I object to the cheap Schwarzenegger attacks.

Classic_liberal (I think that's his username) agrees with me. These personal attacks against Schwarzenegger are no better than those used against Bill Clinton and Robert Byrd.

Some people here also make fun of Arnold Schwarzenegger's accent. This is extremely insulting to anyone who has a foreign accent, including myself.

Now you see on TV Arnold looks like a martyr who is "the victim" of a "smear campaign."

That's really smart. Way to go, guys. Instead of attacking his extremely anti-union rhetoric and pandering to corporations, you're playing right into his hands.

We can sit back and let them slime us, or we can fight fire with fire.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/scripty/66604.html

I'm thinking that Ahnold's problem is how he uses his power to humiliate and demean people.

Mostly it has happened to women, but check this out:

"But confidence can cut a lot of different ways, and Schwarzenegger’s can manifest itself cruelly. During the filming of “Terminator 2,” Schwarzenegger had a dresser who, it was generally conceded, had not been hired for his looks. Often, in front of the whole crew, Arnold would order the man, “Sit, you ugly dog,” and the man would drop to his knees like a trained dog. Crew members would laugh, perhaps nervously, but no one spoke up in protest. The man was finally put out of his misery when a producer witnessed the spectacle” and fired the man rather than allow him to continue to be abused by Schwarzenegger. "

He has also used his power to keep people from talking.

This man is not fit to lead anybody.

?

papers say.
I agree with focusing on what is the most egregious point: his link to Enron and the Repug machine.

The other stuff is repugnant and perhaps criminal (following the repug name) and should be even more reason to dislike him and perhaps sue him. But it is a little late in the process to keep on hammering on this.

WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS HIS LINKS WITH THE FORCES THAT ARE DESTROYING THIS COUNTRY.

But focusing on "womanizing" which isn't a big deal in the first place makes it seem like there's no legitimate argument against him! It makes it seem as though we can't find anything more cogent.

but the timing looks politically motivated.

It was published in 2001 and detail most of the allegations that are being reported. Women's groups have known about him forever, the mainstream media just recently decided to pay attention. They tend to be a little slow on the uptake when it comes to women's issues.

look if they have a case they should persue it, but if the cases are dropped like that one obviously was, unless he campaigns it looks politically motivated. Sorry. I think the first person responding to this is the most truthful. It is revenge. It ain't my thing, but you do what you gotta do.

It was not just one case. It is a consistent pattern of behavior that has continued for three decades. He is a man in power abusing his female subordinates. They are in fear of losing their jobs or being blacklisted if they report him. I honestly don't give a shit if it's politically motivated or not, it should be exposed.

Why didn't any of them press charges?

They did not press charges because they were afraid of reprisals. Arnold is one of the most powerful and rich stars in Hollywood. They worked in crew positions such as make-up, costume, lighting, etc., where their getting hired is subject to the whims of producers, directors and stars. If they were to file a complaint against him, do you think they'd ever work again. The women who allowed their names to be used were either out of the business, or in the case of the British television host, just didn't give a shit.

Also, do you know how much it would cost for them to file a civil suit that they would most likely lose because Arnold is so disgustingly rich that he would afford the best justice money can buy? Add that to the fact that they'd never work in their chosen field again and you've got a pretty strong deterrent to reporting him.

Most of the women did tell friends, family, their bosses, etc., immediately and both Premiere and the LA Times verified those. In some cases there were witnesses. You're right, just because they wrote an article doesn't make it true. However, given the fact that Arnold didn't sue them and cannot deny the allegations pretty much convinces me that both articles are truthful.

If they could face reprisals then, what has changed? I hope the recall goes down, but if it does I think it will be despite these last minute allegations.

Because you have the nerve to use the word "Liberal" in your screenname, that's why! If your attitude is so poor regarding a situation like this that is very important to women, than it's important for me to try and show you why I believe you are wrong.

. Prove that I do. Innocent until proven guilty is a liberal value as well.

It's an American value. Believe it or not, I have a lot of conservative friends who believe that as well. Feel free to claim it as a liberal value, but it's neither liberal nor conservative.

But you see, Arnold has admitted his guilt. And his guilt has been proven time and time again, not in a court of law, but by eyewitnesses and victims. Why don't you care about this?

not sexual harrassment. Why don't you go yell at someone who is undecided. I'll bet they will be really convinced.

Boy, you really must have a thin skin. Arnold admitted to doing the things he is accused of. He appears to have no understanding that what he did was wrong. I find that even more disturbing than you calling the incidents merely "behaving badly".

As you wish. I will no longer try to convince you that what a muscle headed moron calls behaving badly is in reality, sexual harrassment. But just for the record, grabbing a woman's breast, squeezing and asking if it's real is more than behaving badly. Putting your hand up your producer's assistant (whom you've never met before) and stroking her ass is not just behaving badly. I could go on, but since you've already stated that you don't want to hear it, I'll move on to more intelligent discourse.

and you think I wouldn't perceive that as yelling. Too bad.

Please try your call again later.

This has gotta be the umpteenth time you have used the term nit-picking or picking nits or even pit-nicking in your screeds. I am now calling you on it.

Don't they? :evilgrin:

all liberals and Democrats. The pattern of sexual misbehavior is bad enough by itself; but it is also an indicator of how one would govern and how one would treat all women, how he would enforce laws against sex crimes and respond to workplace discrimination complaints.

