Curiousity killed the cat

The following is a question intended to bring about objective discussion. Be forewarned that I am not advocating any type of violent actions.

I've begun to wonder exactly what the limit is for tyranny. What is the limit that people will take before actually taking action? The south obviously felt they had had their limit, felt that they were being 'occupied' by what, in their minds, was a remote authority, once the civil war ended. At least one person acted on that belief with an assassination.

I don't know the story behind JFK at all, which is sad considering I'm in college. That's just a tribute to our public educational system though, as they never taught me and I was never interested enough to find out for myself.

So by my count there have been two presidential assassinations. How many others were attempted? What limits were crossed that drove someone to do it, or to attempt it? And finally, perhaps the question that will get me killed, do you think if Bush were elected again, anyone in America would be driven to try?

Again, I'm not advocating anything like this. I'm merely trying to figure out how oppressed we are, or how oppressed we feel we are, as compared to how the south felt, before or after the civil war.

If this post gets pulled, I'll understand entirely.

- Rawb

and bearing in mind I'm Canadian, there were 4 presidents assassinated, 2 impeached, and 1 resigned.

Who am I forgetting? Neither impeachment (Andrew Johnson and Clinton) was sufficient to convict and remove from office. Nixon's resignation was in the face of almost certain impeachment and highly probable conviction.

On edit: Oh, I remember now ... Garfield. Yup. Four.

yep... i feel stupid =D

But even more... it just makes me wonder what they did to upset people that much, enough to be unwilling to wait until the end of term to take action.

PS - i still blame the public school system, but that's cuz i like cop-outs

correction - * was not elected, therefore, he could not be "elected again".

One of my favorite quotes.

Kucinich '04
www.kucinich.us

were done in by nutjobs, unless you subscribe to one of the many conspiracy theories about JFK.

Garfield was shot by a lawyer who was looking for a job, Lincoln by a small group of conspirators, McKinley by a crazed anarchist, JFK by who knows who, and Reagan was almost shot by a nutcase who wanted to impress Jodie Foster. There were a couple of other assassination attempts that slip my mind, but I can't be arsed to look them up at the moment.

Aside from Lincoln, where we were just in a serious shootin' war, there was no talk of "tyranny" in any of these assassinations. Even with Lincoln, it's doubtful all that many Confederate partisans wanted him dead enough to support the deed.

Nope, bad as Shrub is, and as much as he's hated by so many of us, there's no thought of assassination by serious Shrubbashers. If he does get done in, it will be by a lone sick, sad, nutjob, and we will all mourn the passing of yet another President because the nation mourns dead Presidents. (We won't mourn him as much as we would some others, though-- let's not get carried away.)

by Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme.

Also, there was speculation that when Zangaro shot Mayor Czernak of Chicago, it was an attempt on FDR.

Regarding your question: "And finally, perhaps the question that will get me killed, do you think if Bush were elected again, anyone in America would be driven to try?"

Who knows? I don't think there is any way to predict. I also think he is the least accessible (p)resident.

And I'm sure you didn't mean to say elected "again".

eom

I remember what happened to Brady.

Just for fun, try Googling -- Bush Hinckley assassionation --

You'll get an eyefull.

Was it dinner the night before or the week before (with Neil Bush)? Quite a coincidence, isn't it?

These are all from memory, so I'm fuzzy on the details, but . . .

Gerald Ford was targeted at least twice, once by Squeaky Fromme (one of the Manson tribe) and once by another woman.

FDR was shot at before his first inauguration, and the mayor of Chicago, who was standing next to him, was killed. The reasons aren't clear, and at least some people think the mayor was the real target. (I believe it was supposedly gang-related.)

There was some sort of attack on Harry Truman by Puerto Rican nationalists. I think they shot up Blair House, while he was living there because the White House was being remodelled, but I don't think they actually got near the president.

In this country, trying to kill the president is no more than a stunt -- it has nothing to do with any real desire to change society.


On edit: Thinking further, I realize should have said it has nothing to do with any left-wing desire to reform society -- but it may have a lot to do with right-wing power moves. Big difference there.

Judging by the stuff I've read here, it seems you're right, except possibly for the Lincoln instance. I've read a lot of stuff about Lincoln that was less-than-acceptable to me, about certain liberties he took away during times of war, some of which seemed reasonable, some of which didn't. The reason I asked the question was because I hadn't heard anything about the other ones, and really had no idea why they were killed.

I guess I just talk to and associate with people who believe the entire constitution has been perverted as of late. I listen to punk, and go to punk shows, and a bunch of people there agree that about 50% of the stuff written in the constitution has been overruled, bastardized, or flat-out ignored. I like the constitution... the one that gives lots more power to the states, the one that has no standing army, the one that doesn't let us keep our hands in every nation's politics. That was a good constitution, and I lament it's change.

Teddy Roosevelt was shot while campaigning as a Progessive.

