Best Way to Convince Others?

Most of my family are lost causes. They watch Faux News and listen to Rush Limbaugh. There's no combatting willful stupidity.

However, there are two people who I think I might be able to talk with. I think the fundy Christian one is probably impossible to sway, but he listens. The other is my cousin Adrianna, who has rebelled against the stupidity of fundy religion in her own way. She's still under the influence of her reich-wing family, but I might be able to throw enough facts at her to at least make her think.

The problem is, I've become such a gung-ho anti-Shrubber that I may come across as deranged. Of course, I am deranged, but that's beside the point. ;)

For example, I've read enough evidence that I believe Shrub allowed 9-11 to happen in order to consolidate power. I'm not completely convinced, but yes, I do pretty much think that's what happened.

Throwing that at a Bushy would make them turn away and roll their eyes.

How can I chip away at the Bush image piece by piece? Where's a good starting place?

You see, I was a disgruntled Republican only a year ago. I was sick of my ultra right-wing family, but couldn't quite make the break. I even handed in a completely empty ballot once out of despair. Then (on my very own) I noticed that the media never said anything nasty about Shrubya and defended him viciously against any attacks.

That is not the way a free press behaves, friends.

Most of the people I know still think the media is liberal.

Ignorance can be combatted, but not willful stupidity. I think we have to find those who can be reached. Some people--like my brother, my mother, my uncle, etc.--just can't be reached.

To change my parents minds about the little shrub was to show them the video where He and pickles are both picking their noses at a ball game and showing pickles putting her finger in her mouth after.

Was she eating her boogers? Can't say for certain, but it sure looked like it. If there's anything they can't stand, it's people with bad manners.

to get through to them, you have to attack Bush on a superficial level that they can understand easily. Stating supported facts as to why he is a bad person, while very reasonable, does nothing to change their opinions. Though if he were to fart on camera, his career would be ruined.

Maybe that is why Bush looks so constipated all of the time.


PB

The way I've dealt with it in my own family is to first do what you did: admit to myself that I'm passionate and partisan. Then calmly proceed from there. I don't tell anyone what they should be thinking, but when talk turns to politics, I say things like, "It is a concern to me that Cheney's Halliburton made millions building up Saddam and now is making so many millions rebuilding Iraq, with no competition. Just like that, gets handed the contracts and no one else is allowed to bid. What's up with that? These guys make money building up these dictators, then they make money taking 'em out, coming and going. It appears to me that our foreign policy decisions are based on how much money there is to be made for certain privileged individuals, rather than what's best for America." People respond better to a gentle approach, and what's more, chances are you have educated them, all at the same time. If the person quickly gets defensive when you've started out gently, then let it pass until another time. Or if they express something that is a bit off kilter from what you know to be true, sympathize with them: "Yeah, that is something that used to bother me, too, but then I learned...." and educate them a bit more. I'm convinced that if Americans could become better educated about what is really going on, we could take our country back. No one with a core of human decency would want this charade to continue. But people shut down if you attack them or insult them, that's for sure.

Unfortunately, I'm one of the walking wounded, so at this stage I tend to lash out. You see, I voted for Bush. I didn't like him when I voted for him (didn't like Gore either), but then he betrayed the country and betrayed me. I cannot forgive lies of that magnitude. I am deeply hurt and incensed, even on a personal level. Of course, I (like everyone) has personal shit to deal with, to. Mine has piled up of late. I'm not in a very reasonable mood. :(

Most of my family will not listen to me simply because I'm an atheist. All fundies know that atheists are deceived and not worth listening to. They're wrong about everything.

I lost a lot of respect for my friend and voice teacher when he said he was for the war in Iraq. He's also a fundy Christian, though one of the few I've met who actually listen...though I sometimes wonder if he does it to humor me, then says to himself, "Gee, aren't those atheists misguided?"

My cousin might listen, but she has a short attention span and is much more interested in things I consider superficial. Still, if I can convince her to vote the Dem party line, it would be another vote.

Other than that, I'm not sure how I can affect things on a personal level.

I'll peruse your ideas and carefully consider how to approach this.

If you need some links, PM me.

...that actually got the Cons to listen goes back to the months leading to Iraq. I DONT call Bush a liar or a criminal (which he is). I DONT say I was against the war (which I am).

I DO say that I am very weary of the fact that Bush did not follow proper procedure in the months leading to war. (Fundies and other fanatics LOVE structure!) I talk about the UN Security Council, and our ignoring of their reasonable request to let the inspections continue for another 6-8 months before the final vote is decided. In that extra time, we would have either gotten stronger world support, or perhaps avoided the need for war altogether (which is what all great nations first try to do) - but most importantly, we would have continued support from the world, which is what we need in the long run to combat global terrorism.

"Screw the UN. Screw France. blahblahblah..." they may respond.

But we went to the Security Council first. Why? Even Bush must've seen the value of getting their approval. This is the process that we helped create, so we have to respect it. And if it's not working, we have to change it (remove veto power?). But most of all, we must be consistent, because the rest of the world follows our example.

But Bush disrespected the process... why? I don't know. I do know that another 6-8 months would not have been a threat to US security - in fact, it may have helped assure our security.

Note buzzwords: Respect. Process. Security. Consistency. Now you're speaking their language.

one becomes especially convincing when one punctuates one's remarks by shaking a pitchfork menacingly over one's head. or so one has heard.

Tell them that in 1994 Limbaugh proclaimed that "there is no conclusive proof that nicotine's addictive... And the same thing with cigarettes causing emphysema, lung cancer, heart disease."

If they still think Limbaugh is credible after that, then they truly are hopeless.

Even if I told them this about Rush Limbaugh (they listen to him so much, they already know), they would say he was wrong about this one tiny little thing. They're all into the "poor, repressed white men" nonsense.

My family could make a career out of denying reality. In fact, I think that's just what they've done. Once or twice my mother admitted my father abused me. But now she'll deny it.

Hopeless: brother, mother, uncle, male cousins, father (he's dead, but he was hopeless before then)

Hopeful: over-sexed female cousin :)