If Securing Iraq Meant "The Draft" Coming Back...Would You Support It?

Obviously, we don't have enough troops right now and there's a probability that if we're going to do this right, and actually secure this nation, we need at least twice the number of troops we have there right now.

And with our troops spread so thin in other parts of the world, the numbers just aren't there.

So if re-instating the draft were the only means to secure Iraq and possibly prevent us from being in that country for the next 50 years, would you support it?

Particualrly if they removed all defermetns and loop holes. Nobody, and noone get out. Everyone serves.

I actually subscribe to the "Starship Trooper" philosophy of citizenship.

Funny that. :)

n/t

of every politician who sided with shrub and also the sons and daughters of every single executive of every single company which stands to profit from the war.

only if the sons and daughters of the politicians who voted for this obscene war are the first to be called up, and the first in line would be bush*'s twins!

The soldiers who are there now are the ones who enlisted of their own volition and understood that their duties might involve wartime. Yes, they've been shafted and their morale is horrible. But that's my point. How do you think a few hundred thousand people who had no ambition about going over there, but were suddenly forced to, would feel?

My belief is that the more presence we have over there, the worse things will get. It isn't just Iraq that wants us out of there and there are probably MILLIONS of muslims in neighboring countries who would come to the Iraqis' aid to try and thwart us. We need to be out of there in our present modus operandi... that's all there is to it.

and endless wars because of the endless troops being perpetrated by the Politicians who love war.

We ended it....it wasn't easy......but........maybe it's time to bring it back. So many have forgotton what it was all about and the lives it ruined for those who served and those who didn't.

Bring it back. Let someone else go through it all and fight to end it.......We have such short memories...but this memory of Viet Nam lives and trashes politicians but the general public doesn't seem to remember why we had to end the draft to stop the flow of blood....to stop the endless drain on our youth. To stop "THEM!"

let the armchair commandos and computer shooters see what it's all about.

"regardless of Iraq"?

forget I even said anything. :eyes:

why the eye roll? the original thread stated.. "if securing irag meant..." and i said i'd be for the draft regardless of iraq.

i didn't go to vietnam but i changed the bandages of the wounded and the maimed at great lakes and bethesda naval hospitals as a navy corpsman. the wards were packed. but that's nothing compared to the horrors of combat. i had it easy.

when i served with the marines after the draft ended i had guys coming into sick call who signed in with an 'x' because they were illiterate. i'd love to see the jonah goldbergs and the tucker carlsons sweating and bleeding instead of the poor and illiterate.
i agree with your posts prog, i just didn't understand what you meant.

We need to get the rest of the world involved, something our Commander-in-Chimp refuses to do.

We don't belong there and we never belonged there. We should get the hell out and assist reconstruction through United Nations and Iraqi jointly administered channels. Period.

FFFNNN WAY! :D We need to ask for assistance from other countries via the UN. Though, Bush will not do this...

Thank you! :)

This might be a good time to really focus on the whole picture....

We are there ONLY to try and control Iraq's vast oil reserves.

We are doing virtually NOTHING to restore the country's infrastructure

Our troops are utterly neglected as it is. Just HOW will doubling, tripling, or 15-upling the present force help their quality of life?

On top of everything else, we have all but guaranteed the eventual extinction of not just the people of Iraq but those for hundreds of miles from the borders by carpeting the ground in that area with depleted uranium munitions dust. Do you have any idea how many mutations and horrible defects are going to proliferate throughout that region of the world because of our f**king barbarism?

Don't get me wrong; I'm not mad at anyone in particular in this thread. But, I am so damn upset about this whole thing that thinking about it for too long literally makes me ill. To me, it's a more horrible thing even than what our ancestors did to the Native Americans over the course of 300 years. And that was disgusting by any standard.

End of rant...........

The draft in some form may be necessary for national security at some time, but the way it's spoken of now isn't for security, it's to maintain our forces around the world and fight wars similar to Iraq.

