Pat Buchanan: Cindy may be the catalyst of crisis for the Bush presidency

hate it...hate it...

I said the very same thing!!!

This is an excellent article, BTW :D

"The purity of Sheehan's protest has lately been diluted by her association with the far Left, the extravagance of her language and the arrival of political operatives to manipulate and manage her."

News to me...

really, I'm disappointed in him for doing that, however, it's still a good article.

according to every CON that's commented.

It's so funny to listen to them talk about Cindy Sheehan. Every time, each and every one of them prefaces their remarks with 'She has suffered a terrible, terrible, loss and given the greatest sacrifice' with feigned sympathetic expression. The next words are, "far left!...Moveon.org!...Michael Moore!"

Now, why oh why oh why weren't the groups holding vigil supporting the Schindlers called "far right"?

older lady, I have no clue about her politics.

She asked if that poor lady was still in TX, waiting for the President to talk to her. I said yes. She said, "you'd think he could just take 5 minutes and talk to her". This in a disgusted and sad tone.

It's way beyond left or right or politics. She's hit a nerve.

Anyone. Even the president.

Cindy has found his Achilles' heel, and it is that he can't back down.

Bush is really showing his true character to the American public and the world. Why is Bush afraid of one woman?

By associating her with the far left, they are polishing the image of the far left. "Oh, the left, they're the ones who don't attack bereaved Moms, right?"

They can try to smear her, but all they do is get caca on their hands.

Start throwing around the words PNAC, NeoCon, Israel, Palestine, LIHOP... and the right wing will neutralize her message.

Oh, and all you freaking radicals that decided to show up at the Tonkawa rally and try to sell your paranoid schizophrenic newspapers, or pass out Communist rallying points...

GO HOME!

As we light candles tonight, let the sliding bar betweent he left and the right, unite us!

The leftover cross stompers and warmongers can crawl back into their "SPIDER HOLES" and eat worms!

he's met the far left on the other side. Perhaps they should go bowling, if they ever turned around to face each other.

Whe you build up a hero-worshipping mythology around a cult of personality, the truth can be harsh. Many people here have that attitude towards Cindy.

But Buchanan is right. Whe you are a public figure, you do have to be careful who you associate with.

Cindy is attracting attention. Its inevitable that some of the people who are rushing to "join" her or "Help" here really have their own agenda, and are just going to horn in on the glory and promote their cause.

Appearing with pro-palestinian activists and communists (if that ais true, I don't know) will hurt her public perception.

You can't blame Buchanan for pointint that out.

is the important part, and he doesn't back it up with anything.

Their boy Bush is tumbling down hill fast, their house of cards is about to crash down on their heads, and they know it. They're getting desparate - fuck 'em.

Went to the peace house and ate lunch, which was all middle eastern food.

Now, I love middle eastern food, I have nothing against it.

But if I was having a picnic in the hope of convincing the average american that this war is wrong and that there's nothing wrong or unamerican with opposing it and its time to start questioning Bush etc. etc., I would not serve falafel and baba ganoush. I would serve hamburgers and hot dogs.

Its a small thing, but its very real. Its just the reality of public relations, Cindy can do good as the face of an all-american mother whose son has been killed and who is against the war. Thats a nice simple message. But she will not look so good if she becomes the pawn of others with other interests, like palestinian liberation.

There is no need to muddy the picture with the mess of the Israel-palestine issue. Its such an intractible issue it turns into a shitstorm every time it is raised, even among DUers. That issue just shouldn't even be anywhere near Cinday Sheehan, and its gonna be a mess if she drags in any other stuff like that.

Its simple, mom, dead son, stop war. Anything else will seriously detract. The usual career anti-war activists, the greens and communists and wobblies, if they get involved, it destroys her, it destroys her appeal and her credibility. The greens and wobblies and commies are already anti-war and have been yelling for years, noone listens. People started to listen to Cindy because she wasn't one of them because she was just a mom. If she lets them get involved, people will stop listening to her.

and AFAIK she isn't pushing any other agenda besides her own (if she were to do that, it would destroy her mission).

