolling and bashing, but they can't do it all. It would be nice if we had a "kill thread" function, but I don't know if that's even possible with this sort of online software. It might be nice if they took the lounge out of the 10 pages of "latest," but they already talked about that, and there are downsides there, too.

The only thing we all have in common is that we are trying to promote the Democratic party and hold back a Republican steamroller. We can't all even agree on that, though, or how best to do it. If some people offend with their comments on candidates, race, the South, homosexuality, religion, or any other damn thing, or are just plain stupid and boring, such is life. Maybe call 'em on it once and then let it go.

Dunno about anyone else, but I sure don't have time to take on every asshole I meet.

like i have the power to bestow tha taward

good post and i agree

No one can read every post.

Far too often, many of us waste a good deal of time reading and posting to facecious and capricious threads. If that is what keeps your motor running fine; we need all types here, and a little comic relief, or venting never hurts.

But to overload GD with such threads can be somewhat irritating, especially for those that are just coming here. We will all move towards cliques, that is human nature, we bond to those that have the same basic beliefs and interests; however, there does seem to be a bit too much of the, 'off subject' stuff lately.

As you state, our main objective is to band together and remove bush from office; our common bond is the immense dislike for this administration. It would do us all well, to remember that, and keep many of these threads in the Lounge.

When I refer DU to people, just about the last thing I really want them to see is, "Have you ever lit your dick on fire"? While I thought that was funny, I'm not sure I want first time visitors to see that. I recommend this site as an alternative to the RW agenda, and I have nothing but the highest respect for all here, but if first timers come here and feel they have found a site where people sit around contemplating immolating their private parts, I wonder what passes through their minds.

In any case, I will never advocate censorship, (except self censorship), but I would suggest that we never lose sight of our what most of us consider our main mission at this time: Getting rid of bush and his destructive troop of babboons!

Thanks for putting up with me, btw!

:kick:

Not on the above mentioned threads but others. THough I love DU and treasure it as a respite from the Republicans I'm surrounded by, I think we sometimes get a little carried away.
I'm not sure that there's any piece of legislation or general act that any Republican could propose that would not be met with total disdain here. Even if it would benefit any number of the causes most of us believe in.
And while we're laying it all out, I'd also like to say that Gray Davis is an exceedingly average governor. Probably below average. He's also the victim of piss poor luck such as the tech bust etc. Does that mean he should be recalled? Shit no. But he's not an effective governor. It disturbed most people can't admit that. It's nothing personal against him. I'm sure he's a nice guy. He's just not particuarly good at what he does.

I'm not talking about curse words per se, but the tone that is set in our writing. You can be polite as can be and still inflame someone with a passion, or you can call someone an Asshole and they laugh at you. Its all in context and I would never ask for DU to be censored, but one thing that would help is for its members to THINK before they TYPE. Reread your posts, make sure the tone you are conveying is the tone you want to present. How many times have people posted sarcasm and it was taken wrong? A lot of things make up our language besides words so members on a forum such as ours have to be cautious with the way their words are displayed on someone else's machine. Of course, we get the flame-bait and the assholes and freeps, but I would like to think that most of the members here, even if they disagree, would keep a civil tone. I would think that if only one thing can mark someone a Liberal it is this: That Liberals are able to reasonable consider the perspective or view of a stranger, and either reject it or adopt it, but to do so without disregarding it out of hand.

:kick:

On a mass email I sent out recently, I included a link for Top 10 Conservative Idiots. None of the people on my list knew about DU, and I thought this would be a good way to promote DU (the Top 10 is how I found DU).

So, when I went to the Discussion Boards later that day and saw all the vitriolic threads bashing Kerry, bashing Dean, bashing Southerners, blah blah blah blah blah, I felt like sending out an apology to everyone on the list.

It's not the passionate debate and heated disagreements here (that's been one of the best features of DU, actually: a place to air different viewpoints, engage in debate and discussion and maybe come away with a larger insight into an issue than you had when you first arrived); it's the vehemence, intolerance, name-calling, smearing with innuendo, etc., that are permeating many of the forums. I'm very reluctant to visit DU anymore, let alone recommend it to newcomers.

I think the mods better fix some guidelines quick, its really embarassing to see the threads with over 100 posts are internal squabble.