If 'securing' Iraq is truly a neccesary thing for our nation then people should willingly sign up for. I won't speak for anyone else, but if someone tries to force me to be a killer for them, they'll find out quick enough who I'd be willing to kill.

I would support the draft for other reasons, like watching white, chickenshit, chickenhawk little boys make up bullshit excuses as to why they could not serve.

After THEY are KIA, we'll talk.
Yeah, give Noelle an M16 :nuke:

Keep a contigent of force there to protect contractors rebuilding the vital infrastructure and pull out afterwards (I'm not a skilled nation builder), but thats only if they needed the draft to do it...

And I would absolutely NOT vote for anyone, I don't care what party they belonged to, or what idealogy they believed in, that made even the slightest effort to reinstate the draft.

For the draft will be like it was in the past-- those who want war will avoid it-- those who don't know the reality of war will be sucked in and spat out--

This Iraqmire does not defend our country. It actually puts our country and citizens in harm's way. To fight against a draft would actually be defending our citizenry. If you don't understand the logic of that--then you need to think about what is going on in Iraq right now.

It's totally untrue that we can't leave Iraq. If we seriously wanted to get out, we could hand off to the United Nations. But we're not going to do that.

I certainly don't support bringing back the draft to maintain domination over a nation we should not have invaded. Let's get out.

but of course that can't happen with the neo-cons at the helm...

peace

All the military is for is to indoctrinate dumb youth to be followers of Chickenhawk killers. I don't support the right wing military anymore---let them rot in Iraq they deserve it!

especially our troops.

the neo-cons at the helm deserve to be dropped off in the iraqi desert and FORGOTTON.

:hi:

peace

Military and otherwise. For EVERY able-bodied citizen.

We will be destroyed if we let immigrants, underclass, and mercenaries fight our battles.

That was what undermined the military of the Egyptian New Kingdom and lead to its rather resounding crash and defeat at the hands of the Assyrians then the Persians.

German immigrant boys fought and died in the Revolutionary War so we could have a country. And, I don't think they were particularly wealthy, as well. Let's don't forget the brave Japanese who fought in Europe in World War II, many of whose families were interned in our concentration camps.

It's not a good thing to disrespect broad categories of people. I think even mercenaries may have a good purpose in some instances.

Politically, it's a tempting thought. Nothing would put a damper on these world domination schemes faster than forcing the whole country to have a real personal stake in it and there is something to be said for the theory that a career military is not the best insurance for freedom in a country. All that said, forcing the young of a country to go to war or just to give up all their personal freedom and choice for a period of years just seems so antithetical to a free society. And as horrible as it was when I was young, it seems far more horrific when the potential draftees are a generation younger.

The idea that the Iraqi people can't form their own government is arrogant. They want us to leave, so we should leave. All we're "securing" is a chance to get profits from the new leader anyway. We replaced the Taliban with a leader formally connected to the oil business, and we probably plan on doing similar things with Iraq. We want that oil. That's what we're trying to "secure".

No draft, bring our men and women home now!

Fine.

Put a million soldiers in Iraq. We don'tknow or understand their culture or religion.

We will be repressing them using western cultural ideas of what they should and shouldn't do.

It ain't gonna work. We had zillions of soldiers and zillions of bombs and decades to conquer and occupy Vietnam. It didn't work. They don't like us. We are fucking infidels.

Just because Iraq is not trees and swamps doesn't mean it's not another Vietnam.


Get used to it. We screwed the pooch. We fucked up big time by invading Iraq to steal their oil.

They don't want us there. 25 attacks per day on average on US soldiers.

We lost before we went in. We will not win a guerilla war in a muslim country.

Wanna talk to some people who tried it before:

Try Channeling:
Genghis Khan
Alexander the Great
King Richard the Lion Heart
Napleon Bonaparte
The British of late

More troops equals more targets. We need to get out. (and don't start with the "oh we need to HELP them". We already helped to kill thousands of them in two wars and 12 years of sanctions. They don't WANT our fucking help.

They want us to leave their goddamned country!!!

