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Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 11:50 AM
Original message
Write a Story, Go to Jail
From Wired News: http://www.wired.com/news/conflict/0,2100,60144,00.html

<snip>
Brian Robertson was just months away from graduation at Moore High School in Moore, Oklahoma, last year when he found the beginnings of what he thought was a short story on a school computer. He copied the file to another computer, added some paragraphs to the initial text and then promptly got arrested.
<snip>

I think this is another case where the politicians seeking to capitalize on a crisis went to far. Thoughts?


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Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. Read this post damn you!
kick :D
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. Safest solution: non-fiction writing only

This has happened to other kids, too, even in elementary school.

Just tell school officials that when there is a creative writing assignment, your child is to be given a non-fiction writing assignment of comparable difficulty.

Unfortunately, there have also been problems with childrens' art, so the best bet is to arrange for your child to have an extra study period during the art class.

It is tragic, as children need art and creative writing classes, but in the current climate, keeping them out of jail has to come first.
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CBGLuthier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. No thanks
I don't want to live in a world of safest solutions.

I am hoping this case is used to get rid of this odious law. Especially since I live in Oklahoma.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. As an adult, you can choose to go to jail for your beliefs

But I am talking about kids, who deserve the chance to reach adulthood before they make informed consensual choices regarding sexual activity, legal contracts, or going to jail to protest a law or policy.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Nobody should go to jail for a story
There's lots of murder stories, just like the article said. Should Stephen King go to jail for a story? Tom Clancy?

Why so quick to sell out children's basic civil rights?

I remember a picture my son drew in first grade. The assignment was for the kids to draw their biggest wish. My son drew little figures and vehicles shooting at each other, a frightening war scene. A little unnerving at first glance. Until we asked him what his wish was... The whole Star Wars Collection. Ooooh.

Adults are supposed to have common sense and discernment. I don't know where the hell it went, but it's obvious it's missing. In more ways than one.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Which of the child's rights should be protected first?

I agree that the child has a right to draw, write or sing anything she wants.

But the state does not agree, so the choice is between protecting the child's freedom of expression or protecting the child's right to reach adulthood outside of prison.

It is not an ideal solution, but the situation is far from ideal.

I am saying that I believe that the harm that will come to the child from being seized and imprisoned is greater than the harm that will come to the child from doing her creative work in the privacy of her home.

Let her become an adult, and she can decide for herself which freedoms she will risk jail for.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. That makes no sense
Nobody should have to risk jail just for words written on a page, adult or child. What the hell kind of country are you promoting here? I don't even understand the logic. And this kid was 18. Adult charges. Life ruined.

As to kids, are adults too stupid to read something and take caring actions regarding young people? They have to arrest kids based on nothing more than words on a page? What possible public good can come of this?

I don't understand it. I just don't know why people give up freedom so easily.
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Hanuman Donating Member (340 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I second that...
This whole concept is completely outrageous and incomprehensible.
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Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. agreed
That's why I posted this. It's disturbing.
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kimchi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. I liked this line:
Sara McFall, Robertson's attorney, calls Robertson's writing "disturbing," but argued in court, "If a story describing such things is evidence (of a plan to commit murder), then Stephen King would be serving a life sentence."

Too true.

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roughsatori Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. He sounds like the next Kathy Acker:
Appropriating text and inserting "real" people into the fantasy. Well, I was friendly with the writer Kathy Acker and it reminded me of something she would have given her students an A for. I just wanted to kick this. I am curious what others will say.
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. Read the actual 'story'
It was not a traditional narrative, it was written like some sort of planning document.

When I was in the Air Force many years ago, I knew a guy, sort of a D&D type, who penned a similar 'story' about seizing control of one of our ARMED F-4e's and basically stealing it for use in some sort of terror campaign. Same type of 'story.'

He was Gone in 60 seconds, mental eval, and dishonorable discharge.

