A new low: Teamsters threaten to picket *dialysis patients*

Just striking against the regular bus service, on an island that is already approaching gridlock at times, is bad enough. If you don't hear from me for a while, just think of all those juicy pension benefits they're preserving (at my expense). :puke:

But these Teamsters are actually planning to picket the Handi-Van paratransit service, used by people with severe disabilities and/or medical needs, even though the Handi-Van contract does not expire for another four years!

http://starbulletin.com/2003/08/23/news/index1.html

Union President Mel Kahele, standing in the parking lot of the Kalihi Shopping Center where the Handi-Van base yard is located, said he believed 80 percent of the Handi-Van employees will participate in a sympathy strike.

"We are encouraging them," he said. "We want this strike to be as effective as possible so we can get off the picket line and start picking up our passengers."

Both union and company officials say picket lines are planned for the Handi-Van site.

Employees at Handi-Van are covered by a separate contract that is in effect for four more years.

Way to go, guys! This ought to do for the unions what torching all those Hummers did for the environmental movement. </sarcasm>

An honest subject line would point out that it's Handi-Van that's being picketed, and not dialysis patients, adn that Handi-Van is making arrangements to get those patients to their treatment centers in the event of a strike by it's drivers.

You also would have pointed out that transporting medical patients is an issue in EVERY transit-related strike, and cities have dealt with such strikes without anyone missing neeeded medical treatment.

Would you have clicked on a thread titled "People with disabilities could become shut-ins tomorrow"? Or "City bus drivers already make considerably more than many college grads who work for nonprofits"?

The point, admittedly bolstered by propaganda, is that Handi-Van still has a valid contract. TheBus drivers (of the fixed-route service) are turning people with disabilities (not just dialysis patients, granted) into a "political volleyball".

I don't want to see layoffs, pay cuts or service cutbacks, either. I would, however, also like to keep my job (since it pays nearly as well as driving a bus!), be able to keep food in the house, and so on. Residential property is considerably undertaxed here, a remnant of the days when we were encouraging the rich to build second homes here -- oh, I forgot, homeowners (and presumably car drivers) matter more than I do, so no fair raising taxes on them. </sarcasm>

Remember, propaganda is only a bad thing when Faux does it... :-)

for attention.

The point, admittedly bolstered by propaganda, is that Handi-Van still has a valid contract. TheBus drivers (of the fixed-route service) are turning people with disabilities (not just dialysis patients, granted) into a "political volleyball".

You dont have a clear understanding of what "strikes" are, do you?

The Teamsters are doing nothing to the dialysis patients. You, and the article you cite, are trying to turn them into a political volleyball.

I don't want to see layoffs, pay cuts or service cutbacks, either. I would, however, also like to keep my job (since it pays nearly as well as driving a bus!), be able to keep food in the house, and so on. Residential property is considerably undertaxed here, a remnant of the days when we were encouraging the rich to build second homes here -- oh, I forgot, homeowners (and presumably car drivers) matter more than I do, so no fair raising taxes on them.

Take a deep breath. Feel better?

Now, listen closely......None of that matters. What matters is the right of people to go on strike. No one has to work for less in order to protect your low taxes, or your job.

Remember, propaganda is only a bad thing when Faux does it

Actually, since Fox gets paid to do it, it's worse when people do it for free. Even worse still, when a "liberal" does it for Fox, for free.

It sounds like the bus drivers are being given a raise, no small feat given the financial situations of most municipalities. So who is making the propaganda now! :)

Inflation would eat into their pay if it weren't raised, and every driver that was laid off would be making less money.

Drivers shouldn't have to lose their jobs so others could keep theirs.

I thought the company was offering $0.60 an hour raise, but that's what the union wants. So you are right that it would amount to a pay decrease.

Inflation would eat into their pay if it weren't raised, and every driver that was laid off would be making less money.

Drivers shouldn't have to lose their jobs so others could keep theirs.

Residential property is considerably undertaxed here, a remnant of the days when we were encouraging the rich to build second homes here -- oh, I forgot, homeowners (and presumably car drivers) matter more than I do, so no fair raising taxes on them.

The above was tagged with </sarcasm> so as to point out that: a) raising taxes is the "fair 'n' balanced" solution to this mess, NOT screwing labor with layoffs or "givebacks"; but b) it'll never happen as long as homeowners, rather than renters like myself, control the majority of votes. Thus, the City Council is protecting the low taxes of others, considerably better off than myself, but not mine.