I haven't seen one person here trivialize concerns about Arnold's connections with big business or how he would interact with unions. However, so far I have seen nothing other than traditional Republican values on those points, which most of us here reject, so what more do you want said? Do you have evidence of illegal conduct on these points? If not, the question before Californians is whether they agree with those values.

many of those women have since left the entertainment industry. They probably were fine keeping it to themselves, but I imagine that they have been asked (by CodePink, LA Times, MoveOn, etc.) to go on record for the sake of "keeping California safe from Arnold."

I just hope they weren't pressured or paid off by the DNC.

same argument the other day? Why do you insist on defending him?

I'm always late to the party! I'm going to have to spend less time looking for a job and more time convincing men that sticking their hands up a gal's skirt is actually sexual harrassment.

Sigh.......

It was a humor magazine that was popular in the early ninties, I think. I used to subscribe and they always made fun of Arnold and related stories about him being a perv. I remember one where they said that there was some kind of party where there were strippers and they actually said Arnold playfully tried to "mount" one of the girls. That was the word they used! Ick!

voters at this late point, you have to emphasize how his actions are impacting THEIR POCKETBOOKS.
It is a sad statement in society when a criminal act such as groping an unwilling person (I don't want to say female, even though there were female in Arnold's cases) is NOT STOPPING PEOPLE FROM VOTING FOR HIM.
BUT POCKETBOOKS ARE ANOTHER STORY. THE ENRON LINK STORY: HAS IMPACTED EVERY CALIFORNIAN WITH THE PRICE OF ENERGY AND QUALITY OF LIFE.

.

an explanation for the timing.

is what Arnold practices!!!

it's a history of assault. These women actively rejected him, in most instances.

The Enron thing is the worst, granted. But sexual assault IS A DAMN BIG DEAL, and don't you forget it.

Womanizing is what Bill Clinton did. What AS is doing is a crime and an insult.

by three women.

They were all investigated, as they should have been. Democrat, Republican, Green, whatever; if there is an allegation of assault or harrassment, it should be taken seriously.

how can there be one? The timing looks bad. Sorry.

wasn't covering the new sleeze (they didn't mention it) but that the main newspapers were having to do work they hadn't done before and why. Heard it last night on the commute home. It made sense.

Arnold was accused of statuary rape would the timimg still be bad ?
Also it could hardly be said that Arnold's sexual assaults were mere 'romaticizing' as some apologist described.

Explain to them that tabloid-attacks are idiotic.

Please, feel free to explain to me why verified information about Arnold's sexual harrassment of his employees is a "tabloid-attack".

You know what I think is idiotic? This entire thread. You were offended because someone here made fun of his accent? Hell, he does it himself! Does that mean that nobody can call him on all the numerous faults he has because one person made a cheap shot? If so, then I think perhaps politics is not your game. You seem far to thin skinned for the fight.

The media has adopted Tabloid values and everyone knows it.

Are you saying they're any different or are you trying to imply that all newspapers are tabloids? If so, why do you bother to read them at all?

.

I made my thoughts on the matter clear yesterday. I sent the Palast article to my press contacts today. Beyond that it's all you can do. They are making their beds.

Let's bring up Bill Clinton. :eyes:

You know he's responsible for everything, one way or another. Looks like the Clinton obsession hits both sides of the coin these days. :-)

Did he rape anyone?

Only rape matters?

He's a pig who has no respect for women.

Wasn't it?

allegations weren't true. Arnold admitted the allegations against him are true. So WTF is your problem, besides the fact that are a libertarian in favor of the recall?

The allegations against Clinton were taken seriously and investigated. On the other hand, the allegations against Arnold are being chalked up to "playfullness" and "indescretions in my youth". Entirely different situations.

be not proved, or unfounded. Very different.

Do you or do you not believe the allegations? If not, why?

Why does it matter to you so much that we not attack Arnold?

Do you think serial sexual harrassment of employees is "silly" as Former Republican does?

Sometimes the simple ones are the hardest to answer.

It matters to me that we not do a Bill Clinton on Arnold, because I remember what happened to Bill Clinton and it was the most miserable political period in my recollection. It diverted Bill from accomplishing anything important and from taking on the repukes. I don't think sexual harrassment is silly, but I made that clear already. You don't care about listening. You only read what you want to read.

And since you don't know me, how can you possible know what I care about?

As for reading, I read almost everything I can get my hands on, including your posts. Given the reactions you've gotten from the women on this board, do you see how you're posts are coming off? Don't imply that it's my fault you're coming off as indifferent to women's issues. You did that all by yourself with your own words.

As for doing a "Bill Clinton" on Arnold, have you noticed that Arnold acknowledged his behavior? How can we possible do a Clinton on him when he's admitted that the allegations are true? Do you see the difference or are you blind?

It is pretty clear, from when I said that Groping was a big deal in the title of one of my posts, that I don't minimize. I just think the timing is suspicious. so you assume my attitudes are minimizing women. I am a women. So the little beef about me being a sexist male is pretty silly of you and demonstrates that you are projecting, when you insist I am making assumptions about you.

I didn't call you a sexist and I'm not projecting anything on to you. You make me (and others here) suspicious of your motives because you keep insisting that the charges against Arnold aren't proven. Isn't it enough that he has admitted it? You seem overly concerned with believing in his innocence when he himself has already said that he did the things he was accused of.

allegations. He specifically said the reports were untrue.