Make some rules, no south bashin etc etc, i didnt like those rules they tested before but i do like them now

Common sense is.

I am also upset with the tone of this beloved forum lately. The days of constructive debate of the issues have been replaced with the constant, "My candidate is better than yours" threads.

I am beginning to ignore most of these threads. They serve no purpose. They make us all look immature, and they need to stop.

I would hope we all have enough intelligence to see this and stop on our own, without having a ring put in our nose by the administrators of DU.

We have enough oppression in our everyday lives, and we don't need to be stifled here with more posting rules.

The offenders know who they are, and I would respectfully request that you cease and desist from this moment forward.

Just my $.02

I liked Skinner's temporary rules for GD and think they helped. I think they should be made permanent. It's getting harder and harder to find the high-quality, though-provoking discussions that initially drew me here. I think we can do better.

Thanks for that post. I am also getting really tired of the constant vulgarity in posts.

...and now some posters are taking advantage of their new 'freedom' to be as vulgar as they want to be. I thought the 'temporary' rules made for a much more readable general discussion. Now it looks like a free for all...or FReeperVille II.

- If this continues...the DU board will suffer from a drop in donations...especially from those of us who were once proud to post here.

seems to be the same as the ones pointed out.

in your observation.

But the big difference here, is that some of those who find some of the other threads distressing, are having an opportunity to address that situation without being either ignored nor flamed. Far to often, there are those that speak loudest and most vociferously that receive all of the air time. Those that take a calmer and more thoughtful approach get either ignored or shouted down. In this thread, (as should be in all threads), many are voicing dissent without fear of being crushed under the weight of the more vociferous.

There is some very good wisdom and understanding coming from this thread...it would bode all well to look into what is being said, and more inporatnatly, HOW it is being said.

What's DU for if not a little ranting and raving and fuming and venting now and then. Especially when the political frustration level is so high. My only problem is when the issue turns personal against a fellow DUer (e.g. "You're too stupid, (FILL IN NAME HERE), to know your (FILL IN NAME OF BODY PART HERE) from a hole in the ground...).

"Kumbaya"!

and each person does it in their own way. anyway, thats my take on it. I dont have a problem with it, these are hard times for us all.

...but at what point do we address the most corrupt administration in history? Threads directed at solving problems and asking tough questions drop like rocks while attack threads prosper.

- Are we here to discuss politics and ideas or to stroke the egos of a few LOUD posters?

I sort of sift thru the threads and check out the ones I want to read...
I just feel sorry for us all, the level of Hell the US is in right now is so neurotic, so terrifying, so horrific since 2000...we are all a little crazed, and I guess I am empathatic to that ....
Its quite sad being a US citizen right now, and we mostly live in terror of whats next from the Thugs in charge of our country...

Maybe younger people vent in their own way.........if I were younger, (way younger lol), I guess Id be scared to death of the future of this country and my own future..as it is, Im scared to death of the last remaining years I have here, which is a lot less then a 16 yr olds...

but I am not afraid of these people, I loathe them.

They will pass, and the damage done can be repaired; but it will take a concerted effort, not the usual sit back and take it scenario.

The election is far to distant for all of the situations to come together and gel for the overthrow of this regime, but as we get closer, hope will spring up and we will put these issues to rest once and for all.

I used to spend a lot of time on this board. Discussions were far more substantive and meaningful. Now the good ones breeze by in no time, supplanted by these nonsense threads worthy of teenagers (no offense to teenagers). And most of the "discussion" even on the important threads consists of a title plus a single line.

I am constantly astounded at the low level of the thread subjects. You have cited just a few.

Perhaps a daily evaluation of these, holding the worst up for ridicule, might help.

and people are now looking for ways to vent frustration.

But I must say, this site should never become a freefalling melee
into some sort of flamefest hell.

We must never lose sight that our primary objective is the expulsion of bush & co. The ONLY way that will happen is when we come together as a bloc and realize the enemy is no longer at the gate, it is among the people of the country, an wreaking havoc with our liberties and our lives. When we come together, we will crush the GOP for years to come; but it all hinges on solidarity.

Instead of holding the worst up to ridicule, I would much rather have a synopsis of the best posts most worthy of our attention. I think it would be much more productive to praise, rather than embarrass, our fellow posters.