If this happens U.S. American cities will be burning next summer.

During the Viet Nam War draftee's parents and grandparents knew the Second World War, and the draft made some kind of sense. But today's kids have parents and grandparents who knew Viet Nam...

Enough said. I don't want to be anywhere near the place when that shit hits the fan.

A draft to shore up a neo-colonial land/power/oil/money grab is totally unacceptable. I can imagine drafting people when it is neccesary-i.e. to defend our shores, but not to make a bunch of chickenhawks richer.

and the rich kids will get the cushy assignments and the poor kid will do the fighting,I remember during the Korean conflict all of the rich kids had PI marked in their personal files PI=political influence.

It's time the cut the military-industrial-complex by 95%. A large military is just an easy target.

We need to then create a non-violent, Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps.

Change the name of the Department of Defense to the Department of Nonviolence.

Outlaw the death penalty in the name of National Security.

Pull all our troops out of all International posts.

Fire everyone that works in the CIA and put all future spy operations under the U.S. Army

Create a welfare program for the poor in the United States and give more welfare to the peoples of the world for PR reasons.

No tax for the people only tax Republican owned corporations.

Give Texas to Mexico and give all Republicans in Texas $10,000 to become Mexican citizens.

No wars or police actions overseas.

Change the energy industry to solar.

Dismantle all ABC weapons (atomic, biological, and chemical weapons here and overseas.

Shut down all Nuke plants ASAP.

Ban hunting and the ownership of guns.

Forgive all our citizens debts, and forgive debts of those that owe us money.

Increase Airline and transportation security.

I almost hope that those bastards are stupid enough to reinstate it, though. When every young man and woman realizes that they, too, can be called upon to sacrifice their lives on the oil-stained altar of war in the Mideast, it will finally force them, and the masses to once again PAY ATTENTION to their political leaders, government and the media, and ASK QUESTIONS. All of this flag-waving, blind patriotic shit will dry up real quick. The American Left will almost instantly be reengergized and radicalized in a way not seen since the late 1960s. The Neocons will soon afterwards find themselves thrown out of power and marginalized.

Bring it on, Rove.

The fact that so called democrats can even THINK about using the draft (i.e. getting even more innocents killed) for a personal POLITICAL GOAL at the expense of others lives makes me sick. I would vote for Bush over such a person. At least he trys to cover it up and make you feel good about it. Even the freaks at free republic have more deceny.

Frankly I don't understand why such people don't write in Nixon on every ballot they ever cast. "and actually secure this nation, we need at least twice the number of troops we have there right now." Hmmmm... That argument seems familiar. I wonder where I've seen it before.

shit or get off the pot.

Either pull them all out or send more in because what we're doing right now ain't working.

I don't want a draft, but I think having Bush set one up would be a great step toward getting America to WAKE THE FUCK UP.

Because even though I don't know anyone serving, I still care. Unlike a hell of a lot of other so-called Americans.

Except for I think that if Bush was using the war for political promotion (which I don't), whoever told him to do it would have to be the most incompitent political advisor ever. Bush's approval ratings have dropped a good 20+ points since the 2002 elections, mostly due to the war.

I also support the immediate withdrawal of US troops, bureaucrats, and business interests out of Iraq!

This was Bush and his PNAC overlords' idea to begin with, there's never been any viable connection between iraq and Al Qaeda established, the whole yellowcake reasoning was exposed as a lie (anybody remember that?), we've helped destroy a nation's infrastructure and now they have car bombings to deal with, meanwhile Bush hits the links and possibly the sauce, Rummy's eyes bug out and lips curl back revealing nasty rotten teeth as he gleefully says things are going according to plan and are working our way, Powell and the entire State Dept. are probably holed up with Cheney in his multi-million dollar bunker playing poker or something, troops get slammed for complaining about conditions they were not trained for, National Guard contingents are all being deployed over there, leaving nothing here in case of natural disasters here, and now there's talk of a draft? If this was WW2, I'd probably agree, but this was a war of agression, and I'd rather see the Bush regime collapse than see a reinstatement of the draft under these circumstances. They listened to NOBODY opposing their "wisdom" getting into this quagmire, and I just say it's time to pay the Piper. We need help here at home, and relying on private corporations to sort out where we need help while they think of profits first just ain't gonna cut it...

