Tet Offensive; 4 months after "ELECTIONS" in Vietnam;

So we're looking at the Vietraq replay in about May. Right in time for bush's MISSION ACCOMPLISHED Anniversary.

Wouldn't that be ironic.

More so than they're doing now, that is.

Or do you know it to be true?

this is a patient and clever enemy.

Indeed, they will wait and strike when it can achieve two primary things, cause a lot of damage and much embarrassment to the trained chimp. May was when the simian did his fly-boy routine.

Julie

then they would ne peaceful.

Then after we withdrew and declared victory, they would take over the country.

They were in fact the most peaceful and progressive country in the ME. Women were treated as equals and could actually have a profession. They were a very educated country even if under the rule of a dictator like half the countries in the world are.

read my lips.

although your response may have been an attempt at humor, the potential for a civil war is a very real danger. In terms of the election, it may be that this is the cause of an increase in violence in parochial terms. As all sociologists who study the causes of such violence know, this type of violence does not occure from a systematic oppression; rather, when oppression has a brief let-up, which holds the promise of progress which is then denied, regions explode. Hence, when you look at the ethnic groups involved, it is in fact a very real possibility that the north could invade the central zone, or the south could begin hostilities in the northerly direction.

So the Kurds would seek to enlarge their "semi-autonomous zone?" But Turkey wouldn't like that at all.

that Iraq is on the "brink" of a civil war for well over a year now?

This is comparing apples to oranges.

North and South vietnam were temporary divions of the same country. The idea of South vietnam as a country was furthered by the US to legitimize its support for a puppet government.

Just like Iraq, some portions of the country are under US control some under rebel control and alot of it is just plain warzone.

They are different certainly, but in this case its very similar.

was not carried our by insurgents/terrorists/guerrillas/freedom fighters or whatever you want to call them. It was carried out by the ARVN. That's VERY different from what is occurring in Iraq.

The point here is that just 4 months after a similar election with a similar promising turnout, in another occupied country, the tet offensive happened.

Thus contrary to the republican argument, elections in the past have not, through sheer magic of thier democracy, helped the US improve its position in an occupation.

The fact that a replica of the tet offensive couldnt happen in Iraq is true of course, but not particlarly important to the point of this thread.

in Iraq unless there is a hidden regular Iraqi army we don't know about hiding out in Turkey or Iran.

You are right that things could still go to hell in a hand-basket in Iraq though, but it won't take the form of a Tet-like offensive.

The ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam) were the southern Vietnamese soldiers that we trained. The ARVN fought along side the American soldiers against the southern communists, the Viet Cong, and against the forces of the north during the Vietnam War. Some American soldiers say they were disorganized and unenthusiastic about winning the war, and I need to point out this this is exactly what is is happening in Iraq today. The ARVN = Iraq National guard.

I meant the North Vietnamese Regular Army; the NVA.

Got my armies mixed up!

Heard that on NPR this morning

Civil War on its way! Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it!

They should determine their own future without the neoconservatives' "help".

One may argue that modern Iraq is not a nation but a colonial construct. The borders weren't drawn by Iraqis, but by the British imperialists for their purposes. The British often ignored little things like ethnic differences among local populations. The natives were just pesky folk who had some fantastic ideas about controlling their own resources.

It is right to ask whether the Kurds would be better living in an independent Kurdistan or as part of a confederated Iraq. That is question which the Kurds and other Iraqis should answer, not Bush and his band of corporate-colonial pirates.

All that's left is a bunch of flippin' paperwork to make it official.

That's why Turkey's been so bent out of shape lately.

when the 'United Kurdistan' takes a big chunk of Turkey's land. I think the Kurds think of themselves as Kurds first, then Iraqi's or Turk's second.

I wonder how this will play with NATO. Be interesting if all Europe withdraws from NATO over Turkey, leaving the USA, England and Canada to stand alone in NATO. Hell, even Canada and England could withdraw from NATO and go with the United Europe.

Do those idiots in PNAC have any idea what they are doing? From the members list of PNAC, all I see are a bunch of idiot rejects from previous administrations.

Well, they got what they asked for, now they can sleep in the bed they have made for themselves. I wonder if Bu$h is gonna last 4 years. Too bad we will also suffer from their incompetence.

On edit: There IS justice in this world because Rice will take a big part of the responsibility over Europe telling the USA to kiss-off.

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