It also would be helpful for those who have limited time to go through the board. They could just go straight to the best. I think that was the idea behind the thread-rating system, had it worked.

on this board who are just dying to bring back the "temporary" rules from last week. Ughh. It's starting to sound like my 4 and 7 year old grandsons are here.

Sensitivity is for dickless wimps!!!!!

Bash away, baby!!!!

We gotta thicken our skins!!!!

Usenet is FREE SPEECH. YIPPEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

...No rules or civility...just payback and revenge.

- This isn't your private playground...where you can act like a child having a tantrum.

You will get 25 to life in sometimes for distrubiting large amounts of Marijuana, Ashcroft ordered the arrest of paraphenelia manufacturers. They have taken away our civil liberties. The list goes on about rules.

I have tried posting serious issues here such as Illegal immigrants and not gotten a single response!!

Americans don't vote Democrat because we don't address the issues they care about. We need to end the chicken-shit attitude and tackle the tough issues like how to secure our borders!!!

let's secure our borders so no more brown people move in and completely ruin the neighborhood.

Democrats would get a lot of respect if we advocate controlling the flow of illegals coming into the US.

There is a process for legal immigration. Supporting corporations for exploiting almost slave labor in abhorrent conditions, while taxpayers pay billions for social services is nothing to be proud of!!!

I've edited the post to be more clear.

I will always be against ILLEGAL entry into the country.

I have no animosity towards anyone who wishes to come here to live in Liberty and try to move ahead. But for those that continuously flaunt the rules and regulations, I show nothing but scorn.

Unfortunately, your description of the corporate thugs is appropriate, all they are looking for is cheap labor, and when those people get hurt, they are tossed ouot into the street with nothing. I am ashamed to have these types of businesses in this country.

cause I believe in Freedom of Speech. I plead guilty of posting stuff on GD which probably should go in the lounge (like modified lyrics or poems) but I post them on GD because they are ALL political and anti-Bush. To rant against southerners or greens or conservatives is the last thing we need here.

Every damn one of my threads relates to the Bush cabal. I will bash Dems if they deserve it by acting like wimps or knocking liberals - such as the DLC, Lieberman or Daschle.

Recently, I have been posting links from google to kick-start discussion on PowerGridGate.

I wear my Tinfoil Hat proudly. Nothing happens by chance in Politics.

Ultimately, our goal should be to raise awareness - for DUers, the Media, Dems, Repub and other lurkers - by highlighting the daily raping of our system by the Bush Cabal. We have much fertile stuff for discussion and analysis. As recently as six months ago, we were questioning whether we lived in a fascist state. Can there be any question now?

I remember when I posted the Encyclopedia of Computer Fraud. All the work of getting the links had been done by others ( the articles, the links to them, etc.). By posting it on DU and having it kicked for over a month, we raised awareness of this issue. There is no longer any question that fraud occurred in 2002. Virtally all of us can agree that Georgia, Minnesota and Texas were stolen.

I also posted 500 Questions on 9/11. I didn't do the work; others did. I just did some editing. This was picked up by other sites.

And the Four Bush Quizzes are up on QuestionW. Presenting the facts as multiple choice questions is the best way I know to spread the word on the Bush Resume, the parallels to the rise of Hitler and our home-grown fascism, as well as the pathetic Bush record in office. I want Bush gone. Period.

By writing letters to Gore and Carter and Rather and Blitzer on DU, I get my frustrations out knowing that they will either see it or hear about it, either from friends, associates or from e-mail blasts.

By doing probability analysis of 2002 Senate races, I hope to lay the foundation of a circumstantial case for fraud. Initially, the post met with resistance, but I kept at it, and believe that most disbelievers in the methodology came around.

Same with the JFK assassination. My analysis of the probability of all those witnesses dying unnatural deaths within a year of the assasination proved (at least to me) that the odds of no conspiracy are close to zero. But the key point is it got some great responses from DUers who did their own analysis -and provided an amazingly quick confirmation of mine - and that of the British actuary who did the original analysis shortly after the assasination - and was vilified for it by those defending the Warren Report in the House Select Committee on Asssainations in 1977. Well, he was right.

