Does John Kerry deserve to invoke RFK?

Robert Francis Kennedy is a hero of mine. Along with Eleanor Roosevelt and George McGovern, I feel that Bobby serves as the spiritual beacon of the Democratic Party. And just as I was disgusted to learn that President Clinton (a wonderful Republican president, to be sure) invoked RFK as he presided over the passage of Welfare Reform, I was equally appalled to find John Kerry quoting RFK on the campaign trail.

Robert Kennedy was no saint: he approved several covert plans to attack Cuba's infrastructure; he allowed for Hoover to conduct his own personal war against Dr. King; he was instrumental in getting America more entrenched in Vietnam. I think it would be safe to say that the RFK of 61-63 was a calculating realist.

But things did not remain as they were. Bobby evolved into a tortured humanist: uttering the words of Camus and Aeschelus with a haunting sincerity; observing firsthand the impoverished denizens of the Mississippi Delta; befriending Chavez amid his confrontation with the fascist police force suppressing the migrant workers of California; debating the immorality of the Vietnam War with his polar opposite, Ronald Reagan.

Kennedy possessed the moral courage needed to save us from Lyndon Johnson's madness--a liberal president of his own party; what could we expect of John Kerry, a senator who not only voted for this war to save his own political ass, but is astoundingly silent in countering the machinations of a president of a different party?

RFK's campaign was a unique effort to unite the working class and the poor into a force that would challenge the foundation of power in this country. Kerry's is that of a campaign targeted towards the middle class, and I am tired of this limited focus on social security and 401K's.

Is there any indication that Kerry's vision of America is remotely close to Kennedy's?

I was okay with him. Until I found out he supported Bush I's invasion of panama (Zinn, A Peoples History 20th Anniversary Edition, pg 594).

"Liberal Democrats (John Kerry and Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts, and many others) declared their support of the military action."

I would be curious to know

But anyone who did, would still be wrong.

Grouped By Vote Position YEAs ---74
Adams (D-WA)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bentsen (D-TX)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Boren (D-OK)
Boschwitz (R-MN)
Bradley (D-NJ)
Breaux (D-LA)
Bryan (D-NV)
Bumpers (D-AR)
Burdick (D-ND)
Burns (R-MT)
Byrd (D-WV)
Chafee (R-RI)
Coats (R-IN)
Cochran (R-MS)
Cohen (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Cranston (D-CA)
Danforth (R-MO)
Daschle (D-SD)
DeConcini (D-AZ)
Dixon (D-IL)
Dodd (D-CT)
Domenici (R-NM)
Durenberger (R-MN)
Exon (D-NE)
Ford (D-KY)
Fowler (D-GA)
Glenn (D-OH)
Gore (D-TN)
Gorton (R-WA)
Grassley (R-IA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hatfield (R-OR)
Heinz (R-PA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (R-VT)
Johnston (D-LA)
Kassebaum (R-KS)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerrey (D-NE)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lugar (R-IN)
Matsunaga (D-HI)
McCain (R-AZ)
Metzenbaum (D-OH)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Mitchell (D-ME)
Moynihan (D-NY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nunn (D-GA)
Packwood (R-OR)
Pell (D-RI)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reid (D-NV)
Riegle (D-MI)
Robb (D-VA)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Roth (R-DE)
Rudman (R-NH)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Sasser (D-TN)
Simon (D-IL)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Warner (R-VA)
Wirth (D-CO)

NAYs ---25
Armstrong (R-CO)
D'Amato (R-NY)
Dole (R-KS)
Garn (R-UT)
Graham (D-FL)
Gramm (R-TX)
Hatch (R-UT)
Heflin (D-AL)
Helms (R-NC)
Hollings (D-SC)
Humphrey (R-NH)
Kasten (R-WI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lott (R-MS)
Mack (R-FL)
McClure (R-ID)
McConnell (R-KY)
Nickles (R-OK)
Pressler (R-SD)
Sanford (D-NC)
Shelby (D-AL)
Symms (R-ID)
Thurmond (R-SC)
Wallop (R-WY)
Wilson (R-CA)

Not Voting - 1
Simpson (R-WY)

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=101&session=1&vote=00228

A broken clock is right twice a day, as I've seen stated here.

edit: I don't get your overall point. Does that mean many of the Democrats voted wrong? Or that because the minority voted Nay, the majority was right?

like the Gulf War II vote

therefore by default should you not have some respect for the
the senators who opposed it? Based on their position?

didnt understand, celebrating my 20th bday tonite with Heineken.