And then he said it was true. Since I actually saw and heard his speech, it seemed clear to me and everyone there that he was admitting his behavior. Feel free to think he's just a bad behaving muscle head. It no longer matters to me what you think, I suspect you have issues about this sort of topic, since you so perseverated on the Bill Clinton allegations.

been filed. He also specifically said the reports weren't true. So it is your impression.

Please check your number and try your call again later.

He said something like he had done some foolish things when he was younger but that is all he would say about it and the media never pursued it...

You called it "womanizing." There is a huge difference.

Why are you CONSISTENTLY defending Schwarzenegger in the groping allegations?

I agree that we should be attacking the Ken Lay connection, but to dismiss the groping allegations makes me wonder about your Liberal ideals. To excuse this behavior is very un-progressive.

and the tabloids refused to pursue them because Arnie was tied to their businesses. If you remember, Arnie decided to not run for Governor for the last election when these rumors surfaced. Then, he tried to back Davis into a corner by saying he does too much negative ads. So Arnie hoped to slip under the radar in a shortened election where these allegations wouldn't be aired. All this time many activists have been writing letters asking the media to investigate these claims. Finally the LA Times did independent investigative reporting and found 6, initially, women who had told others around them of Arnies groping much before he decided to run. I think the timing tells more about the sarry state of American media than anything else. And this is politics, your character and actions do matter especially when you have no policy plans, refuse to answer questions, and are just running on your image. Finding the man behind the image is what the media are supposed to do.

I don't know if you have followed this closely, but several more women have come forward. I believe the LATimes now have 11 women and only 4 are still anonymous. Did you read the account where him and his bodybuilding buds told a high school girl he was going to rape her. That matters to me.

for an intelligent post. I'm new to DU so I'm not sure why we are arguing about this. I feel like I'm back on one of the old conservative message boards that used to frustate the hell out of me!

In the elevator and would stalk her by jumping into the elevator when she got in! Then he uses his strength to take off her bathing suit. How would you like it if ShortsAreBigger did that to your wife or daughter? Is it a big deal then? As in Assault, as in Rape?

their breasts, making sexist comments "womanizing"??

Sticking your hand up a female stranger's dress and "fondling" them is sexual battery and you can recieve a prison term for that.

Having sex with a 14 year old girl - which he did is "statuatory rape" and could also result in a prison sentence.

*

I give you a line from Adlai Stevenson:

"If they will stop telling lies about Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."

Arnold's history of sexual harassment is relevant. It goes directly to the issue of character. We're not talking about consensual acts here. And as far as I know, the opposition has not attacked him for his accent. That people here are mocking him has nothing to do with anything.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

oranges. Arnold's hostility towards labor is very relevant, buy it doesn't negate his history of serial groping. I'm a woman. I've been sexually harassed, both physically and verbally. It's extraordinarily offensive, particularly if the offender is in a position of power. And I'm no shrinking violet. Yes, it's a BIG deal.

You think a man in a position of power consistantly putting his hands on women who are in his employ and that he has power over is "silly"? You are obviously not a woman, because if you were, you would realize how important and non-silly this is for the 52% of the population who have had to deal with shit like this for most of their lives.

Yeah let some MAN have to deal with this shit most if not all of their stupid life! It sickens me to think that this Nazi pig has gotten away with this for so long.

Just wait ... they are probably hundreds of other women out there that have been sexually abused and humilitated by this pile of shyte of a "person" or whatever the hell the big ugly Nazi pig really is. Is he even real or did all of those steroids change his DNA or something.

He will never find sympathy from me and these recent stories that have appeared are just the beginning of a very ugly end for the PIG Schwartzenazi!

Ahhhnuuullllllllddddddddddd ......... go look for a job as a porn star or something!!

:nuke:

have a lot more educating of yourself to do before you really qualify for the "former" in your name.

dismissal of unwanted attention , forced and unwanted, groping and touching breasts ,which are the bases of the charges against Schwartzenegger are rather easily dismissed by you as silly. Have you a daughter? Have you a sister? Have you a wife? Would you just as easily dismiss such actions if they were committed on your family?

Womens rights are not just of concern to women, attitudes like yours need attention and adjustment.

I'm taking my ball AND going home right AFTER I share one of my new personal Ahnuld favorites>>>>>>>>>>>>

http://www.fauxnewschannel.com/arnie.htm

:evilgrin:

if he said and did as claimed? If the 'liberal' media would do it's job and Xpose steroid boy's lack of platform, ideas + corporate, rove/WH handling & money - the rest would B icing on the beefcake.

down in the trenches where the fighting is done. You don't say that the stories are untrue, just maybe a little too messy for your dainty tastes.

IMHO, it will be a wash. The few that vote against him because of it will be balanced by those who think he is a victim of a "smear campaign".

One of the local channels (SF Bay) said that the groping flap has had no discernable effect on the latest polls. I don't know if they were bullshit internal partisan polls or not.

This is not a pocketbook issue, and I think people are sick of hearing about "sex scandals". They just tune it out now.

Have you ever been polled?

When they are so consistent. They all show Davis being recalled and Arnold with a big lead. Prove this is not the case.