By insisting on hamburgers and hot dogs, you are making an issue out of it--that is just as silly as serving falafel to make a point. The significance of anything else should be ignored. Period.

I find it charming that middle eastern food is being served.

With a capital P!

That's so gay! :silly:

:hi:

:9

I'm sorry that your post has been followed by a number either dismissing offhand or making fun of your comments. That doesn't change the truth in what you're saying, however.

A "counter barbecue" at the Peace House, maybe just once, to counter Bush's fundraiser might have been nice and made a point easily understood by all.

The meals served at the Peace House were all absolutely delicious (I was there over the weekend) but had I brought my neighbors (many of whom wholly support our efforts) I doubt they would have found anything they would have eaten. So instead of embarrassing themselves by asking what that food was, they probably would just have done without or driven into town for a burger.

Perceptions ARE important, folks. Dismissing people because they have "common tastes" is demeaning and arrogant.

Now I'm off to pick some greens for tonight's supper, which will go great with some home made cornbread.

So much feigned concern over nothing.

Give us all a break, please.

I wonder if they are wearing the right jeans and underware, too.

Cindy Sheehan has accepted the help and support of allies more experienced and media savvy than herself. Therefore she is a puppet of "left wing bomb throwers". Pure O'Reallyan spin, who are these dipshits to say who she might associate with? Instead of spreading Rovian memes we should be stomping them into the ground.

attempting to distract from the real issue at hand. Let's not help them.

Look at al the great fawning media coverage she gets for herself. Look how many red state swing voters she has swayed. Look hard, very very hard, you might find one.

quilt by association? These people showed up on their own, not at her request. She has no idea who some of these people are, but they're tying themselves to her star for now, until she's no longer of any use to them of course.
Someone should be looking out for her associations at Camp Casey. There WILL BE an unmistakable presence of undesirables that show up, some with the sole intention of diminishing her credence. You can take that to the bank. I only hope her message isn't blurred by her acceptance of everyone that seems honest and helpful. It's a shame that we cannot take people for what they appear to be, but I know too much about the world and politics to accept some of these people at face value.
Someone in Crawford, keep an eye out for people "too" willing to help out. Separate the wheat from the chaff, PLEASE?

I was thinking more of the known quantities such as Michael Moore, whose name O'Really does his best to include in any sentence with Cindy's. Quite right though, cheapjack hustlers abound and agent provocateurs are surely possibilities.

they need only say: Well Cindy needs all the help she can get, and since you (Hannity, O'really, whoever) are so obviously against the grieving mother of a dead war hero, she has to accept the help she is offered.

Shame them into admitting they are against her, or make them support her.

Im betting you that Anne Wright is doing her best to look out for Cindy along with with the others associated with IVAW, MFSO, GSFP.

just plain silly and not worthy of discusion.

WHO shows up to "be associated with her" IS a valid and important consideration.

Have some middle eastern food, BBQ, Hot dogs, hamburgers.

and the Peace House serves vegan/vegetarian food - like falafel and baba ganoush. I'm sure they've served tofu dogs and bean burgers, too. Does that mean they should serve them everyday? Not a whole lot of options, but hardly the point. If I had to live my political life considering every minute detail (outside of the issues), particularly in an attempt to appeal to ignorance and intolerance - I'd run far and fast from ever getting involved. This is ridiculous. I think they have larger fish (or something non-meat that resembles fish) to fry. Arguments like this ... and we continue to ask why we're always tripping over ourselves? Hmmm ... I wonder ...

I'm not really the slightest bit interested in what they eat, although it might make a fine right wing talking point for those with small minds, or those who still listen to the rw talking points.

I hear bushit eats a lot of tex mex type food. If what they eat is all they can be attacked on, they're doing pretty good, I'd say. I doubt that Cindy prepares the menus, and my guess is that what they eat is the last thing on her mind. I'm just happy food is provided.

Let's scrutinize what the emperor eats at his fundraisers, or when he's home on the ranch for hidden meaning while we're at it....

