I think civil war possible in the next three years if things keep going RW

I'm serious, the rallying point is our US Constitution not the eXecutive bRanch.

I'm an American already in infowar on the Internet against other Americans.

You can take that to the bank.O8)

imho., ok?

factor for elite effects imho.
But today it's the evil Straussians they went for everything and failed:grr:they have to be held accountable for their CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY and against we, the people, the citizens of the United States of America.

:D

not even. I've got enough to field my family if need be. :)

and the RW would be in a huge surprise if they thought they'd not meet armed resistance from progressives if it came to that.

Not that I think it will, mind you. In fact it's probably rather counterproductive to venture thoughts of civil violence. It's rather, er, freeperish.

already profoundly affected, and a call to rally around our Constitution isn't freeperish imo.
It's patriotic like DU.

"present company excluded." I've passed on my share of DU rants that have gone off half-cocked about the possibility of violent uprising in these not-so United States.

If it makes DUers feel better to know that there are others (like myself) willing to shoulder arms to defend what's right, fine.

Won't they be surprised.

They like to think they have the market cornered on gun ownership.

As Gomer Pyle used to say "Surpise Surpise"

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Welcome to DU.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I love this forum.

We can ALWAYS use help keeping that crazy train running.

Relax. Bob is venting.

seems to be what you are avoiding.

just because you ignore it doesn't mean it won't happen.

edit for coherency

People around here (Birmingham, AL) of the paleo-conservative and moderate/liberal opinion have mentioned it as an option without any prompting. With an unprecedented growth in corporate power abetted by complicit legislators, we're looking at the erosion of a middle class. I think it could come to blows over theocracy, economics, and an increasingly totalitarian state.

I can't see Americans picking up guns and shooting and killing fellow Americans.

I agree that it is not likely. However, it has happened here many times, not to mention the initial military action after declaring our independence.

On and on ...

Think again

When haven't Americans been taking arms against one another:

* the Klan
* military deployment to break strikes (Homestead, Colorado, Blair Mountain)
* Tulsa race riots
* Post Rodney King verdict melees
* Stonewall

Commercial Photograph. "The Five Chicago Anarchists. November 11th, 1887. Retail price, 25 cts.
Special Collections & Preservation Division, Chicago Public Library

The only original photographs, taken May 3rd, 1887, in the County Jail, by J. J. Kanberg, 433 E. Division St., Chicago.

To the Public! Ten per cent from the Retail Price, on all copies sold, will be kept separately as a fund in favor of the Anarchist's children. J. J. Kanberg, Photographer."

The five men are clockwise from 1:00 o'clock:

A. R. Parsons
Adolph Fischer
George Engel
August Spies
Louis Lingg (in the middle with two letter g's at the end of his name).

The first four were hanged on Friday, November 11, 1887. Lingg committed suicide on November 10, 1887 by lighting a stick of dynamite in his mouth.
http://www.chipublib.org/004chicago/disasters/haymarket...
...

The rally began about 8:30 p.m. May 4 at the Haymarket, a site on Randolph between Halsted and Des Plaines Street, but due to low attendance it was moved a half block away to Des Plaines Street north of Randolph Street. After 10 p.m., as the rally drew to a close, 176 policemen led by Inspector John Bonfield moved in demanding immediate dispersal of the remaining 200 workers. Suddenly a bomb exploded. In the chaos that followed shots were fired by police and perhaps by workers. One police officer was killed by the bomb, six officers died later and sixty others were injured. No official count was made of civilian deaths or injuries probably because friends and/or relatives carried them off immediately. Medical evidence later showed that most of the injuries suffered by the police were caused by their own bullets.

All well known anarchists and socialists were rounded up and arrested in the days following the riot. Thirty one of them were named in criminal indictments and eight held for trial.

Although the bomb thrower has never been identified the eight indicted men were convicted by a court which held that the "inflammatory speeches and publications" of these eight incited the actions of the mob. The Illinois and U.S. Supreme Courts upheld the verdict.

On November 11, 1887 four of the accused were hanged. One committed suicide in jail, two had their sentences commuted to life in prison and one remained in prison even though there was no case against him.

After John P. Altgeld became Governor in 1893, the petitions for pardon that had been presented to and refused by his predecessor Richard Oglesby, were again introduced. After a careful review of the case Altgeld granted a full pardon on June 26, 1893. In his remarks he claimed the jury was selected to convict and the judge so prejudiced against the defendants that a fair trial was impossible.

Two Chicago area monuments were erected to commemorate the Haymarket Riot. One stands in German Waldheim Cemetery (Forest Park, IL). It depicts Justice preparing to draw a sword while placing a laurel wreath on the brow of a fallen worker. At the base of the monument are the final words August Spies spoke before his execution: "The day will come when our silence will be more powerful than the voices you are throttling today." The monument was dedicated on June 25, 1893, before a crowd of 8,000.

"In the name of the people I command peace" reads the inscription below the police officer depicted on the second monument. Since its dedication in 1889 peace has been somewhat elusive.