You dont have a clear understanding of what "strikes" are, do you?

Of course I know what a strike is. It's what happens when you throw the ball in the pocket between the 1 and 3 pins, and all ten pins fall down. :-) But seriously, picketing a separate unit, with a valid contract of its own, that provides an even more essential service than the one you're striking, so as to make absolutely sure you get the sympathy strikers? Ouch.

A point not yet brought out here is that TheBus has been privatized, with Oahu Transit Services as the contractor. That makes this, officially, a garden-variety labor dispute, as opposed to a strike against the city proper. Thus, we bus riders (over 100,000 of us) have no recourse whatever under state or Federal law. And to think, the point of privatization was to save on labor costs...it must have seemed like a good idea at the time!

The above was tagged with </sarcasm> so as to point out that: a) raising taxes is the "fair 'n' balanced" solution to this mess, NOT screwing labor with layoffs or "givebacks"; but b) it'll never happen as long as homeowners, rather than renters like myself, control the majority of votes. Thus, the City Council is protecting the low taxes of others, considerably better off than myself, but not mine.

You also mentioned your job security, but by all means, focus on some minor error of mine, and ignore the point that these other factors are irrelevant.

But seriously, picketing a separate unit, with a valid contract of its own, that provides an even more essential service than the one you're striking, so as to make absolutely sure you get the sympathy strikers? Ouch

Again, you must not understand strikes. No union strikes a health service in order to GAIN sympathy. That's not why they're doing it.

They do it to put pressure on the government to settle the strike on terms favorable to labor.

as I mentioned above. All the city can do is to try to raise revenue -- that is, fares, since they're too chicken to even touch the gas tax.

As for the state, it's now controlled by the Repukes -- 'nuf ced.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2003/Aug/23/ln/ln02a.html

Gov. Linda Lingle said yesterday she hopes the union and bus company work things out. If she did have the power to intervene she said she would prefer not to use it. "Whether or not I have the authority, my preference is for the union and the company to work this out," Lingle said. "Like everyone in the state I'm concerned about a strike of the bus system. It would be bad for everyone, it would be bad for the economy and make life difficult for people trying to get to school and to work."

State chief negotiator Ted Hong said the governor does not have the legal authority to intervene should bus workers strike.

"There's no state law that would permit her to intervene in this strike," he said. "There's really nothing she can do. There's no money she could offer or throw into the mix, there's no legal authority that she could utilize to compel the Teamsters to go back and operate the buses."

This is what happens when you fall asleep and let your neighbors vote for Repukes! The irony is that ol' Fish-face got in in large part because of a perception that unions are too powerful in Hawai'i! If they were, they wouldn't have to employ these sorts of tactics.

It's not the workers job to figure out where the money comes from. That's the employers job.

untill labor stops being hunted to extinction before we worry about jumping on it when it might be (I dont know the case) doing something wrong.

they are picketing a company. Way to poison the well...

The company is contracted with the city to provide an essential public service. (Reason #728 not to privatize!) Once the service goes away, these people will still basically be shut-ins, regardless of where the actual picket line is.

You see, my work here is to make sure that people with disabilities are more a part of the community, not less. This is pretty close to Armageddon for thousands upon thousands of people. The union is not required to picket Handi-Van (which, to reiterate, is under a separate, valid contract). It chooses to do so so as to play hardball with OTS. Trouble is, I and the people I serve are the bat...

Even the article points out that arrangements are being made to transport those who need to be transported. It is dishonest of you to speak as though these people will be left without transportation.

evidentally

sort of like "criticizing Sharpton makes you a racist".

Also note that just because the union may be in the wrong doesn't make management, or the city, right. OTS apparently misrepresented its budgetary needs to the City Council (at least, that's what the Council says). The mayor and council, for their part, sat on their hands until last week (this has been brewing for a couple of months now).

As our many veterans would say, it's a classic Charlie Fox.

You criticized the Teamsters for

a) Supporting Repukes
b) Picketing dialysis patients

and not just one particular local.

I do know the national Teamsters union does, or at least has in the past. If they've changed their bad habits, good!

I know of no other local, Teamsters or otherwise, that has planned to picket paratransit.

didn't they?

You said you were only criticizing one local, when the truth is you attacked the entire Teamsters organization.