1) Agree with Pat Buchanan, and
2) Try to tell us "be careful what we say and who we allow to associated with us" - in other words, to "sit down and shut up".

Very interesting.

2006 elections will bring more flipping repugs when they see just how unpopular this chimp has become.

It's like when Santorum was on the "Daily Show." We all know he's a rightwing weird-o but he tried to come off as a moderate (I don't know if it worked though, not with me anyways). I think Allen was the first Senator to publicially in the media say Bush should meet with Cindy. I think though that if the republicans want to be re-elected in 2006 they have to stay mute on the Cindy issue.

This isnt political.. its not left, its not dems.. its a mother looking for answers. An American mother who lost her son in a war waged for who really knows why, camped out in a ditch in crawford TX.


Personally, Id rather see everyone not associated with military families pack their banners and paraphernalia up and just support Cindy logistically.

:eyes: Why is it they can't take the truth that a woman is an independent thinker and not being told what to say by anybody? These statements really get on my nerves!

and do, everytime I see it. It pisses me off - it's like they're trying to excuse her behavior because she's just a silly woman being told what to say by the left wing extremists, and doesn't know any better. I'm a little confused though, because, according to Sean Hannity, I'M a left wing extremist, so Cindy must be, too. So, what do we have here? A left wing extremist being told what to say by other left wing extremists? Do only the male "left wing extremists" count? It boggles the mind...

It might make a small faction of the right wing feel better, but, really I don't think anyone else believes it. Cindy Sheehan is far too articulate and intelligent, and anyone who hears her speak knows better.

BUT, she has no idea who some of these people are or what THEIR agendas are. She must distance herself from the people that are there to only serve themselves. To believe that there are not people like that at Camp Casey or trying to get to Camp Casey would be naive. I hope someone who is more politically savvy is giving her some guidance in that direction. She's an articulate and intelligent woman, of that there's no doubt. But when it comes to cut-throat politics, there are others more in tune.

Anyone who doesnt like Bush is fab, arent they?

:sarcasm:

I agree Cindy should beware of some of the people at Camp Casey however being to cautious may lead paranoia and fear. Cindy seems to be very intuitive so I don't think we have much to worry about. IMO

to know that he did, in fact, read the last set of RW talking points. That's one of the recent ones being trotted out by the Mehlmans and the Limbaughs of the RW echo chamber.

should pay the consequences for leading us into a stupid war and he does not want the democrats to gain any support for seeing that it was a stupid war. I think this is another version of let them eat cake.

And a paleoconservative.

but neanderthal on social issues.

Pat Buchanan may be a conservative but he's not a NEOconservative. Big difference.

There is nothing conservative about neocons. They grabbed the radical right, pushed them about 90° FARTHER right and kept the handle.

That pulled the whole GOP right, so on average, nowadays, Democrats are more conservative than Republicans.

He's taking a big dig at us folks. The rank and file democrats are not divided we were against the war from the beginning and ANGRY that our reps voted to support. Democratic leaders have offered suggestion after suggestion and have been ignored and rebuked constantly.
Pat, there is nothing to take advantage of here. Iraq is a train wreck in slow motion. Our best option is to compromise a deal with the UN to augment and then replace US forces immediately. Shut down all bases that are or appear to be permanent.

I am thrilled with the response and press about a real patriot- Cindy!

" This summer I hear the drumming, Four dead in Ohio. "

The desendents of who? (Prescott Bush?)

"Theirs is an important issue, but they need to move.
We are a strong, German family community.
We'll weather this. We're not saying stop; we're saying move."

Deborah Mathews reporting at the courthouse in Waco.

http://198.65.14.85/News/2005/31-40/33news11.htm

Issue one - Nixon didn't break anyone but himself. He broke his own Presidency with his Watergate cover up. Issue two - I'll tell you what could break the impasse - your boy Bush could get some balls, and actually go talk to these folks, maybe show some empathy. Fat chance.