If you voted republican, you voted for the war, you're first in line to go fight it.

GO TEAM!

All those young-republican frat-boy pricks would have to put their money where their stinking mouths are.

That is a very bad idea.

You need troops?

Forget a draft.

Go to several "Support the Troops" "pro-War" rally, and go to several College Republicans meetings, grab every male you see between the ages of 18 and 25, and ship them off to boot camp.

NO! The ONLY reason I would support the draft is if we were in a WWII tytpe crisis where the very survival of our nation was at stake. The idea of using a draft to reinforce the empire's holdings it totally stupid. Maybe we should do what the Roman Empire did and raise levies of auxilaries in the nations we kick over to serve as defenders for those nations, then we wouldn't be so horribly stretched thin. Then again, that would probably be difficult to implement ANYWAY.

Ouch! What a disaster. ;-)

I'm in favour of letting the children of the ones who profit from this war fight it. Let them bleed for their own profits, not the working class! The working class has bled enough!

...people getting crap payments for being cannon fodder is bad enough, but now you want to force people to beomce cannon fodder? No fucking chance.

We need to get out of Iraq and beg the UN to come in and restore order with our monetary help. The sooner the better!

The problem is the unilateral approach of bush crime family. They need to suck it up and ask for help, but it will be a cold day in hell before they do. It's just not in the nature of these beasts.

Because my leader, Don Rummy the First, said that draftees are nothing but fodder. Would Don Rummy the First lie?

If I didn't support this misadventure to begin with I sure as hell don't support a draft to pull the neocon's chestnuts from the fire.

The trouble is the jnin is out of the bottle, and there is no way of replacing it, the world has changed forever, chimp* and co. have altered the course of history and we and all of our desendents will be paying for this for years.

Sometime in the future we will be asked why? Why in the hell didn't you people do more to stop these madmen in 2000? and I haven't got an answer for that question.

Here's my take on that question: I don't think the draft should be reinstituted in order to secure Iraq. Iraq is a mess, probably the worst decision this country has ever made, and we'll be living with the ramifications of it for a long long time. We shouldn't be sending more people over there to clean up the horrible mess created by this administration.

But it was done and now we're there and it has to be dealt with. I think Wesley Clark has the right idea about how to handle it from this point. Get the Iraqis more involved and get the UN involved. That means the US giving up control of the area. The UN would control the oil money and the rebuilding would be done by all kinds of different countries. The US needs to get its hands out of the area all together in my opinion.

As for the draft on its own. I think if there had been a draft in place we would never have gotten into this mess to begin with. If the people in congress and the people in this administration and the family member of the Bush corporate shills had family members that would have had to serve and have their lives put on the line, no way in hell would this ever have happened.

There should be no exemptions. If anyone feels that they are unable or unwilling to serve in the military they should perform some other type of service. Both Male and Female. No rich kids getting out ala Bush etc. No future Chickenhawks!

Having served in the Army reserves I can tell you that, in my experience, almost everybody in the enlisted ranks is either poor white or minority folks. Nobody with money.

It's just not fair the way it's working now.

The defense budget needs to be cut dramatically as well, there's no reason for all of the corporate defense wellfare at the expense of important social programs like universal healthcare and education. At the same time the benefits and pay for the soldiers, sailors and marines should be increased.

If the hell of Iraq had been placed on the shoulders of the people who invented this -- on the Wolfowitz and Perl and Cheney and Rumsfeld and Bush families you know that we would not even be talking about this today.

They are cowards and war profiteers and should be thrown in jail for the rest of their lives.

got young people to the polls, I'd be all for it. There's also the matter of racial and economic equity that makes a whole lot of sense too.