But I do not consider women coming forward and telling the truth (his behavior was documented before he ever decided to run for office by Premiere magazine in 2001) about his serial harrassement is not making him look like a victim.

My only problem is that this hasn't come to light before now. Hell, women's groups should have been screaming this to the rafters the very moment he declared his candidacy. I know I have, but perhaps I have a longer memory for the articles I read than most. Either way, I could give a shit if he portrays himself as the victim. The women are telling the truth, have verifiable witnesses, and he should be called to account for his behavior, especially if he thinks he can effectively represent women's rights (as he's been claiming).

It's very bush (pun intended) league to make fun of someone who can speak at least two languages well, when most of us can barely speak one--well, maybe I should just speak for myself.

But I do NOT believe that it is wrong nor is it "personal" to raise legitimate, job-related, fact-based questions about how a candidate views people who are in categories that are not his own, namely women in this case, who studies consistently show still face substantial societal discrimination. If there were allegations that Arnold had a history, including recent events, of behaving equally badly toward African Americans, how much confidence would you have that he would treat them fairly once in office? That is a job-relevant consideration.

It is a very well practiced tactic of Rethugs to "spin" words in order to deflect legitimate questioning, and attack the accuser, rather than to respond with facts and evidence showing that the accuser is wrong. (It's the same thing when Bill O'Reilly claims that Franken is "deranged" or "unstable." ) Until Arnold is able to show that the accusations are unfounded, then further attacks on accusers just compounds the problem. If the voters are unable to see the difference between a fact-based response, and an attempt to squelch legitimate questions, then they who support him deserve the candidate they vote in. But I would feel sorry for those who do not.

He's a pig who's being outed for being a Pig. Oh go on and play sweet with Arnie and get a couple of years of Arnie and his cronies fucking over the State of CA. The day's of Dem's being candy asses are over... If Repukes and former er..repukes don't like it...TOUGH SHIT!

I don't want Bush to win in '04 anymore than you do, nor do I want Schwarzenegger to win; but if the "arnold is a womanizing nazi" rhetoric being thrown 3 days before the election doesn't sound like trashy then I dont know what does.

Doesn't make it any less true.

"But focusing on "womanizing" which isn't a big deal in the first place makes it seem like there's no legitimate argument against him! It makes it seem as though we can't find anything more cogent."

Not a word about it until post number 3. That seems to me we didn't take your bait till you threw it in our mouths; nice job, DUers!

it seems you are going to have to prove yourself. I'm not convinced you don't belong here, but you seem rather ignorant when it comes to issues relating to women.

Equating "womanizing" with sexual assault is so ignorant and "ole boy network" it's almost laughable.

I said ALMOST.

Edit: Did you expect us to welcome you with open arms?

"Oh, good gracious, Former Republican has come to shine his light of wisdom on us poor, downtrodden Democrats. We ARE saved!"

Uh-uh.

Poor little you
*sarcasm off*

n/t

But if there is one candidate that deserves these "personal attacks", it is Arnold Swartzenegger. The count is now up to 11 for the number of women he has harassed or "assaulted" as would be the case when he put his hands under their clothes. He has not denied it. So is it "personal attacks" to point this out or is just telling a truth that needs to be told?

As for the attacks on Bill Clinton, which were too numerous in my opinion, the ones that were proven were of the consensual nature. No one proved the Juanita Broderick story or the Paula Jones story, although from the information that we did get, it may have been misinterpreted as consensual. But it doesn't matter because Bill Clinton was attacked personally. So now, because we are better than they are, we are not supposed to tell the truth about Arnold.

so I'm betting alot of voters let it go in one ear and out the other. The women should have come forward sooner.

at least, most of them. The women had already reported it. The newspapers, finally the LA Times, started reporting it 5 days before the election. Blame the newspapers, if anyone.

researching the veracity of the complaints. That explains the timng.

We all know Arnold groped a British talk show host. It's not like anyone doubts that he's a womanizer or a brute. This could have been brought up long ago, but it seems like a really desperate last-resort tactic.

used cases that were verified by someone else who had been told at the time - that takes time.

I mention below an explanation heard on NPR's MarketPlace last night - it makes sense.

I am glad it is coming out.

Continuing to refer to Arnold as a "womanizer" or a "brute" is an attempt to downplay that the allegations against him are sexual assaults and were NOT consensual in nature. That's what makes this different from Clinton. This is not just a morality question but a legality question. Not to mention taking into consideration how Arnold's attitude towards woman will translate into legislation if he gets into office.

Why are you even here?

11 women have come forward. Even Arnie says "where there is smoke there is fire".

He admited it, why don't you beleive him?

forward the Times CONTACTED them after their NAMES were supplied. You have had three days to read the article and very OBVIOUSLY have NOT.

When you haven't actually read the article. Then your misinformation doesn't look as suspect. :mad:

n/t

http://www.marketplace.org/shows/2003/10/03_mpp.html From Friday.

Isn't that where the anthrax started in Florida?

The Democratic Party is not behind this shit. IT IS NEWS. Shove that "bad strategy" shit up your ass. If Arnold didn't have a past chock full of this despicle, arrogant, mysogynist bullshit, it wouldn't be coming out, regardless of when.

Funny, you are parroting the GOP. What's up with that?