The point being: yes, we are constantly lied to. We didn't know it in 1963, but we sure know it now, don't we?

the GOP, the neo-cons and all others who would oppress the people of this country and the world. No problem with any of that.

As for JFK...there is only one thing I am sure of, Oswald did not shoot JFK. All else has been so convoluted, it is almost impossible to untangle.

Of couorse, if Oswald did not shoot JFK, someone, or some others had to. Hence, conspiracy...where this will all lead, is an enigma.

I'm with you, things used to be on a higher level. I think a lot may change after school starts. I hope so anyway. Here have a beer on me and don't let the immaturity get you down. :beer: :bounce: :-)

I'm with you all the way.

have resulted in a good and intelligent discussion sink like a rock because no one was interested in the subject. Perhaps because it would have required some fact checking to do so and posters didn't want to spend the time.

If they cannot debate, discuss, or pose argument they must disrupt through other means.

RE: "Are Conservatives Evil? How about Bush"?

Nobody said that conservatives are evil, but there has been a discussion on the Bush question. It's not a given.

I think it interesting to consider the level of dualism going on here. Some are quite opposed to it, where some encourage it.

I've been influenced to think in a more dualistic way since I've been participating on DU and I partly wanted to explore what I thought about it.

You are certainly welcome to ignore whatever threads you find to be meaningless. I certainly do.

...not whether to ignore them. It seems that some posters need to start a thread every time they have a thought or brainfart. The existance of dozens of these threads makes it difficult to find wotthwhile posts and knocks the thought-provoking threads to to the next page before they can even be read.

- That some refuse to follow the rules of respect and civility deters from the main purpose (politics) and reflects poorly on the style and nature of the board.

- Boards without rules governing civility are doomed to look and feel like every other hack board on the net. From the perspective of having been here since (almost) the beginning of DU...the changes...the things happening to this board can't be called positive.

however, sometimes we just want to get a single point across.

against a group such as conservatives or southern liberals makes no sense to me.

well, lets see people seem to get away with generalizing about fundamentalists, nazis, "right-wingers", neo-cons, republicans...

Others generalize about liberals - those who think liberals are evil for instance. I don't think it's all that unreasonable to wonder if some people here think the reverse about conservatives - or Bush supporters.

I don't think it's worthy of calling out on a thread like this - I'll put it that way.

shall we say, "interesting" threads. Even the rantings of the wild may contain keys to how things may be made better.

But it is often far to difficult to read through everything to get to wisdom, and rarely, an epiphany.

As should everyone else, I tend to avoid the overtly ridicualous subject line, unless it is so far beyond the realm of of rationality, that my interest is piqued and I cannot resist a foray into the swamp.

Many are far less tolerant thay I, and some are more tolerant; in either case, I am concerned for the newest of our guests and those that seek fuel to destroy what we fight for. Fun, questions and fire is all fine, unless it takes down the very things we believe in. In this we should show some discretion.

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with family going back four generations.

But whatever you say, boss.

perhaps once the newer members learn that this is not an AOL chat room...things will improve

keeping the faith

I am a fairly new poster but I have been lurking for awhile now. As someone else stated, I too am scroll past the inflammatory threads in search of topics that interest me. If people keep commenting in them even to acknowledge that they are disruptive and should be elsewhere, that only keeps them popping back to the top.

I recommend DU to friends because it is a good resource for news...nothing like having over 30,000 eyes scanning the news everywhere. Also for the Top 10 list but for the rest of the forums, I pretty much advise everyone to take 'em as you find 'em these days. :eyes:

If folks are THAT frustrated that they feel the need to get on here spew hatred and ignorance, may I suggest getting out there and really working hard for your candidate? We worked for Kucinich at the OK Dem Forum last Tuesday and I came away totally exhausted but feeling more cleansed and encouraged than I had in a long time. Knowing that we have meetings and events coming up that we need to prepare for is also great for relieving the stresses we're all under. It's really a constructive and terrific way to work off those frustrations over the current regime. ;)

Peace~

I came hoping to learn things that would help me win over some of my friends. But I find a more civilized discourse on some of the other sites. There are some wonderful and serious people here, but don't you think that "potty mouths" and the mean-spirited could find another venue? It's embarrassing.

:evilgrin:

Hi! And welcome to DU. We are experiencing difficulties at the moment. Please stand by. :hi:

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