I know of no other local, Teamsters or otherwise, that has planned to picket paratransit.

I do. I also know that nurses' unions have struck. So have EMS workers. So have doctors. So have police officers. So have fire officers.

It was not a catastrophe of island-wide proportions, however, because it was against only one hospital, Wahiawa General (in the geographic center of the island). Patients were able to get the care they needed from other area hospitals such as St. Francis West and Queen's. See the exchange between myself and Don 'NNN0LHI' below regarding competition, or in this instance, the lack thereof.

Doctors have struck? Where are doctors unionized?

Aren't police and fire strikes illegal in most places? Again, the problem here is the privatization, so beloved of conservatives, which removes this from being a strike against the public and places it in the same category as a strike against, say, a pineapple cannery. If TheBus were truly a public service, it could have binding arbitration, like HGEA (the state public employees' union) has.

I'll continue to criticize any and all organizations that support Repukes, though the Teamsters seem to be turning it around under their new leadership.

there they go again. Always getting the in way of honest Americans trying to make an honest buck. What did those freakin' teamsters ever do for this country anyway?

Fuck it - I was gonna type out all the usual right-wing screed against organized labor, but it seems like that will all be spewed in due time.

Christ, critical thinking skills, please...

one of the few unions to do so.

What did those freakin' teamsters ever do for this country anyway?


So, they've given support to the party that wants to squash the other unions.

I was gonna type out all the usual right-wing screed against organized labor, but it seems like that will all be spewed in due time.

Well, if it is spewed, it'll have to be by someone else. It just seems to me that in this instance, labor has crossed the line, so to speak, by going after a service that a) is essential to tens of thousands, and b) isn't a party to the contract dispute involving TheBus fixed-route service.

Even though it's been pointed out by several people that the Teamsters are NOT going after dialysis patients, you continue to claim that they are. Your emotional reaction is understandable, but it doesn't justify your lies.

Just looking at the top of the ticket:

1972 - Nixon
1976 - Neutral
1980 - Reagan
1984 - Reagan
1988 - Bush
1992 - Clinton
1996 - Neutral
2000 - Gore

50% of the time.

I'd say they are headed back to the left - what with the Gep support in the last month.

Having read the article I don't beleive they have crossed the line. For one thing, but proposing a contract that needs negotiation they have forestalled and possibly saved the jobs of 40 workers who would be laid off tomorrow.

by your own statement the Teamsters endorsed the Republican 4 times, the Democrat twice, and neutral twice. That is a two to one ratio in favor of Republicans. Aside from police unions I doubt that any other union endorsed anyone but Nixon in 72. It is a dismal record that any Teamster should be utterly ashamed of.

There are many a brand of organized labor. I do support organized labor when I see them trying to do the right thing, and in this case I think attempting to keep the city at the bargaining table to save 40 jobs is the right thing.

To the question at hand - we can parse stats however you want. I see that they went with the Repugs 50% of the time and are now leaning Dem. That, to me is not a consistent lean right. You are correct that the lean to Nixon was reprehensible - the nods to Reagan were even worse. At the national level the Teamsters have a history of being fairly worthless - this is why my shop, white color workers all, elected to go with an organization that is not Teamster affiliated.

4 reps 2 dems. That is 67% no matter how one slices it. They may be doing the right thing here. But that doesn't excuse their awful record nationally.

You have your local posts, state, national. Not sure where I said they were great nationally. All I said was that they do not suport the Repugs consistently. I'll give you your 67 in the last 30 years. In the last 16 they have only swung Repug 25%. Like I said, we can parse stat however you want.

Like em or love em, they have tried to coerce concessions from the Repugs for decades. They tend to lean the direction of person who is gonna carry the win, its true. The resaon for that is that their endorsement comes with a lotta baggage. They use their size as leverage. I don't care for the tactic but nationally they used to be able to swing some policy to workers in that manner. I think those times have vanished with the Repugs.

peace

Are they raking in the profits to give out to the fat cat shareholders and screwing over the workers? Or are they in financial trouble and need to reduce costs to stay in business?

OTS, like many similar firms around the country, was created for the sole purpose of operating TheBus. I have no idea who its shareholders are, whether it's a public company (which I doubt), or what's on its books. The potential for Enronomics, is, obviously, tremendous.