I am reacting to a thread that makes fun of Arnold's German accent(I am a Franco-American, and I do not like to hear people's accent made fun of. ), and how I never hear on the news anything about Arnold's anti-union politics. He doesn't even sidestep the issue of workers; he bashes workers. And on this board there are countless threads today about his womanizing, but none about how if he wins the state of California is going to go to Bush in 2004 or about how he wants to take away the rights of workers.



What you are doing is attacking me personally, and that is against the rules. I demand an apology.

It'll be a cold day in hell before you get it.

Revealing truth is hardly victimizing someone, and it doesn't matter when the revelations occur.

Im sickened by those who think sexual assault is "silly," or that there's ANY possible defense, or that Arnold is being victimized by his own past, or...or...or... There are any number of disgusting defense of the sick Nazi bastard, and Maria's is probably the sickest, tho I take most offense at the one's here on this "left-leaning" board.

Eloriel

as the ignorance about sexual crime and the promotion of the "good ole boy" mentality.

Granted, there are very few, but how they can be so ignorant and misogynistic and still call themselves liberal just makes my head spin.

Let's see how hard this is:

Womanizing: chatting up, maybe going to bed. Consensual.

Groping: feeling a person up against their wishes; may involve a degree of force.

Anybody need help with these?

Sheesh.

simply because it will be of benefit to themselves, rather than because they believe in social justice.

including the ONLY deabte he attended ( by refused, I mean refused to debate DAVIS whom he is ATTACKING) How can we attack him on the issues with unequal air time?

BTW, there is PLENTY of hypocrisy to go around. Dems didn't like the attacks on Clinton but are attacking Arnold, Repubs thought it was worth 80 million dollars but are endorsing Arnold.

the Terminator. Too scared to even debate. Why? Because he doesn't know what the hell he is talking about? So when he gets to be Governor, he will know what he's talking about? Get friggin' real! So he will depend on someone to tell him what is best for California...but sincce he knows nothing about it, he won't know if they are telling him what is good or what is bad. He will be a puppet. A big, ol' stinkin' Nazi...

lets ignore the fact that the voters weren't responding to those issues, and the fact that many of the media held back (esp the typical attack tabloids) due to recent huge investments in businesses that relied on marketing by Arnie - so that most voters had no idea about the documented past of Arnold relating to women. Thus when he claims a progressive agenda towards women (with no political track record, mind you) - there is nothing to weigh it with to determine whether it is rhetoric or not.

So when information comes out that suggests that this guy is likely to take sexual harassment to the governors office, and uninvited grabbing and gross conversation does create a hostile work environment, it is newsworthy.

Each person who has come forward - had discussed this long ago with people when there was no reason to 'sell the story'. The bigger question is the role of the silent media up until the end.

While I heard innuendo about the reasons, it was not until I heard NPR's Market Place last night re: the tabloids (the major three are owned by the same source) silence. The story mentioned that often in campaigns the 'dirt' is first dugout in the tabloids and those that have weight get picked up, but that in this case not only were they silent, but they had published a special edition glossy magazine (just a one time magazine, not an issue of say "US") featuring Arnold and Maria. The story was that in the absense of this, the other media had to dig (in short time) in ways they were generally not used to doing. (I, for one, had never really thought about the role of tabloids in political campaigns.) Seems that the media company recently bought (not sure if bought all, or just a big chunk of) several fitness magazines - which often feature Arnold who sells a great deal of magazines. The story also said there had been a similar dynamic in Jeb!'s last campaign. Remember that media group is located in Florida, and was hoping for some special tax treatment).

So to you this is sleaze. To many it is something more. Something insidious about the media (seems to have been a lot of free media for Arnold, and a lot of silence on items that would have killed other candidates). Did this play a role in who dropped out for the GOP? See the guest column in this morning's LA Times by Bill Simon's former Campaign manager.

As to the content, it is a big deal. Ogling, cheating and near assualt are very different things.

explains the timing and previous silence.

Egads and gadzooks! That dam Ah-nold is so crafty, a shoe in as governor of Cali-O-fornia!

Classical_liberal and Former Republican have been posting the same messages over and over again all week. Pretty transparent, if you ask me.

A tag team! I would suggest that those who sympathise with Arnold send him a sympathy card and go out and join the other swooners!

opinion on Arnold's behavior? Funny, that Classic Liberal shows up as soon as you mention him/her, too.

The threads you are starting both seem like flame bait.

but this sort of lowest-common-denominator campaigning is rather vile.

Your right anti-union rhetoric and pandering to corporations is a much more important issue but who cares. Arnold's macho combative sytle -- "this is hand to hand combat" -- almost invited this response.

Let's stick to the issues. As far as
the playful things go, now that I seen
the light and say I am sorry and respect
the gals, that just means as Governor I
will fight harder for what gals want to show
I have changed, as soon as we figure out what
gals want. As far as the Nazi things and all that,
if everybody was honest they would admit that
Nazi things give them a flutery feeling thinking
about being loved and desired and worshiped
by a stadium full of screaming fans that agree
with you whatever you do or say. Everybody dreams
of dictators. So thank you let's stick to the issues.

to be Governor of California. He is fair game, IMO.

even Larry Flynt is more qualified because he's at least run a business empire? Arnold? Nothing.

He's a puppet of Ken Lay. Read the Greg Palast article. The Arnold camaign smells to high heaven.

This is corruption of the highest order.