(Don't know if that actually counts, though.)

and only after the speech did he go to the hospital. For all of Teddy's flaws, the man had cojones made of steel.

was that assassination done by a "nutjob"...a number of confederates (traitors to America) were involved and several people subsequently hanged for being in on the plot...such planning and precision can hardly be attributed to just a 'nutjob' (as traitor confederate sympathizes claim)...if you go to the Ford Theatre museum, there is the tux that Lincoln was wearing, with pieces pulled out that were covered with his blood, grabbed by confederates as souveniers because their plot was so successful...

reagun was shot by John Hinkley of Evergreen Colorado...there remains serious concern about involvement by the benefactors (should reagun have died, bush1 would have assumed the Presidency immediately), since amazingly, in a Nation of over 260 Million people, Neil Bush (bush1's other son) admitted planning to have dinner with Hinkley's brother the night that John Hinkley shot reagun (and lawyers claimed that Hinkley had no idea what was happening, yet he traveled across the country, shot 6 bullets and HIT 6 people, which indicates ability to plan and function and many thought that investigation was totally inadequate because the BFEE relationships slipped by)...reagun survived and the dinner was cancelled, so bush1 did not assume the Presidency...lots of questions about this attempt have never been answered and nobody gets to talk to Hinkley...it also appeared that John Hinkley's parents were oil barons and close friends of bush1 and bush2 and son Neil bush....my my my....??? maybe this story is what Sharon bush recently threatened to tell everyone, unless she got a better divorce settlement from neil...afterall, she would know...

JFK assassination seems also to have the possibility of a benefactor, Lyndon Johnson, or others have put forward cuban plots or other enemies...it can hardly be called a 'nutjob' since lots of people wonder if Lee Harvey Oswald really did it...it seemed odd that lee had travelled to russia several times..that the investigation was mangled and incomplete, that there appeared to be several shots from several different places...that lee was himself shot by Jack Ruby almost as soon as lee was captured, and Jack died from cancer in jail, so he couldn't talk either...lots of questions about whether this was a big plot and who didn't want lee to talk and possibly tell all....

the two attempts on Gerald Ford were indeed "nutjobs', but also failures...the difference is notable, since both would-be assassins were long time Charles Manson druggies, Squeaky Fromme pointed the gun right into Ford, but didn't know how to operate the gun...the second assassin, Sarah Moore forgot to add bullets...so that's a 'nutjob', as opposed to others, who were plenty sane enough to put bullets in and plan the whole thing...

Clinton suffered through an airplane flying right up Pennsylvania Ave and crashing into the White House...also, a soldier from Colorado Springs blasted the whole front of the White House with an automatic weapon...I think the guy in the airplane died, but not certain...there's little info on the soldier's motives...much to his credit, Clinton never hid from Americans (as bush2 does) and he frequently jogged from the WH to McDonald's for food, shaking hands and signing autographs...loved by people everywhere...


there is an exhibit in the Smithsonian American History Museum about Presidential Assassinations...this web-link claims that since 1835, there have been 11 assassination attempts on the President, 4 have been successful....Lincoln, William McKinley, JFK, and James Garfield...I am certain that historians have looked at each carefully and have a variety of theories and writings, and some may be very different, depending on who's writing and what their political agendas are (such as traitor confederates)....

http://www.americanhistory.si.edu/presidency/pdf/7-9.pdf#xml=http://americanhistory.si.edu.master.com/texis/master/search/mysite.txt?q=presidential+assassinations&order=r&id=50283013301d6607&cmd=xml

Do you think secession is legal? What about if a state tries to do it completely non-violently? Should we keep a state in the union if it's obvious the state is not happy belonging? I realize this is a far-fetched question, as right now there's no specific state that wants out. But the question remains.

While I feel the civil war was a tragedy, I don't necessarily agree with the idea that the union needed to be kept as one. Did the concepts and points in the Declaration of Independence cease to apply once we formed our union? Did the Constitution forbid secession? It didn't guarentee the right to secession, but then, it didn't guarentee a lot of rights. I would argue that when the Constitution said any right not delegated to the federal government, and not forbidden to the states, belongs to the states, leaves the right to leave the union with the states.

Don't misconstrue this to make it seem like I think the South was 100% right and pure and whatnot. Their assumptions may have been ill-founded, completely made up, or just a general 'feeling'. But right or wrong in their assumptions, I guess I assume since they weren't forbidden the right to leave, that they were constitutionally granted it.

Supposedly a few supreme court justices at the time agreed too, and Lincoln threatened to jail them. I'm not sure how accurate that claim is, but if it's true, it's very telling.

- rawb

who think the "conspiracy theories" about JFK are a LOT more realistic than the coincidence or, in your case, nutjob theories.

I've got lots of bookmarks, but I'm sure others do too, and it's way past my bedtime.

CIA, GHWBush of the CIA in TX that day but is the only living American who doesn't know where he was or what he was doing when Kennedy was shot; etc. Qui bono? -- Who benefits?

Here's just one link, a fascinating book now online: Farewell America http://www.jfk-online.com/farewell00.html


Eloriel

the plot.....JFK and reagun....

BFEE will do anything...ANYTHING to steal the White House...

That was more than a bad landing was it not?

if I recall correctly, some nut took several shots at the Clinton WH through the fence and got tackled by tourists before the SS showed up. Whether it was a symbolic act or a serious assassination effort, or not - who knows?

Remember how much W hated Saddam because he tried to kill his father? I think that was a big reason why he was so anxious to invade Iraq.