The monument was originally situated in the middle of Haymarket Square, where street car lines were forced to swerve around it. On May 24, 1890 an attempt was made to blow it up. In 1900 the monument was regarded as a traffic hazard and moved to Union Park at Randolph and Ogden Ave. On May 4, 1903 the city seal and state crest were stolen from its base. A disgruntled streetcar driver ran his vehicle into it, knocking it off its base on May 4, 1927, claiming he was tired of seeing it. On May 4, 1928, after repairs were completed, it was moved further into Union Park. The statue was again moved on May 4, 1958 and placed at Randolph St. at the Kennedy Expressway, 200 feet from its original location. The Chicago City Council granted the monument landmark status on May 4, 1965. In October, 1969 a dynamite bomb exploded at the feet of the figure damaging it from the calves down. In November black printers ink was tossed on it, doing further damage. Another bomb was exploded there in October 1970. After each incident the monument was restored, but after the 1970 incident Mayor Richard J. Daley placed a round-the-clock police guard at the site. When this proved too costly, the statue was moved to Police Headquarters at 11th and State Street in 1972. In October, 1976 the monument was again moved. It was rededicated at the Police Academy and can only be seen by making arrangements in advance. Peace.
http://www.chipublib.org/004chicago/disasters/haymarket...

:hi:
My Sister MountainLaurel

doing this in an organized fashion though

Somewhat off the track on this I realize, however I only recently became aware of the fact that the South, notably South Carolina voted to secede just three months (90 days!) after Lincoln was elected.

They were ready.

if it came to that. It would become anti-government partisan warfare. Since the Republicans control virtually every part of the government, armed opposition to the right would become armed opposition to the US itself. I think that this kind of situation would be liberal fighters waging guerrilla war against the US.

insurgents. I need to restate that point here. And also note the class war that underlies our society.

it would be looked upon as liberal (or terrorist) insurgency. Most "Proud Americans" do not know or care about the ideals which the American Revolution supposedly fought for. The vast majority of Americans are very reactionary and believe what the Bush administration tells them. Therefore, popular uprising is pretty much impossible.
The "class war" has little to do with this (in my opinion).

people shooting up recruitment offices, et cetera.

That way we can avoid the bloody kind. And, thus, my frustration for our "losses" in the general election.

One of my friends -- a Vietnam veteran who passed away a year ago -- was very conservative. By that he meant he believed in the Constitution of the United States and the sacrifices of previous generations to make America great. He also could see that many who called themselves "Conservative" weren't, including some crooked crazy moron name of George W Bush.

and using the system for accountability with integrity under the US Constitution.

I don't think that this will be an issue in the next three years, but tensions in the US seem to be slowly coming to a boil. Not only am I talking about the intense divide between the politics of average Americans, but also a simmering stew of general racism, sexism and contempt for the poor.
However, there are too many (questionable) defences in place to guard against it. Imo, as long as people are only interested in the law because of celebrities, it wont happen. As long as MSM keeps it's propoganda machine in place, it wont happen. As long as our children are to taught in grade and high school to accept everything they're told, it wont happen.
There are too few people that care and not enough that are willing to die for thier cause, whichever cause they have. These are not rules though, and I do believe it is extremely possible in the long run.
My concern for the next three years is more of an international concern. The world will be engaged in war before there is a civil war in the US.

I really wish it would start. I'm down. That's one good thing about the automatic weapons ban lift.

I know that the Bush administration has expected this ever since the invasion of IRaq. I think the Patriot Act and the Intelligence Bill are really meant to curb dissent here at home, not for terrorism. After all, they've got "Food for Bombs" and "A.N.S.W.E.R." on their terrorist watch list.

I live right near the Port of Los Angeles, the biggest port in the US and not much has changed. I sure don't see no 388 billion dollars at work. My whole neighborhood are long shoreman.

http://johntitor.com/JohnsWar.htm



In this proud land we grew up strong
We were wanted all along
I was taught to fight, taught to win
I never thought I could fail

No fight left or so it seems
I am a man whose dreams have all deserted
I’ve changed my face, I’ve changed my name
But no one wants you when you lose

Don’t give up
’cos you have friends
Don’t give up
You’re not beaten yet
Don’t give up
I know you can make it good

Though I saw it all around
Never thought I could be affected
Thought that we’d be the last to go
It is so strange the way things turn

Drove the night toward my home
The place that I was born, on the lakeside
As daylight broke, I saw the earth
The trees had burned down to the ground

Don’t give up
You still have us
Don’t give up
We don’t need much of anything
Don’t give up
’cause somewhere there’s a place
Where we belong

Rest your head
You worry too much
It’s going to be alright
When times get rough
You can fall back on us
Don’t give up
Please don’t give up

’got to walk out of here
I can’t take anymore
Going to stand on that bridge
Keep my eyes down below
Whatever may come
And whatever may go
That river’s flowing
That river’s flowing

Moved on to another town
Tried hard to settle down
For every job, so many men
So many men no-one needs

Don’t give up
’cause you have friends
Don’t give up
You’re not the only one
Don’t give up
No reason to be ashamed
Don’t give up
You still have us
Don’t give up now
We’re proud of who you are
Don’t give up
You know it’s never been easy
Don’t give up
’cause I believe there’s the a place
There’s a place where we belong

Peter Gabriel

they will shock and awe americans

who would stop them?

a big turn around in 06, we will make some gains in the senate (if we pick some good folks to run, which should have been done already). by the way, when do we get the new DNC chair.

Typically I think that there are better answers than a full-on war, but if it ever came to that because of RW control I think I'm prepared.