Can you point to a thread you've started recently which hasn't been about one of the follow topics?:

Going easy on Schwarzenegger
Discussing which Democratic candidates are the worst and why
Whether Republicans lurk here at DU

You noticed that too! ;)

..about Morgan Freeman.

We live in a state with some of the MOST liberal labor protections in the nation. Davis has repeatedly signed legislation to KEEP it that way. Even if Bush PASSED the overtime law it would NOT apply in California where we HAVE protected the 8 hour work day and we are NOT a right to work state.

People here who are injured on the job still get to CHOOSE their own physician after 30 days of control by the carrier. The benefit of that is that one does not have a doctor beholden to the carrier for business shortchanging them on their disability. Arnold will surely work towards repealing that since that is what INSURANCE carriers want.

These are things to vote for...can a SINGLE GREEN tell me Camejo could get MORE cooperation given the HUGE influence agriculture and law enforcement have in this state even WITHOUT campaing contributions? What do they think Camejo will be able to do? Govern by FIAT?? It's NOT gonna happen.

Davis legislative record on Green and labor and equality issues:


GREEN ENERGY POLICY

Today, non-hydro renewable energy provides a greater percentage of California’s power supply than it does in any other state in the nation.
Created an $850-million energy conservation program – the largest in state history.
Expressed his support for increasing statewide usage of renewable power from 12 to 17 percent by 2006. Provided more than $350 million in budget funding for the development of renewable power.
Directed the new California Power Authority to make a steady increase in the use of renewable power a priority.
Provided more than $47 million in incentives for the purchase of zero
SMART GROWTH

Closed a loophole allowing developers to subdivide large properties, circumventing environmental and zoning laws.
Signed legislation requiring major new housing developments to identify a source of water prior to construction.
Signed legislation to promote cleanup and redevelopment of urban brownfields.

CHILDREN'S ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH

Unveiled a new plan in 2002 to expand the existing Childhood Lead Poisoning Program.
The Governor provided support for clean-up of hazardous substances at school sites and to evaluate air quality in portable classrooms.
Broadened air quality standards to evaluate health risks to children (in addition to adults).
Signed the Healthy Schools Act to reduce pesticide use in schools.

ENVIRONMENTAL SAFETY

Setting the national standard for environmental justice.


Governor Davis established some of the toughest environmental health laws in the nation to regulate toxic mold, Chromium 6, and arsenic.
Signed ground-breaking environmental justice legislation, setting the national standard for long-range planning and environmental guidelines.

COASTAL PROTECTION

An unprecedented commitment to California’s coast.
Governor Davis has provided $107 million to clean up coastal pollution and reduce the number of beach closure days.
Signed legislation strengthening beach and coastal protections.
Filed a lawsuit against the U.S. Department of Interior to block additional offshore oil drilling.
Vetoed the “Rigs-to-Reefs” bill which would have allowed oil companies to leave decommissioned oil platforms in place.

WATER QUALITY

California is the first state in the nation to meet certain federal clean water standards, using an innovative approach addressing both inland and coastal pollution in one program.
Supported and actively campaigned for Proposition 13, which earmarks $1.9 billion for water supply reliability, safe drinking water, flood control, and water conservation projects.
Signed the toughest water quality enforcement law in the nation requiring mandatory penalties for pollution.
Negotiated with U.S. Department of the Interior to address California’s water supply, water quality, and ecosystem restoration needs through the CALFED Bay-Delta program – the nation’s most comprehensive water management system.
$21.3 million in the 2001-02 budget for water quality efforts, including reducing pollution from dairies and storm water.
Governor Davis ordered the phase-out of the hazardous fuel additive MTBE, and petitioned the U.S. EPA to grant a waiver allowing California to bypass requirements for oxygen in gas, on the grounds that it would be counter productive and add unnecessary cost.
Provided $13.5 million in the 2001-02 budget to preserve and restore wetlands around Lake Tahoe.

Overtime Expansion

The Industrial Welfare Commission, whose members are appointed by the governor to reflect the interests of the public, labor and business, extended overtime to hundreds of thousands of workers in California who never before received it. Overtime was extended to the construction, drilling, logging, and mining industries.

Raising the State’s Minimum Wage

California’s minimum wage earners received a pay increase. Governor Davis approved an increase in the state minimum wage from $5.75 to $6.25 effective Jan. 1, 2001. An additional $.50 increase was approved effective Jan. 1, 2002.

Caesar Chavez Holiday

Honoring the founder and long-time leader of the United Farmworkers of America, the governor signed a bill declaring March 31, as Cesar Chavez Day in California. The bill, establishing the first paid state holiday in the nation to recognize Chavez, also requires the development of a curriculum to teach children about non-violence and economic justice, and encourages students to participate in community service activities through AmeriCorps and the California Conservation Corps.

Farm Worker Housing

Mindful of those workers who drive the economic engine of California’s Central Valley, the governor signed legislation that provides $500,000 in tax credits to builders of farm worker housing, another bill that increases family services for farm workers and their families and improves the safety of farm labor vehicles.

Child Care

The governor approved measures that expand the resources necessary to retain qualified child care employees in state-subsidized centers, and that require the state to develop recommendations for playground safety requirements at licensed child care centers.

Labor Law Enforcement

The governor signed legislation strengthening labor law enforcement and increasing penalties for employers who do not pay wages to their workers, and approved a measure that strengthens employment protections for people with disabilities.