I can tell you that City Council budget committee chair Ann Kobayashi stated, for the record, and with a straight face, that she thought OTS would be able to absorb a cutback of $4.2 million without any service cutbacks (or subsequent layoffs)! She and the Council helped get us into this mess, too: it's just that they haven't, to date, done anything jaw-dropping enough to warrant a GD "propaganda" post! Give 'em time, though: they still have fourteen hours left to put their feet in their mouths...

Most corporate websites have a Company Info section. OTS' does not:

http://www.thebus.org/

It does, however, have lots of info detailing their side of the negotiations (talk about propaganda!):

http://www.thebus.org/New/Negotiations/letter.html

Hmmm... wonder if Carlyle or somebody is behind all these companies. :tinfoilhat: I remember that TMSEL in New Orleans was even more secretive. Funny, I don't know of a case where a company anyone's actually heard of has gotten a privatization contract...

But, do you work in mangement somewhere?

Don

the very ones that will be scrambling for any other means to get out of the house if this happens.

Like most nonprofits, this is a non-union shop. I have no experience on either side of a negotiating table.

It just struck me as a little harsh to bring paratransit into this, was all. Not to mention that they timed the entire action to coincide with the beginning of classes at most public schools and colleges, so as to maximize the coming traffic hell.

And again, I do not support layoffs, or service cutbacks (obviously, I'm a rider myself). What we have here is a classic "fingerpointing ring": OTS is (surprise) blaming the Teamsters, who in turn are blaming the city, who in turn is blaming OTS, and so on.

Another nuance is that a Federal mediator has been involved -- but of course it's the Bush* administration**'s idea of a "mediator", that is, a cheerleader for management. Not exactly a recipe for progress.

The article says that the city will be making arrangements for the patients. They will not be "scrambling"

not just the medical patients. Besides, would you trust the city if it said it was "making arrangements" for you to get to the hospital, but not telling you what the arrangements were?

In a perverse way, it does my heart a bit of good to see someone going this hard to the mat for labor. That way, when (not if) there's an attempt to really bust a union (watch the airlines closely), we know we can count on you to be out there opposing it!

And yes, I would trust the city to do so. As I said earlier, this would not be the 1st strike to impact health care, and past experience shows that there's little to worry about. At least where I live.

You are considered a white collar worker. There is nothing wrong with being a white collar worker either. But coming from a blue collar backgroung, I have learned that for me the only way I was able to improve my working conditions and my families standard of living was through collective bargaining. And yes, sometimes that led to the need to go on strike.

I worked and now retired from the auto industry. The company I worked for made ambulances, and vans that were used to carry the disabled. When we went on strike we did not continue making ambulances and vans for the disabled because someone would say we were being terrible. Why was that? It was because no one wanted to hear that BS because no one was stupid enough to believe it.

If we went on strike, one of our competitors would ramp up their output to meet the increased demand and they would still be delivered. Sure, some people were put out because they had to place another order with a different company, and had some other minor inconveniences in doing so. But so what? That is the way collective bargaining works.

And another thing. Those disabled people will get where they need to go too if their is a strike. Someone who does your kind of work perhaps will have to use their imagination a little bit, and contact a competitor of the company threatening to strike and make some special arrangements. It may be a little inconvenient, but someone who knows what they are doing can get the job done. Rather than sitting around complaining, there may be someone going through the yellow pages and making some calls to see what can be done right now?

Don

This is perhaps the worst of both worlds: a private company that has a monopoly over a public service.

If we went on strike, one of our competitors would ramp up their output to meet the increased demand and they would still be delivered. Sure, some people were put out because they had to place another order with a different company, and had some other minor inconveniences in doing so. But so what? That is the way collective bargaining works.

And another thing. Those disabled people will get where they need to go too if their is a strike. Someone who does your kind of work perhaps will have to use their imagination a little bit, and contact a competitor of the company threatening to strike and make some special arrangements.

Trouble is, this is an island. There are only so many accessible vans that are here, right now. It would take weeks to have more vans shipped here from California, as opposed to a similar situation in Illinois, where additional vans could be driven in from neighboring cities or states relatively quickly. The city has, as you suggest, already looked into alternatives. For instance, there's an accessible taxicab service -- but with only two vehicles, it won't be making much of a dent in the mess. Then there are the Handi-Cabs (not the same as Handi-Van) -- but at $20 plus mileage, that's not a huge help to people living on benefit checks, either.

