Ut seems that the really bad Priest John Geoghan was murdered in prison.

http://news.yahoo.com/?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030824/ap_on_re_us/church_abuse_geoghan_killed&cid=519&ncid=716

"The attack took place shortly after lunchtime at Souza-Baranowski Correction Center, about 30 miles northwest of Boston, Department of Correction spokeswoman Kelly Nantel said. Geoghan was being held in protective custody to shield him from the general prison population, but he had some contact with other inmates in protective custody."

Huh? Protective custody includes interaction with homicidal lunatics? Whatever:eyes:

Does this look fishy to you or do we just run for-shit prisons?



PS~ Not defending the abusive actions by the deceased!

Those that abuse children are known to not last long in prison. Even with this knowledge and being told to keep him in protective custody they fail.

Can't say I'm heartbroken by this, but I am saddened that our prisons are in such a poor state.

It matters not what his crimes were, whet matters is the humane treatment that we give after the judgement. We are not served well by this sort of "Justice".

IMO it degrades us all.

at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=80219&mesg_id=80219

It's the child abusers/rapists/molestors. We may tend to think of prison inmates as indiscriminant monsters, but even to the criminal harm or abuse of a child is repellent.

So dropping an elderly child molestor into a prison and calling it protective custody isn't enough. These people need to either be in mental institutions or in some sort of isolation.

that house only molesters and rapists.

is anyone really surprised by this ?

Bills to pay, deadlines to meet, that's what I choose to worry about right now, not the killing of a child molester (which he brought on himself).

The death penalty in this country is not as horrible as the fate this person met. I'm not saying his death is something we should all cry over but the type of thinking expressed in your post is why our prison systems have become more horrible and cruel.

People simply don't care. That is not right.

We are not barbarians where when the judicial system fails our personal expectations are finally met with a rope around the neck. I refuse to lower myself to those depths even with a fucking child molestor.

As to your objections with more pressing problems, I can only say that I'm able to multi-task:-)

child molestors are target number one in prision. It is because a LOT of those serving time were molested as kids. Do you think if they had no been molested their lives may have been different?

I don't feel bad for this guy. Molesting CHILDREN is one of the worst crimes you can commit. We are always talking about doing this or doing that for the children. How about we lock up the people who are molesting them forever?

I think it's the least we could do.

If people want the death penalty for child-molesters then they need to change the laws.

It is not the job of prisoners to punish any other prisoner. It is the job of our criminal justice system. And when we as citizens give tacit approval for "criminals" to punish other "criminals" we are abandoning the Constitution. I use quotation marks because of the number of people being proved innocent from DNA.

These treads about this ex-priest make DU read like a sister site to Freakrepublic.

Hell I even added the "PS" for gawd's sake!

That is why I posted in reply to another poster seeming to approve of the idea of one prisoner carrying out the death penalty on another. Some people seem not to be able to grasp that it is not the ex-priest, but our justice system I am concerned about.

I know of someone who was convicted and sentenced to 3 years in prison. He had no criminal history, and was later found to be falsely convicted and released (not on a technicality but because it became clear he did not commit the crime). He was repeatedly raped in prison and re-entered society HIV positive. I guess he deserved it according to some of these pro-prison-vigilante posts.

Prison is a bad place. Bad things happen to bad people.

Let someone molest your kid and you decide if they deserve death.

Someone molested me and I don't think he deserved the death penalty. After all the years and all the pain I have managed to forgive him and feel sorry for the little boy he was who was also molested (most likely, given his behavior).

eom

:eyes:

I like that guy. :D

At least the little which I've seen of him. He gave an intelligent, immpassioned, succinct, understandable defence of the Progressive Income Tax on MTP about a month ago, I loved it.

It's the/his supporters here that need some polishing...

You're disgusted by his position, fine. He isn't representative of Clark or all of his supporters. Most people wouldn't even know that he was a Clark supporter if you didn't point it out.

