The DLC vs. the Progressive Caucus

DLC: http://www.ndol.org/
Progressive Caucus: http://bernie.house.gov/pc/

Which organization of elected Democrats do you feel represents your views the best? Does the fact that some candidates (like Kerry and Dean) either are or were members of the DLC, or that other candidates (like Kucinich) are members of the Progressive Caucus, matter to you?

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Ceteris paribus, the progressive causus (Nadler, Kucinich, etc) is usually better on the issues.

But how cool is it that Pelosi is a member of the Prog. caucus and is now House Minority Leader? She rocks, man...

Has anyone from the Progressive Caucus ever been in a leadership position before?

The DLC has many attacks on Dean right on their site, and clearly feel he does not represent their ideals. While Dean and Kerry may once have supported or have been a member of the DLC, it is the right and privelege of any American to make an informed decision to change one's mind over time. I respect the fact that Kucinich has changed his view on the right to choose and do not challenge him on this issue though he has clearly been opposed to this right in the not-to-distant past. It surprises me that many supporters of Kucinich will ignore this flip-flop of his but draw undue attention to the past positions of other candidates who clearly are moving away from those positions. If you wish to attack the positions of Dean and Kerry and other candidates you should attack their position as it stands now.

I would vote for Kucinich if he gets the nomination withouth a doubt, based upon his standings on the issues (and yes i have actually looked) but if I were to follow your guidelines I would NEVER vote for Kucinich because I feel that the right to choose is a fundamental one that MUST be protected lest our country fall into a theocratic society dominated by principles defined by the few and ignoring the rights of the individual, and since Kucinich was once opposed to the right to choose then I could not in good consciense vote for him.

But there are still plenty of DLC-ers on Dean's side, including Bayh's wife and the DLC-for-Dean clubs everywhere. Dean's economic program is pretty much 100% DLC.

On economics the difference between the Progressive Caucus and the DLC becomes clear. The Progressive Caucus holds to traditional FDR-style economic policies, while the DLC has picked up Reagan/Republican ideology, supposedly a more "electable" position.

And it had nothing to do with those corporate campaign contributions, so stop saying that!

The DLC is a think tank made up of individuals, who work with certain democrats on policy proposals and legislation, and on campaign strategy.

So whether official DLC strategists, or elected officials who belong to the DLC, they all think for themselves

I really don't know why people here don't understand that. The DLC doesn't prefur anyone. think tanks can't prefur. Preference is an act that an individual does, and the DLC does not

Dean is DLC, and I assume he prefurs himself

Like... Fromm? Or the Chair Bayh? Don't know that they prefer Kerry - but they do seem to like to bash Dean and or Deanlike positions.

I haven't heard anything positive from them about Kerry.
Dean, well we all know that story.

which is why I support Dean - he can win swing voters and moderate republicans, as well as the base.
I like what Kucinich and Bernie say, I just don't think they can be elected nationwide at this time.
The goal in 2004 is to send dumbya back to Crawford for an extended vacation.

The DLC is too conservative on economics and the progressives are too liberal on social issues.

and DLC is not a party, is not GOP, is not Satan or over-powerful. Enough already! It's wistle-ass we should be uniting against!

just like the Progressive Caucus is the left-wing. Believe it or not, while getting whistle-ass out of office is the number 1 priority, we also have to get back Congress and the courts - and if elect a bunch of right-wing DLCers, will that be much better than a GOP-controlled government?

And Dean has never been a member of Congress.

Secondly, at least on paper, I am not totally anti-DLC:

"In keeping with our party's grand tradition, we reaffirm Jefferson's belief in individual liberty and capacity for self-government. We endorse Jackson's credo of equal opportunity for all, special privileges for none. We embrace Roosevelt's thirst for innovation and Kennedy's summons to civic duty. And we intend to carry on Clinton's insistence upon new means to achieve progressive ideals."

From the last sentence, they could be considered pragmatic progressives, although I worry that their pragmatism is stronger than their progressiveness. As far as the "new" Democrat goes, it raises the decade old question "why did Coke change their formula". I cannot fault Dean for trying the "new Coke", but at least in rhetoric he is leading the groundswell to bring back the "classic Democrat" - it is the real thing.

BTW - I did not see a single Senator in PC, was Wellstone a member?

the classic democrat, when he is fiscally conservative?

historical moorings and have no meaning.

"Most importantly, I have wanted my party to stand up for what we believe in again."

Right On!!!

"Companies are leaving the country to avoid paying taxes, or to avoid paying people livable wages. And corporations are doing this with the support of the government and a political process in Washington that they rent -- if not own."

Classic - livable wages, taxation of corporations, against corporate lobby

"The tax cuts that are the radicals' weapon are not about tax cuts for working people. They are not even about tax cuts for millionaires. Instead, the tax cuts are designed to destroy Social Security, Medicare, our public schools and our public services through starvation and privatization."

Classic - SS, Medicare, public schools and public services

"An America where it is not enough to proclaim the words freedom, self-government, and democracy, but where it is a duty and a responsibility to participate together in common purpose with the sacrifice required of each of us to give those words meaning."

Classic - ask rahther what you can do for your country

"You have the power to restore our nation to fiscal sanity and bring jobs back to our people.

You have the power to fulfill Harry Truman's dream and bring health insurance to every American.

You have the power to give us a foreign policy consistent with American values again.

You have the power to take back the Democratic Party."

Classic - pro jobs, Harry Truman, health insurance. TAKE BACK THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY - get rid of the new Coke!!!!

There you go, chapter and verse. Rhetoric does matter, it re-frames the debate in the public consciousness. If he talks that way, and the people support him, that gives a mandate to his rhetoric.

John Kerry has a lifetime ADA rating of like 99% !!!!!!!!, higher than the senior senator from Massachussetts, Ted Kennedy yet he beongs to the DLC which is a group of moderate Dems.

www.adaction.org


I don't get it...

while his DLC-ness comes from his recent shift to the right, no doubt at the behest of the same geniuses who brokered the 2002 losses.

is full of little-known but terrific Congresspersons who keep getting re-elected, and not always from Berkeley, either! The list contains names from some unexpected places, such as North Carolina (Mel Watt), New Mexico (Tom Udall), Mississippi (Bennie Thompson), Arizona (Ed Pastor and Raul Grijalva), Missouri (William "Lacy" Clay), Indiana (Julia Carson), and Texas (Sheila Jackson-Lee).

Kucinich and Kaptur are from working-class areas in Ohio. DeFazio is from Eugene (aka "Blue Jean"), the very liberal home of the University of Oregon, but the surrounding area is quite conservative/libertarian, and people who vote knuckle-dragging Republican for everything else vote for the nearly-socialist DeFazio. Wellstone also drew votes from typically Republican constituencies, such as farmers and the VFW.

DeFazio is the one I've had the most personal contact with. (Actually, he and Kucinich are the only ones I've met in person.) He's not much to look at, but he radiates approachability and friendliness.

The stremgth of the Progressive Caucus is their economic populism. It is also their weakness, in that it makes large corporate donors disinclined to fund them.

My opinion of the DLC is that it's the new home of the Rockefeller Republicans.

My opinion of the DLC is that it's the new home of the Rockefeller Republicans.

Good to have you back around, Lydia. :)

doesn't court corporate donors nor do we really want them to. I'm proud of the fact that Kucinich is completely funded by those individuals that support his campaign.