You have, in fact, hit on the very reason labor is so strong here in the first place: our vulnerability to supply disruptions. Just whisper the words "dock strike" and watch everyone head to Costco to clean out the essentials: toilet paper, sacks of rice, and Spam. (I'm not kidding.) A dock strike in 1947 paralyzed the islands for six full months. Nothing moved in or out. Supplies of food were dwindling -- and remember, the population now is about four times what it was then.

Island life, even "American-style", is one of limited resources; we don't have the "blank check" that mainlanders all too often think they do. That applies to space for highways, too: that's why we need an extensive transit system in the first place.

...some islanders think we do. I am still waiting for water good enough to drink from the tap after living 15 years in this small town (Pop. 1000) that I live in. Hopefully someday?

As far as the length of time and the cost involved, it appears someone did some very poor planning. The expiration date of a union contract is never kept secret. They are usually known years in advance. This was no surprise to anyone. Its obvious someone was dragging their feet here. Whoever is responsible for that should be fired. The union is not at fault in this case. And I also suspect that if time was needed to bring in vehicles from California or anywhere in a life or death sitation that the union would work with the powers that be. That is my experience with unions throughout my life anyway.

Don

Its obvious someone was dragging their feet here. Whoever is responsible for that should be fired.

A top candidate would be Ann Kobayashi, budget committee chair, who approved the $4.2 million cut and claims she didn't realize it would entail service cutbacks!

I'd vow never to support her again, but I got redistricted...

The "blank check" mainlanders aren't, of course, the ones from blue-collar, small-town backgrounds. They're the ones who drive their SUVs into ever-expanding suburbs (express bus service to newly developed suburbs is a part of the problem here) and, by and large, vote Repuke.

>>>A new low: Ann Kobayashi $4.2 million cut in services may cause lack of services for *dialysis patents*<<<

to a strike by the fixed-route bus drivers (she claims to have been misled by OTS, the operating company, not that I believe her or anything), she could not have foreseen the strike spreading to Handi-Van, because (he reiterated) the Handi-Van contract doesn't expire for another four years.

And besides, who would have clicked on an Ann Kobayashi thread? Instead of being up to 45 posts, with a spirited discussion going full blast, the thing would've sunk to the bottom like a busted surfboard, and I'd be over in the Lounge deciding whether I hate Britney Spears more than Madonna. :-)

This is a very low move. A general bus strike should create quite an inconvenience for the city on its own. There is no need to target a service for the disabled and encourage a "sympathy strike".

If a Handi-Van strike occurs, they will not be able to provide full services to the disabled and will have to ration the rides. So there is no doubt that some disabled people will be affected.

Just the transit service which is pushing a two year pay freeze for these drivers. Are you suggesting that only drivers or underpaid healthcare workers should not be allowed to strike?

...go out of their way to get Handi-Van drivers involved on a sympathy basis. The apocalyptic gridlock we'll see tomorrow morning should be quite enough to get the city off its duff, where it had been until just last week.

Shouldn't they have the right to get other drivers on their side?

The city's corporations and taxpayers are the ones that need to get off their duff. These workers should not be underpaid, and a working infrastructure doesn't come on the cheap.

people with disabilities, who often don't have any other options, in order to make a point at the bargaining table.

It's not like they don't have solidarity from other labor groups:

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2003/Aug/25/br/br01p.html

Outside city hall, some members of Local 5 of the Hotel Employees & Restaurant Employees Union picketed to show support for bus drivers and accused the city of causing the impending strike.

Next to the dockworkers, Local 5 is probably the most powerful union in this tourist-oriented city.

Underpaid? We report, you decide:

http://starbulletin.com/2003/08/25/news/index2.html

After five years on the job, city bus drivers in Honolulu earn more than police officers, firefighters and public school teachers, according to salary information gathered by the company that runs TheBus for the city.

Honolulu's bus drivers are also among the top 25 wage earners of public transit systems across the country, according to an industry survey of more then 200 bus systems.

The accompanying chart, however, shows us in 21st place, below much lower-cost Champaign, Ill.



A driver responds, from the above-linked Advertiser article:

Young also disputed allegations that drivers are overpaid. "I am threatened at least once a month," he said. "I’ve been spit on, assaulted and involved in an accident causing death.

"I drive on the narrowest streets in one of the most congested cities in the nation," he added. "I earn every penny I’m paid every day."