I respect thier vote(s), that vote may be right, but what of the other ones? Looked at as a whole.

Trent Lott. Throw in Orin Hatch, Pete Wilson for good measure. Lieberman lining up with a slew of Republicans is supposed to be a good thing?

and the facts surrounding that vote and the war. Voting against it IS a good thing.

edit: If you think otherwise, then maybe I am further from the Democratic party than even I think.

Look at my avatar I think hes probably the best friend of the poor and working class. Bobby also spoke a lot about the ablity of the indivdiual if you go to Kucinich's site like I do you will see the same.

but Bobby is my hero too. If what you say about Bobby's efforts to unite the lower classes I think that makes and I dont mean to be biased because they dont have much in common but I think Kucinich and RFK have some things special about them, plus Ive seen DK invoke RFK before too. That said you know Teddy K is endorsing John Kerry.

Like President Kennedy, John Kerry is a war hero. Like JFK, John Kerry is a more intellectual/cerebral man while RFK was more animated and more expressive of his feelings.

His voting record is very close to Ted Kennedy's. He's close to the Kennedy family and as a Boston Brahmin, he spent much of his youth in awe of the Kennedy's and often visited there estates and went on sailing trips with them.

Plus, Bobby Kennedy was actually stridently criticizing welfare's "culture of dependency" when he died. Kerry voted for welfare reform b/c he felt that reform was needed and that was the best bill that could be passed with a republican congress -- I'm sure a President Kerry w/ a Dem congress would strive to get implemented those parts of welfare reform that Dems sought such as greater job training and more relief for single mothers, etc.

Kerry has tirelessly worked to pass Kyoto and has been a friend to the environment. His votes on matters most important to Kennedy have been in line with what Kennedy would have done.
He has been an active proponent of civil rights and affirmative action.
He won his senate seat without strong corporate support.

I really hate that his vote has been used against him so much on DU. Frankly that vote followed a closed door intelligence meeting where many changed their minds.

I would challenge anyone to sit in that meeting with whatever was said and then vote depending on the circumstances and running the risk of being wrong.

I have ALWAYS disagreed with the war vote and mostly hold my contempt for those in the Rose Garden ceremony which was the beginning of the end of Dem unity in this matter but Kerry's record is NO less than Bobby's.

Drawing analogies to past candidates really doesn't help too much, because the comparisons break down quickly. I don't think John Kerry is like RFK, JFK, or MLK. He's John Kerry, and I'm satisfied with that.

Kerry is a pretty good guy I think he has some things in common with good old Jack Kennedy.

I agree, most people under 50 are not going to
know enough about JFK to even compare him to
someone. The time Kerry would spend "remembering
when" would be better spent on the here and now.
Dean is not ahead in the polls because he spends
time connecting to the aura of someone else.

sort of a Ted K in a tired retread way.

Doesn't make him a bad person but its a foolish connection to try and pursue.

Kerry thinks he is perfect, and he did vote for the war in Iraq.

No comparison!

I remember watching that HBO movie on LBJ and one scene where Johnson is screaming at the tv where RFK was on saying "You know damn well that you pushed for war in Vietnam as much as anybody."

Now, I'm too young to remember JFK or RFK, both were long dead by the time I was born. But I do think that if Kerry is elected president he will be the best president this nation has had since those Camelot days back in the early 60's.

I think he got mad at the escalation of the war. He probably like his brother thought sending advisors was ok but then realized he was wrong. The life and times of RFK by Schlessinger is a great book and the mini series lets just say I cried when good old Bobby passed on but LBJ gives him hell for once supporting the war and Bobby was like I was wrong.

and if he hadn't been so instrumental in getting JFK elected he wouldn't have had enough clout to get it done.

Or I guess now we can just read the candidate's mind and fill in the blanks with those we are not supporting.

This is getting a little silly.

I'll buy your Ted K analogy -- but even that I find wanting.

Eloriel

Kerry's record shows he's carrying forward the tradition of the New Deal and the New Frontier. Kerry believes government can do the great things needed to make our country a better place. Check out his voting record in the US Senate and you'll see he's done what it takes to support public education, the environment, children's issues, women's rights, civil rights, organized labor, small business, and a whole bunch of legislation of benefit to ALL Americans.