I'm sure all of us could go around following around supporters of other candidates and yelling "Go X!" everytime they made a silly comment.

Sigh. Anyway, regarding polishing...if you check the recent threads, you will note that Clark supporters have initiated very little candidate bashing since, I dunno, Monday, when we quieted down the worst of them.

Anyway, peace, OK?

From Howard Stern: "Lord I was born a NAMBLING man..."

a murderer who likes killing and found a "socially acceptable" way to do so. A chance to kill and be looked upon as a hero by some -- and all with very little danger to himself (a 37 year old killing a 68 year old is in no danger).

Geoghan was a monster. And so is his killer.

Incidentally, the killer's previous record is consistent with his being a sociopath -- a man without a conscience. The killer wasn't revolted by Geoghan's crimes -- just as he was not revolted by his own crimes.

The people I feel sorry for are Geoghan's victims and his killer's previous victims.

Vitruvius


P.S: There was a very interesting study 20 or 30 years ago that found that many executioners have similar backgrounds and similar psychological traits to the murderers they put to death. Which makes sense; some people who like killing might well seek out that line of work...

Just as George W. Bu$h got his jollies signing death warrants by the bushel, for the guilty and innocent alike. And, as pResident, lied & cheated to get his war of aggression -- with the resulting thousands and thousands of dead. For Bu$h*, too, is a monster.

Fuck em.

Not a goofed up sociopath?

Nice logic:eyes:

The current prison system is so screwed up that is cruel and produces more violent criminals. It is a cancer on society and as long as people make comments like "Justice served fuck'em" it will continue to get worse.

He was molesting boys before he went to prison. No one made him do it. He had freewill. He got what he deserved and one less piece of shit we don't have to support.

We don't think he was a great guy that deserved better. However we are concerned that our 'justice' system is going down the tubes.

My point by bringing this up was that we have a warped system. I'll be honest though...I didn't expect DU to provide so many examples of the sorts of attitudes that we supposedly trying to avoid.

When it comes to prisoners that aren't held in Cuba DUers much like most Americans couldn't give a shit.

...just FINE dammit!:silly:

Other than the Finns (and some others I'm sure) the World is still in the 19th Century it seems. That's when the US started Liberalizing prison, and the concept of rehabilitation, but there seems to be a backsliding mentality since the 80's.

I blame Reagan/Republicans/Thatcher.

This bogus notion that victims wants should be more important then what is best for society has harmed the justice system. Victims should be encouraged to forgive and move on, not pressed into seeking vengence.

Also what are your thoughts on Sexual Offender being forced to tell their neighbors? How about the national lists they keep.

Either keep them in jail or let them go.

The notification crap is essentially a second, perhaps lessnasty, term of imprisonment.

And, if it were not so late, I'd produce some recidivism rates that make the whole idea bogus.

I had this discussion with a forensic psychiatric, on a flight to NC, a month ago. She agreed that it was simply an act of a hysterical society.

I saw a guy on Oprah(?) who was a convicted child molester who seemed to have a decent attitude about what he'd done, how society treated him, how not to abuse again. Here's one article that talks about him some: http://www.usatoday.com/life/2003-01-28-molester_x.htm
I'm sure there are better articles out there, that's just the first one I saw. I'm no fan of child molesters, I despise them as much as anyone else, but this guy amazed me. I think I'd have him in my home, granted I don't have chidren, but I still think that says a lot. He seemed like a reasonable guy, a truly reformed good person. Maybe it's some act and I'm a sucker and fell for it or something, I don't know. If you get a chance to see a video of him talking about what he did, and what he does now, it may be worth watching - I'm not sure that reading about him conveys the same feeling as seeing him speak.

It's a life sentance of humiliation. I say serve your time and then leave it behind you. I have issues with many crimes having to be released to employers as well.