Binding Arbitration

Governor Davis approved a binding arbitration process for firefighters and law enforcement employees that preserves the rights of these employees while offering consistent protection of the public.

Workplace Safety

Governor Davis approved increases in funding for Cal/OSHA to improve workplace safety, targeting employers with the highest proportion of fatalities, injuries, illness and workers’ compensation losses.

Young worker safety

The governor approved a statewide young worker health and safety resource network, which will increase the ability of young workers and their communities to identify and address workplace hazards for protecting young workers from on-the-job injuries/illnesses.

I might add that since I was IN PUBLIC HEARINGS in Sacramento for MOST of the labor law issues, I challenge ONE GREEN to demonstrate that a single ONE of those ISSUES was championed by a REPUBLICAN rather than a Democrat since so many CLAIM there is NO difference

No the greens will say..but a contributor of Davis' polluted and he didn't lock them up....I agree that was a mistake however A) the amount contributed was OVERBLOWN, b) the perpetrator got heavily fined and there was NO evidence that DAVIS had anything to do with obstructing justice in the matter.

Arnold is taking AIM at CAL EPA..because of the TECH and DEFENSE industries, this state deals with approximately 170 toxic chemicals that other states do NOT address. I CHALLENGE A SINGLE GREEN TO PROVE THEY COULD HAVE DONE BETTER with a full HALF of the legislature being Republican for Davis first term.



Oh and one more thing..the thing that cracks me up the most
are people who support Howard DEAN and Dennis Kucinich saying Gray Davis is TOO conservative. Read the above and you will see why...Davis increased women's rights and INCREASED the minimum wage and INCREASED union participation in the state while taking on OIL, DEVELOPERS and INSURANCE CARRIERS AND THE FERC. Ideologically Davis is CLEARLY to the left of both of them but just doesn't seem to resemble Che Guevara enough for some people's tastes...Nevermind that he is governor for a state with 35 million people and half of them are bigots that think every problem we have is because of mexicans (while they eat Taco Bell)

Shooting your mouth off about things you actually know. Silly girl, when will you ever learn? :crazy:

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proof?

If you don't have common sense yet, no link is going to help you.

Apparently innoncent until proven guilty isn't a liberal value. Let's bring back lynch mobs. It will make you happier.

Are you denying that you said that Arnold and Davis are not essentially any different?(now that you support retaining Davis, like Arianna) Say that, and I will take it all back

but lying about me unless I do is pretty stupid, don't thing?

thats progress.

. That would mean you are attacking me for reasons other than Arnold, which is a cheap shot.

asked for clarification, and stated that imo that was progress.

I invite you to read the following and then discuss why Davis should resign - you speak of media distortion relating to Arnold - and that it appears politically motivated, but seem to not consider the same thing related to Davis - that many hold distorted views of actual record due to politically motivated media representations.

skip the part about camejo - but look at the description of Davis's actual record.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=471020

Violation of women (which Arnold has done by groping the unwilling) is awful, criminal, and obscene....

BUT CALIFORNIANS ARE FOCUSING ON THEIR POCKETBOOKS and the democrats in California need to emphasize that he is not only a very, very, NASTY person who looks like "a condom filled with walnuts" (credit Molly Ivins) BUT HE IS ALSO IN CAHOOTS WITH THE CORPORATIONS WHO SCREWED (pardon the language) CALIFORNIA!!!! THAT IS MONEY!!! AND PALLAST HAS BROUGHT THIS TO THE FORE AGAIN. USE THIS POCKETBOOK ISSUE TO TACKLE THE GROPING, VIOLATING JERK.

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=283&row=0
<snip>
"The wannabe governor has yet to deny that on May 17, 2001, at the Peninsula Hotel in Los Angeles, he had consensual political intercourse with Enron chieftain Kenneth Lay. Also frolicking with Arnold and Ken was convicted stock swindler Mike Milken.



Now, thirty-four pages of internal Enron memoranda have just come through this reporter's fax machine tell all about the tryst between Maria's husband and the corporate con men. It turns out that Schwarzenegger knowingly joined the hush-hush encounter as part of a campaign to sabotage a Davis-Bustamante plan to make Enron and other power pirates then ravaging California pay back the $9 billion in illicit profits they carried off.



Here's the story Arnold doesn't want you to hear. The biggest single threat to Ken Lay and the electricity lords is a private lawsuit filed last year under California's unique Civil Code provision 17200, the "Unfair Business Practices Act." This litigation, heading to trial now in Los Angeles, would make the power companies return the $9 billion they filched from California electricity and gas customers." <snip>

horrible. But Californians are "numb" (I don't want to say dumb) from information overload. THEY NEED TO BE REMINDED OF ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS THEY ARE IN THE SITUATION THEY ARE. AND IT IS NOT DAVIS'S FAULT!!!
ARNOLD WILL MAKE SURE THE 9 BILLION ARE NEVER RETURNED TO CALIFORNIA.

this issue either--otherwise Arnie would not have the lead. Surely they have heard multiple stories about the Enron-Arnold issue, and surely most of them understand that Republicans have certain pro-business views.

I suspect that there is a core of people who share Arnold's values, joined by apolitical types who just think it would be cool to have another movie star for governor or find him charming, who comprise nearly all of his 30% support, or whatever he really has. They are not going to change their votes for ANY issue at this point.