I think the point Buchanan was trying to make was that Nixon was already in trouble regarding Vietnam in 1969 and managed to stave that off and last until another election. If the crisis had escalated in 1969, he might have been ousted by his own party and denied a chance to even run in '72.

in much trouble at home about his policiy in Vietnam in 1969. What Buchanan is saying is that Nixon strong-armed the anti-war movement with his "silent majority" speech. It was a temporary fix, of course. But his point is that Bush can't pull it out of the hat now.

I know a way to break it without * having to talk to her and I'm suspicious why rove hasn't done it yet. I won't publicize it here, just in case they haven't thought of it yet.

May their arrogance and avarice bring them* all down.

How about the fact that an idiot got us into an unwinable situation, had to plans to win the war in the first place, and still has no plan to stop terrorism.

What a bunch of jerks we have in this country. We go to war on lies but we can't get out because we'll look bad. We have to win a war we shouldn't have even started. Meanwhile it's costing thousands of lives and billions of dollars. Why are the taxpayers footing the bill? * wanted it, he got it, let him and the repubs do the fighting and pay the bills.

"the media are using her, for the same end: to bedevil George W. Bush"

Yeah the media has always set out to "bedevil" Bush. In my dreams.

Uh, kind of like the Republicans used the media to bedevil Bill Clinton? What goes around comes around, Mr. Pat. Suck it up.

I posted a link here:

8/16 All DU Cindy threads DAY 11
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4376753

can the Iraqis the U.S. Army is training defeat an enemy the U.S. Army has itself been unable to defeat in two years?"

that's a no brainer, Pat me lad - they can't, they won't. Cut our losses and get out of there.

That's partially why I chose my username from one his quotes.

on social issues he's a bit of a cave man.

:D

effective it would be. So, how do you want that crow?

come from the far left, the left, the center, and the right. I know, I've seen it in my community.

It is especially coming from those in the center who are fairly oblivious to the politics going on in the war and just don't get why Bush can't console this mother, for the photo-op if nothing else.

No one is ever wrong anymore, and if they are it doesn't matter because they are a member of the teflon-coated * administration.

:(

:P

DOUCHEBAG, Bob Novak. The GOPers have turned on Bob and thrown that baby out with the douche-water. Pat sees the writing on the wall, but he's just too stupid to be able to read that writing. Some of the Rabid pubs are starting to have second thoughts about saint shrub's holy horseshit.

My grandma always told me, that I made my own bed and that I'd have to sleep in it. All the power-douching in the world won't wash the guilt off of the Bushco enabler's dirty hands! I'll bet they wish they could shred their guilt. like Kenny Boy shredded the Enron ledgers.

Bob you get the douche-bag of the day award! Yesterday's winner was that guy Larry in Texas. I heard Larry was a distant cousin of Karl Rove but I haven't found the link yet. Just saw the story on a couple of emails from a fairly reliable source, who said they wanted their identity kept secret for now.

I am hating him lately. He is using republican talking points saying people are taking over Cindy's agenda, he is misquoting Cindy, and saying she doesn't express herself well. He says just because he is on the left, and against the war he can still disagree with the way Cindy is going about doing this. I really get pissed by talk show people who don't research the facts. The war would barely be in the news if it wasn't for Cindy. Yea for Randy and Big Eddie who are really behind Cindy. I only have a number for Sirius customer service. Does anyone have a programing number?

besides a lot of stinking hot air and a lot of nasty shit! I don't know how they keep the blow-flies off of assholes like that, long enough to do a TV show! They must do it with make-up.

Georgie made a huge mistake ignoring Cindy. Look at all the polls! :) Imagine her place in the history books! Cindy Sheehan brought down George W. Bush. Ooo wouldn't it be great! And around Labor day!

What is remarkable is that no Democrat has stepped forward, as Gene McCarthy did, to lead an anti-war crusade and call for a date certain for withdrawal of U.S. troops. Cindy Sheehan is filling that vacuum.

Where is the Democratic "leadership"?

among major Democrats. Kerry has rightfully been a target on this central issue, met with flaming, bitter, deluded opposition when the matter of his lukewarm, limpwristed semi-opposition, shading to out-and-out support, is raised (and the locking of threads and the deleting of posts). Dean has a big problem, too with regard to ending the war as does most of the Democratic party inner circle. Too bad, that will cost us if they don't change course.