This country is not honored when its prison population is not safe even locked up. More needs to be done to protect prisoners from rape, assaults and murder. This man was an obvious target. This was pure negligence. No, I don't like child molesters, nor do I like murderers. Both should be stopped, but should be protected to serve their sentense as proscribed by a court of lawl.

That bastard had it coming...

No one is asking you for tears. Must I draw a picture for you? sheesh.

criminals become criminals because they were molested as children, and several posts more or less rejoicing or being unconcerned at the death of the "monster" John Geoghan.

Geoghan's acts will get no defense from me. I have zero tolerance for those who harm children.

But WHY did Geoghan do what he did?

Don't all the experts say that abusers were themselves abused as children?

Why do some who were abused become abusers?

How can the cycle be broken?

cut em off at the pass so to speak.

Boy, I can cover a couple topics at once.

* We don't punish child molesters enough. This one got what deserved, but not the legal way he deserved it. Child molesters should never get out of prison at all.
* People who murder have a strong tendency to do it again -- inside and outside of prison. For those of you who are against the death penalty and are now bemoaning the prison system, remember that.

It really concerns me when one prisoner is able to kill another. I firmly believe even convicted child molestors should be protected from being murdered as well.

American prisons are travesties of justice.

We still claim they serve some sort of "rehabilitative" purpose when,
in fact, they are simply hell holes of punishment.

We, in effect, sentence our prisoners to murder, mutilation, homo-
sexual rape, and daily brutalities far too many to count. We sentence
our prisoners to death via HIV. We sentence them to 5-10 years of
tarde school in becoming far more effective, far more violent
criminals with a far bigger grudge against society than when they
"went in".

We might be more humane just to whack criminals' hands (or whatevers)
off with a scimitar than to send them to American prisons.

Dostoevsky (+/-):

"You can tell the level of the civilization of a nation by looking
into its prisons."

Face it: We ain't civilized, folks.

Geoghan's murder is just the latest proof-point.

Atlant

Touching the wrong places on a fellow inmate will do you in sooner or later.

Enough, we go find ice cream and pie

and actually discuss the criminal justice system rather than the child molester. You've not said that he should have been set free or that we should be grieving his loss, so I am not sure where those comments have come from. (Though I do believe that any human life should be grieved by someone, and I am sure his family are very sad right now).

Nevertheless, what so many seem to want to ignore in their ideas of justice is that we should allow our prison system to deliver sentences that the jury did not hand down. Or that prisoners deserve whatever kind of treatment they get in prison- after all, they committed a crime and must "pay", whatever that means. I guess Brubaker would be their model.

Well, maybe they committed a crime (given our legal system, one never really knows), but most of them will also be returned to society at some point. But the questions we should be looking at are those concerning the types of individuals we want to be facing once they are released from prison. And please, don't anyone argue to me that an individual convicted of robbery or even simple assault should be kept in prison indefinitely. Outside of those individuals who are punished with death or true life sentences, we WILL be seeing many of these people try to re-enter society after their punishment. Do we want someone who has been rehabilitated, taught how to deal with life and people, and perhaps even taught a trade? Or do we want another John William King returned to society?

For those who don't know, King was one of the 3 men who savaged James Byrd in Jasper, Texas. King had also served a few years in a state prison for a prior burglary (or robbery?) conviction. In prison, he learned to hate, was treated like the animal he became, and then was released to do further damage to the Byrd family and society. Yep- that would be such a great model for our criminal justice system to follow. :eyes:

... protective custody only means that you've got nowhere to run and that there are no witnesses.

-- Allen

In our system, punishments are set by judges or juries, not by imprisoned murderers.

You don't have to have sympathy for a child molestor to see that this is a serious problem for our country.

"The ideology of retribution reinforces the practice of spending billions of dollars on chasing, prosecuting, and imprisoning offenders , while a mere pittance is spent on seeking to care for those who have suffered loss. Rather than seeking to diminish the suffering of the victim, retribution seeks to increase the suffering of the offender." p 67

After all, we want to make sure there is not a shortage of suffering.