In today's climate, a school is NOT the place to be writing stuff like this...
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. It is a legitimate literary device, but you are right, school is no longer

a place where the creative arts can be practiced, at least not in the United States, and I would say the same holds for any nation where the bush regime has assumed control of the curriculum.
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Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Agree that it isn't a good thing but
should you be tossed in jail when there is no evidence you actually planned on doing it. Writing is an escape for many a troubled teen.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. he shouldn't be thrown in jail, but shouldn't wont get him out

It is fine to protest it, but the reality is that any child today who draws a picture or writes a story or poem that displeases the authorities may be seized and imprisoned.

Until such time as that changes, it is safer to have the child practice the arts at home.



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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I see.
So If they want to write using their own creativity, then by your logic a creative writing class is the last place they should do it. Wonderful.

I liked this quote from the article...

"It's not a fair method, but it's the only method we have of testing a law.... Legislators are very hesitant to assess damages on their own work. Without public outcry, a law would never be repealed and reintroduced with new language, absent this kind of public concern," McFall said."

Hmm. Maybe if the legislators debated on how their laws could be misused by prosecutors....

Nah. I'm dreaming again.
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. If that 'story' was found laying on the seat of a city bus
Most people reading it would NOT immediately assume if was a work of fiction for a creative writing class.

I AM a writer, I've been paid for my work, I've written since I was in 7th grade. This is about context. It is NOT a traditional narrative style, it reads like something out of a terror handbook.

I do not think this kid should do jail time, but, unfortunately, in the climate of Dubya World, this kind of thing is going to get attention.

The Steven King analogy does NOT hold up. While I am NOT a fan of his, I don't think he's ever published anything that would be mistaken for some sort of planning document.
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. The original paragraph is part of an Adobe Pagemaker template guide
If anything, the kid should be charged with unlawful use of copyrighted material. Then the DA can prosecute the Adobe Pagemaker documentation group for their careless fearmongering to test out his shiney new law.

"After a bit of sleuthing, she discovered that the paragraph comes on a CD-ROM that comes with a textbook for learning Adobe PageMaker. The paragraph is the sample text used in a template for creating ads in PageMaker. The text describes evacuation plans for taking shelter in case of a hurricane."



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SPAZtazticman Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. grrrrrrrrrrrr
this type of stuff makes me angry. every human being has the inalienable right to think or say anything he or she wants. the government(including the school system) has no right to take that right away from anyone.
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Think, yes... Say, NO!!!
The 'yell fire in a crowded theatre' analogy can be used here. I can think of a hundred situations where logic trumps free speech...
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Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. The yell fire analogy does not fit this situation
Yelling fire in a theater is prohibited because people can get immediately hurt in the mad dash to the door. In this case no one gets hurts by the discovery they simply get worried and maybe afraid. Big difference.

Schools should be looking for this as a sign of a troubled teen that needs to seek counseling and get help. Perhaps laws should force mental evaluations for these kids if such material is found. No harm no foul just making sure everyones ok.

Throwing someone in jail for this however is wrong. It is an injustice and should not be tolerated.
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I was using the 'yell fire' re: the post above
that claimed persons can think or say ANYTHING they want. That is simply not true.

I agree that this kid should NOT be jailed, and I agree with your comments about looking for signs of troubled teens.

Simply writing this off as 'creative writing' is ignoring the problem. Creative writing sould teach proper use of the language, and that 'story' is full of really bad grammar, etc.

This has been a good discussion... I wish there were more of them here on DU on a daily basis!!! :hi:
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
18. The death of quality literature
A lot of good action literature contains sinister plots. I wonder if any of the Hardy Boys books , if written on a school computer today, could subject the writer to felony charges?
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neuvocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
20. Intervention, not prison.
I'm convinced that this kid was prone to carrying out something bad, but didn't carry anything out.
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Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I agree
What ever happened to giving a damn?
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
22. I think these types of cases are getting to "witch hunt" proportions.
Rat your friends out, save your school. They play on the hysteria generated post-Columbine of parents and students. While I think this particular boy may need psychiatric counseling, for his own health, I don't think a 10 year prison sentence is theraputic. And I only base that on his mother's statements.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. LOL well we see that creative works are always subjective

I think he needs an editor and an agent.
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Noordam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
25. After reading it, I would not want my kids in school with him
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Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Yes I agree
But should he go to jail? I say no.
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