BTW: Ted Kennedy has had his share of tragedy, losing his brother and a sister during World War 2 and two brothers for their politics being just a start. In all that he's suffered, he has never turned his back on doing what was best for the American people. People who disagree with his politics criticize him and bother me.

But don't be surprised when people get pissed off at you. Kerry invoking RFK doesn't bother me, but I don't have any memory of RFK and don't particularly care for him. Bummer that he was killed in 68 though, he'd have made a better prez than Nixon.

"astoundingly silent in countering the machinations of a president of a different party".

Huh ??? You've been away ?

I believe that any Democrat has the right to invoke any of the great Democrats of the past to make a case against bush jr. (except maybe Lieberman for the oft stated reasons).

Any D over any r in '04! :bounce:

... like his older brothers Joe and John, who both served courageously. RFK wanted to end the war in Vietnam.

Kerry, too, is a Navy veteran. He served courageously in Vietnam. When he returned home, he worked to end the war in Vietnam.

Like the Kennedys and their philosophical leader, FDR, Kerry is a Liberal Democrat who is strong on national defense. He has worked to protect women's rights, civil rights, public education, the natural environment, free enterprise, small business, organized labor and liberal courts. He has supported the nation's military, especially the men and women who serve and have served.

Why this combination? Kerry understands America saved the free world during World War 2 from the fascists and in the Cold War from the communists. If we are to remain free, we must maintain the strongest military.

Because of his 35 years of active service to the country, in uniform and as an elected official, Kerry has earned the right to claim that branch of political philosophy. On a more human level, he knew the Kennedys, personally. Going by his record, it's a good bet their idealism rubbed off on him.



BTW: JFK wanted to end American involvement in Vietnam before it became a war. He signed National Security Action Memorandum (NSAM) 263, orders stating his intention. LBJ rescinded those order within days of Dallas in NSAM 273.

But do you know what he is really THINKING? He may think he is perfect, or smart, or rich, or who knows what else. We must know his inner thoughts.

How dare he even think of mentioning RFK. And to say he is perfect like him. Oh, he didn't ? Never mind.

Kerryfan, I assume that you do know a great deal of information about RFK, so I would presume that as a progressive you too were touched by the plethora of speeches wherein Kennedy condemned that this nation--under the wrong hands--had revolved around war and greed. While he was certainly not a socialist, RFK was challenging the entire capitalist structure. And he was taken away from us.

You give me ONE shred of evidence that Kerry is interested in either lowering the military budget, ending the war, or alleviating the suffering endured by our poor. NOT the upper-middle class, whom President Clinton was so intent on pleasing, but our poor. Try to convince me that Kerry suffered the spiritual transformation needed to address the fact that over a quarter of our children live below the poverty line. Being a liberal is not enough to be compared to RFK; is Kerry a humanist?

What's the problem with Kerry wanting to protect America with the strongest military in the world? The men and women in our armed forces, and the veterans of the same, are major reasons why our nation is free today. Otherwise, America's enemies would be doing all they could to enslave or destroy us. That's history and that's the present reality.

It sounds like you, DU Friend DerekG, aren't familiar with Kerry's record in public life. Check out some of his Liberal credentials as measured by the Americans for Democratic Action, the Children's Defense Fund, the Sierra Club, the ACLU, the NAACP, and other progressive organizations. You'll see he really is a Liberal Democrat. You'll also be glad to see he also is like RFK and JFK in wanting to do what is necessary to protect America.

You should examine the records and recalculate your premise.

He had a deep reverence for both Jack and Bobby from his schooldays on. He has proven himself to be brave under fire, and has a record of exposing government corruption that few can match.

I've seen reports that show pictures of young Kerry, as elite as ever, on the Kennedy yacht with JFK himself. He apparently cruised about 3 times with JFK. Says he remembers the kids. (For whatever that's worth)

Wait for it, though. You will see that Kerry has had a Forest Gumplike life. Lots of surprising situations such as courageous anti-war public speachifying after he got back from the Vietnam War. And strident anti-war congressional testimony from the young pre-political Kerry.

Also, his wife is a vocal, no-nonsense progressive with a good philantropic record of support for liberal causes. Beneficiary of the Heinz ketchup fortune. (For whatever that's worth)

and real life though, right ?

if he's ok with Kerry quoting Bobby, then I'm ok with it too.