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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 11:24 PM
Original message
Bush's Nightmare: Total Meltdown in Iraq Results in a U.S. Retreat.
Edited on Wed Aug-27-03 11:30 PM by David Zephyr
Get ready for the beginning of America's retreat from Iraq. That's right, I said "retreat" --- the very word that George Bush used yesterday as he thumped his chest to the national convention of the American Legion meeting in St. Louis. We are about to cut and run and try to save as much face as possible in order to prevent the coming utter meltdown in Iraq that is rapidly shaping up.

The signals have been coming from out of the Bush Administration for days now. Since the bombing of the U.N. compound in Baghdad, the daily loss of two or three American soldiers in Iraq, the ever-growing boldness of the Iraqi uprising and protests against U.S. occupation of the country, the Bush Administration has been in a near bunker mentality trying to find anyway out of the growing quagmire.

Indeed, this very weekend Republican Senators such as Kay Bailey Hutchinson, John McCain and Chuck Hagel began sounding off publicly that the Pentagon had better put as many as an additional 100,000 troops immediately into Iraq, not for the so-called "reconstruction" of that nation, but merely to protect our own soldiers who are increasingly finding themselves in harm's way. John McCain said that the U.S. might have as little time as only a few weeks left before the entire situation completely turns into a disaster.

Meanwhile, Colin Powell and the State Department have been working overtime in back channels at the United Nations in search of some compromise that would allow nations like France and Russia to enter Iraq under a U.N. mandate---even if it means surrendering Bush's "authority" over the region.

That's how bad the situation has become. That's how desperate the Bush Administration now is revealing themselves to be. Consider the following recent developments in the last 24 hours alone:

1. Today in Paris, in a stunning, direct contradiction to the White House's public positions that the U.S. has enough troops already in Iraq to maintain order and will under no circumstances relinquish any authority whatsoever to the U.N. or other nations in Iraq, the Pentagon's leading "adviser and architect of the U.S. war to topple Saddam Hussein said the United States had made mistakes in Iraq and that power should be handed over to the Iraqis as fast as possible." Listen to Perle's very words to Le Figaro: "Today, the answer is to hand over power to the Iraqis as soon as possible." Why is Richard Perle leaking this "trial balloon" to a foreign newspaper in France, of all places? Because the U.S. is in deep trouble in Iraq. Forget the search for Weapons of Mass Destruction and any rebuilding of the nation, a complete breakdown in order is now underway in Iraq. Our soldiers will soon be in the thick of dangerous urban warfare that the early critics of the war warned about. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=716&e=14&u=/nm/20030827/ts_nm/iraq_usa_perle_dc

2. Less than one hour ago from this posting, the Associated Press reported, "the Bush administration is exploring the possibility of establishing a U.N.-endorsed multinational force in Iraq." The article goes on to say that "Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage acknowledged that the idea is one of many being weighed by the administration as it attempts to deal with continuing violence in that country almost four months after President Bush declared an end to major combat operations." Further, the A.P. reveals that "Secretary of State Colin Powell traveled to New York last Thursday to issue an appeal for a new U.N. Security Council resolution that would reinforce U.N. support for the deployment of additional foreign forces in Iraq" but was confronted with "continuing resentment among many Security Council members about the U.S. decision in March to go to war in Iraq without U.N. endorsement. Since then, the administration has been trying out other ideas that would address U.S. concerns about continuing instability in Iraq without yielding to American insistence on retaining command over international forces in Iraq." Still, the French have insisted that "a genuinely international approach to Iraq with a sharing of authority is the best way to bring stability to Iraq and enable the country to move forward." Any wonder why Richard Perle is in Paris today raising the white flag? http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030828/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iraq_un&cid=542&ncid=716

3. Just twenty-four hours ago, President Bush pledged that there would be "no retreat" in Iraq in a speech to US military veterans on at the national convention of the American Legion. Bush has now introduced the very word "retreat" just as his minions are seeking the fastest way out of the escalating hell in Iraq. What Bush is telling the American people that you are about to see his Administration reverse our entire posture and policy on Iraq and begin to retreat, but it will not be a "retreat" even though it looks and smells like it. http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/redir.php?jid=959d4e7737e7fc30

Of course, this does not even address the billions upon billions of dollars in debt that the American taxpayers are being handed.

Naturally, this will be very hard for many neocons and the Republican hardcore base to swallow, but having the wrath of the American people is also a tough pill as well.

Look for the white flag to be raised within the next two weeks with a surrender of some U.S. authority to the U.N. and a redistribution of the oil contracts that Bush and Cheney had originally given to Bechtel and Halliburton. Of course, we will not dare call it a "white flag" when it happens, will we?

--David Zephyr, Claremont, California




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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. pResident Ass & Elbows
(TM)
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Rollins Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. I agree
Bush and his cronies have to make some deal with holdout countries like France, Russia and Germeny so they send in troops. End result? I am clueless right now.
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. Damn. You mean they finally see the light?
After declaring that Iraq is now the center of terror in the War Against Terrorism? They got some real spinning to do. Be interesting to see how they do it. I don't think it'll work though.
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. sarcasm on
:tinfoilhat: you mean to make the preposterous proposition that whistle ass will admit a mistake???

actually, if you are correct and these guys are willing to give up what they have planned on for years and the trillions of dollars potentially at stake things really must be desperate!!
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. They obviously read Dean's recommendations
and are trying to actually implement them, thus beating him to the punch and making him unable to criticize them on those points.

Thanks Dean!
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jburton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. You assume....
...that BFEE would EVER admit to not being 100% correct.

* will never cower to the evil-dooers!
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Clete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
7. So all it will take is for Bush to surrender control to
the United Nations. Will he?
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 02:41 AM
Response to Original message
8. I guess I am out of expletives
but that fuckhead with a capital FUCK! McCain has to be the best example of the pathological idiocy of politics that ever existed. I am convinced this guy has learned not one single thing from Vietnam.


OH, I forgot, 9/11 happened since Vietnam, but if he doesn't see that this is a BFEE operation then he has turned into a true blue and blind patriot.

My message to John:

John, we are going to lose in Iraq, and that is because, like Vietnam, we were wrong. Fascists may have tried to make wars more legitimate, wars undeclared by Congress (no, it ain't passe') after 9/11, but the bottom line is that due process must be followed or we all fail. Iraq is a resource war, the terrorists are Saudi funded and seem to work, inadvertantly or otherwise, for the BFEE. The war is about oil.

If the US does not put a concerted effort out to get off the foreign oil habit then this country deserves to go down the tubes. Stupidity is not an option here.
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Sweetpea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I think his statements scared the hell out of a lot of Americans
More of our tax dollars...more troops?
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
10. Yup.
Edited on Thu Aug-28-03 03:29 AM by Buzzz
If I was the U.N. I would demand regime change in the U.S. before I agreed to lift one goddam finger risking people's lives by placing them under the command of the moron bastards who created this mess. "We don't support international outlaws" might be a good place to start.

Checkmate. Game over.
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Vitruvius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 04:03 AM
Response to Original message
11. If the UN bails Bu$h* out of Iraq, he'll invade some other country.
Right now, we've got too much of our forces tied up in Iraq -- but once they're out, Bu$h will use them to invade somewhere else. The only question is where.

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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Haven't you seen the memo?
It's been All Iran all the time...avenge the "embarassment" of 1979 (even though Poppy Bush made sure our hostages would enjoy Iranian "hospitality" past election day to ensure a GOOP "victory").

Look at the push on the U.N. on Iran's "nuclear" program. We're hearing the same hemming and hawing from the Iranians we heard from Saddam...and the Chickenhawks screaming "we told you so"...just wait, soon we'll hear how Iran has the delivery systems (Korean missiles), secret bio program and even knolwedge of the secret ingredient in Coca Cola.

Evidence? Who needs it...this regime has gotten away clean on Iraq, and why stop now? Looking at Chenney's oil map (circa Jan. 2001), the pipeline routes in Afghanistan and Iraq are done...Iran is the missing link to total oil dominance (don't forget all those new pipelines in the former "Stans" that the BFEE had their mitts on for years now).

When all that oil is locked away...and secure (thanks to our military and billions in payoffs) then we'll deal with the Saudis...
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 04:47 AM
Response to Original message
12. Victory From The Jaws Of Defeat???
I don't trust this regime one bit...there's some back-room BFEE deal brewing.

Or, the Neocon & Chickenhawk spinners will come up with some grand story that the acceptance of foreign troops signals international "acceptance" of this invasion and how great the Chimp in Thief was to "open up a Democratic Iraq" to the rest of the world.

RoveCo's biggest fear is American blood...these bastards don't mind spending 10 or 100 billion of our dollars as long as the press doesn't watch...the daily drip of one or two new American dead is what they want to stop. Ya can't finish the rape while everyone is watching.

This is just more contempt for all the "values" the Repugnicans claim that are exposed every day to be the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on this country or the world.

If I were in a position of influence, the Impeachment would be well underway and evidence would be on the way to the Hague...first in the dock, Perle followed by Wolfowitz and then Reichmarshall Rumsfeldt.
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diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. rove is certainly working on squashing any reporting of American
soldiers' deaths...low-balling the numbers, separating into all these non-combat catagories, even under the most outrageous conditions (vehicle hit by RPG, swerves out of control and rolls, ONE soldier dies, catagory: vehicle accident)

and now, there are NO REPORTERS left to cover anything in the increasingly wild Iraq....even our soldiers have abandoned whole areas of Baghdad, and are hunkered down in the presidential palace and the airport, which they feel they can defend...and even that is questionable....what a mess!!! upcoming prediction: something BIG, killing LOTS of American soldiers...like a beirut barracks attack, or a cole attach...something like that...then Americans will start to scream LOUDER....

BTY: Welcome to DU, IMRadioactive...good to hear from you....

:hi: :hi: :hi: :hi:

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


:nuke:

at the White House, March 22, 2003
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berry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Tonight on BBC someone mentioned 50 British deaths
(and that also may be a fudged figure). So it's odd that the US media only reports US deaths (when they bother to do that). I've never heard anyone total up "coalition" deaths. So much for respecting our "coaltion partners."
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
27. Welcome to the DU, IMRadioactive! He Should Be Impeached!
You are as cynical as I am.

They've really gotten our nation and our troops into one hell of a mess in Iraq.

Glad to meet you here. :hi:
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 05:12 AM
Response to Original message
14. Later rather than sooner, I'm afraid
Things are going badly over there--the pipeline keeps blowing up and even Basra is getting very dangerous. Unfortunately, I think, just as they were too stupid to stay out, they're too stupid to get out.
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Noordam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 05:30 AM
Response to Original message
15. There is more OIL in Iran than Iraq
Troops is * and Dickie biggest problem. If they turn over Iraq to the UN and say only get 25% of the Oil, that would free up enough troops to attack Iran and get 100% of Iran's Oil

IMHO they are not going to pull out of Iraq or turn it over to the UN but if they do so, they are doing so they can attack Iran
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el_gato Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. I don't think they call pull off and invasion of Iran

I don't think the troops would stand for it and
too many people in the U.S. are suspicious.

And I don't think we have the resources.

Holding down Iran would be harder than Iraq.
How would it(invading iran) be any different than another
quagmire?
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lanlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
16. about slimeball Perle
That was the most shameless, brazen attempt at CYA we've seen yet from this Administration, and that's saying a lot.... He's trying to exculpate himself by shifting blame to the war planners. And who knows, maybe Perle's realizing that his most excellent adventure in the Land of Saddam may end up costing * the presidency and Richard Perle his power and influence.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Kick!
:kick:
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
18. Think we can't lose in Iraq? Look at Afghanistan...
According to an article in LBN today, the Taliban (remember them?) have recaptured 2 entire districts and part of another this week:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=87180

How long before we read on page A22 that Kandahar has fallen to them again?

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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
19. No Change
This was part of Bush's plan all along. He has not altered from his previous unspoken, top secret plan for Iraq. He really intended to piss off the French, Germans, and Russians so they wouldn't risk their own people in a possible WMD showdown, but now that the brave Americans have secured Iraq, France, Germany, and Russia can now safely come in and help in the pacification efforts.

Why it only makes sense that the strongest democracies participate in crafting a brand new democracy in Iraq.

You all should be ashamed of yourselves if you actually thought Bush was going to do all of this with just American troops. He would never jeopardize our troops like that.

Oh, and when he said "Bring it on" he was talking about the electricity in Iraq.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
21. Here is the Confirmation Now Some 12 Hours Later. Bush Surrenders.
I knew it. Bush is about to surrender control of Iraq.

"U.S. Now Signals It Might Consider U.N. Force in Iraq" http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=68&ncid=68&e=3&u=/nyt/20030828/ts_nyt/usnowsignalsitmightconsiderunforceiniraq

How bad must things truly be there for Bush to be caving in, to be "retreating"?
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cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
22. yahoo coverage of the french interview: whitewash of interview...
Edited on Thu Aug-28-03 03:53 PM by cap
the interview was a scream!!!

They didn't dare translate the questions:

(Loose translation):

Do you think you were wrong not to wait for inspectors to finish their work in Iraq?

Last winter, you said the reason why the US invaded Iraq was WMD? Since you haven't found any, aren't you embarassed?

Isn't the problem of Iranian arms (ie WMD) just as grave and real as that of Iraq?

Public opinion in Britain believes that Blair had grossly exaggerated the problem of WMD to provoke Britain into entering the war. A similar sentiment is beginning to emerge in the US. Don't you think that by doing this, Blair and Bush have reduced their room to maneuver in the North Korean and Iranian Nuclear weapons?

If there it becomes necessary to go to war with Iran, it's possible that the House of Commons in Britain won't follow you...

The ambitious program of Condoleeza Rice: to punish the French, ignore the Germans and forgive the Russians -- is that policy still in force today?

France, isn't she a true friend of the US? Don't true friends tell you everything, even things that make you angry, in order to give you good advice?

Are you satisfied with the situation in Iraq today?

How can you pretend that the situation in Iraq today administered by the Americans is a good one?

Do you think anarchy is better than dictatorship?

When Perle answers this question by saying that France had a lot of anarchy in 1944, Le Figaro replies that not a single American soldier was killed -- not in France and not in Germany.

Dont you think that there's a striking difference between the military preparation, the invasion and the total unpreparedness of the American civil administration? The looting, the vandalisation of ministeries, the pillaging of the archives... And then, you say that the world is going to judge you on your results of civil administration? Isn't that a historical American failure?

What about letting the United Nations administer Iraq?

When you leave Iraq, aren't you risking the rise of a shiite regime more anti-american than Saddam?

The only good thing about Saddam's regime was the religious tolerance and the education of women. Today, the Christian minority is very worried, and the number of women in school has fallen by 50% because of the insecurity in the streets. Isn't it paradoxical that the American intervention has resulted in the weakening of the Christians and the women?

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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Beautiful, Cap!
It was a scream! Thanks. :hi:
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Wow. Where can I find the trascript hopefully in English?
Boggles the mind literally when a real journalist asks real and INTELLIGENT questions without flinching or kneeling into position!!!

Damn, I gotta read this!!!
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Cap's Post Really Sheds Great Light on World Opinion.
I'm with you, Jacobin.

How about the question that CAP shared here: "Do you think anarchy is better than dictatorship?"
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drb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
23. Bump!
nt
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
26. could this be "as planned"....think about it
they set up "thier govt"...it's blessed by UN

they set up thier oil contracts and corp whore contracts....

the troops are free for the "next war"..and they leave.
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