This seems to be the one thing they haven't caved or waffled on war-wise: remaining silent or calling for more troops.

Near the very bottom...

"Pat Buchanan's newest book, "Where the Right Went Wrong," tells how neocons are leading conservatives and America to disaster ... and what we must do now to save our country and our cause."


Up is down.

:crazy:

Another terrorist attack (ie. LIHOP or MIHOP) that will be blamed on Iran.

eom

:kick:

You have to just love it when one woman can put the Shrub supporters in such a tizzy. Everyone is so proud of Cindy and what she stands for, no matter what the rightwingbats say. Cindy has out smarted the leader of the free world, she challenged him and he is hiding on his ranch peeking out the window wondering when she will leave. She will leave when the mission is accomplished Shrub. :woohoo:

...of his politics, I've always respected Buchanan's intelligence, wit and humor. He's one of those conservatives I, for whatever reason, happen to like. Maybe the reason is that he does, on occasion, come up with the clear headed, dead on, reality based commentary he offers here.

:rofl: Fuck you Bushler! :D

Michael Moore, move over, heressssssssssss PAt!!!

:rofl:

She has turned Bush into a prisoner in his own house. Reminds me of LBJ.

Don

"September could see the coalescing of an anti-war movement that both bedevils the White House and divides a Democratic Party that seeks to benefit from a losing war, without having to offer a plan to win it or end it, without being held accountable for having supported it, or responsible for undercutting it."

I am so angry about this war that EVERY SINGLE PERSON REGARDLESS OF PARTY needs to be sent packing at election time. If a buncha hicks like us can see that this war and its 'rationale' was shit, so could the people in office. They didn't vote for the war resolution because they believed in the propaganda that led to it. They voted for it because they were cowards who were buffaloed into it by *'s poll numbers and the tension in the country. They voted their own personal careerist interests first and now people are dead because of it.

Listening to Seymour Hersh on the daily show last night, telling how sources in the government say that the insurgency is holding back to do a 'Tet Offensive' and lay waste to our army made it impossible for me to sleep last night. I dread the anniversary of September 11.

All of them, kerry and all of them, have blood on their hands and I'm NOT IN A FORGIVING MOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is what Casey Sheehan died for, a neocon mistake. Bush does not admit to making mistakes. Cindy is being vilified for pointing out Bushco's mistake.

Very simple. She need only point out the facts to the fabulists in the administration.

Cindy is a 'whistleblower' ... the Right wingers can only shoot the messenger !

Wow, I'm glad I'm not down there!

but go pat go! (just this once)

...when there are moments when people like Arlen Specter and Pat Buchanan seem compassionate and reasonable to me!

Peace...

while he was in the Nixon WH. It's got to be deja vu for Buchanan.

I know exactly what would break this cycle, and it's NOT having Chimp meet with Cindy.

The only thing that would break the cycle would be another horrible terrorist event, another 9/11 type attack. It wouldn't have to be on American soil, just involve scores of innocent Americans. Then (at least according to the likely game plan of this administration) we will all go back into "rally-'round-the-flag" mode, shower the pResident with adoration and support, and buy more pro-American/pro-troops/pro-President bumper stickers. Everyone would give up even more civil liberties in the fight against terror, Congress will pass Patriot Act III, IV and V, and soon we'll all be saying, "Cindy Who?"

I don't know that anything like this would happen. I'm not sure that, if it did, America's reaction would be at all like it was after 9/11; in fact, instead of rallying behind President Dipshit, America might just blame him for lying about making us less safe. It might not happen, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see them try. Nothing like a well-timed orange-alert to distract the kool-aide addicts from serious issues.

And btw, WE indeed "broke" NIXON - the first repuke criminal to occupy OUR White House - he did not "break" us - the american people were solidly behind US who opposed that repuke and supported the rule of law.

We will "break" this WAR CRIMINAL, too.