Please don't be right. Please don't be correct. Please do not let this country be what I am thinking it has become.
Please, please.

most of the other 70% get out and vote. If they can't bear to vote for Davis, then they need to back Bustamante. It's just that I think that Arnie's 30% core is hard core.

these charges (Arnolds Nazi ties and groping) for weeks. They only reported the stories now because they wanted to be sure there were no discrepancies in the report. In short they wanted their story tight.

Sorry no link this was a blurb in todays Khaleej Times in UAE.

This has NOTHING to do with AssHats accent or smearing a candidate within days of the election. The LA times was doing it's fucking job. That is reporting the facts. Arnolds personal life is public now and if he doesn't like it he shouldn't have thrown his fucking hat in the ring.

Taught my two year old after we saw Arnies pic in the papers to say IDIOT ARR-NOOLDD today man was that fun!

backed Off..reporting on arnie when they should be having a "Field Day" right now because a "partner of arnie's" sold his magazine interests to the "Enquire, Globe, Inc." for $350,000,000. So the "tabs" said they would give it rest before the election and not go after arnie...hmmm?

see him in the debate taking a "cheap shot" against Arianna?

the 9 billion Ken Lay, Cheney and Wilson stole from our state. Is that one OK?

If the sexual assault stories are true, then it is entirely appropriate that people come forward BEFORE we put this creature in a position of power.

Do you understand the difference between consensual sex and assault?

between the "womanizing" accusations thrown at Clinton during the campaign and the use of Monica Lewinsky as a subject for Independent Counsel investigation and an excuse for impeachment. The "bimbo eruptions," Gennifer Flowers et al, was not high-road politics, but it wasn't completely out of line. It potentially raised issues of honesty, attitude toward women, etc. Clinton satisfactorily answered those accusations at the time and got elected anyway.

What was beneath contempt was the pretense that a BJ from a perfectly willing Monica Lewinsky, and then the unwillingness to "fess up" to it on national TV, constituted "high crimes and misdemeanors" to justify Starr's high-profile (and heavily leaked) investigation and then impeachment of a sitting President.

What was fair for Clinton is fair for Schwarzenegger. What was unfair to Clinton has not yet been even considered against Schwarzenegger.

It would be one thing if they were false accusations like were leveled against the Clintons but when it is something he actually did why would you call it a smear? Does the truth hurt so much you have to start smearing people here?

First, it does not matter what Democrats do. The media is not on our side. I remember watching "Larry King" at my parents' house this August and listening to King chastise a caller because the caller had the nerve to question why Schwarzenegger was not able to provide more details about how he was going to get California out of debt.

It is worth noting that the Republicans were the ones who insisted that the election be held in October. I wonder if they knew about these allegations and wanted to rush the election so the good people of California would not have a chance to dwell on these issues.

Unfortunately, there is a tendency to confuse sex with sexual harassment. I did not care about Clinton's relations with Monica Lewinsky and do not care about any consensual sexual encounters that Schwarzenegger may have had with women or men.

However, sexual harassment is a different animal. From all accounts, these women were not sexually interested in Schwarzenegger. This did not stop him from grabbing or gropping them. Schwarzenegger's alleged victims were women who generally held no power in society. They were low-level employees in the film industry or waitresses. In many cases, these were women who could not afford to bring charges against him for fear of losing their jobs.

I suspect that this man has a mean streak and the people of California will learn about it first hand if they elect him. Sadly, I cannot vote against him because I do not live in California. I can promise that I will never watch another one of his movies.

He's a scumbag.

Who are you kidding here? A smear is when you spread false information about someone. This stuff is not false. Are you posting this for the laughs or what? Get out of here.

Don

Wake up, DUers!

I object to the attitude on Mr. Schwarzenegger's part that he is entitled to run the government of the largest state in the Union because he's famous and because he was part-owner of Planet Hollywood. Schwarzenegger's lack of qualification will soon become painfully clear to the people of California.

Attacking his accent? Certainly that's a cheap thing to do. But what I don't hear (in the mainstream press, at least) are attacks on his qualifications.

The man has no political skills at all. He's mastered the sound byte, and that's all. He's insulting the people he will have to work with come October 8th.

Why attack small, unimportant things about him like his accent when there are soooo many better things to attack him for, like his complete inability to grasp the issues he will have to deal with as governor?

No Leadership Background, No books written, etc etc.

He is a rank amateur, thats AMATEUR. Is he a PUPPET? led by a group of Pub Masters? sure looks it.

That he was even considered is a joke.

I will NOT allow the Democratic Party to become a party that is weak on sexual criminals. I will NOT allow Clintons consentual blow job to be associated with rape or criminal molestation.

from what I can tell this jerk didn't just make unwanted passes at women -- he grabbed body parts (like popping one woman's breasts out of her bra), he attempted to take one woman's clothes off, he suggested crude sexual stuff, etc. mostly in front of other guys to bully, intimidate and humiliate the women. These are infantile, school yard bully tactics -- and given that it was often on the job, I consider it sexual harassment of the first order. The women even said they were afraid to speak up for fear of losing their jobs. This guy is a sick, sexual predator. I don't think for a moment that one can compare Clinton's 'passes' or requests in private with women with Arnie's crude, sick behavior. This is not private life stuff!

The more important story though is the Palast one -- his candidacy is a payoff for dropping the case against BIG Energy: