The Party's Over. (As In Democratic Party)

Apparently it will take another four years of Bush for the democratic party to shed old useless skin and re-invent itself into a viable force in american politics.

And it breaks my heart to say it. I hope the country survives the next four years of Bush or it could really really be over.
Can you see Jeb Bush after George? I really couldn't until Arnie "won" California. This country is ******!

eom

Don't get me wrong, I am mad as hell. But I wonder if we are so angry that when we need to be pragmatic and rational we screw ourselves?

it is alive and well in canada and europe (canada won't last long, they're next in line to become the 51st state after republican governors take over all the american states and the difference with canada is it won't be a secret war... it will be open nuclear agression)

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Hitler rose to power and was enabled to commit the atrosidies he did.........goodnight America ZZZZZZZZZ

We are the Nazis of the 21st century.

Just because the people in California were fed up doesn't mean they had to vote for Arnold. They had other choices didn't they?

We are way down the slippery slope, we've already invaded two countries and but for the "quagmire" would probably have invaded another by now.

It's a sad day for america. I see no silver lining in this one.

for how they laid down before the "ienvitable juggernaut" of the Nazis.

Now I feel a sort of grotesque sympathy for them, surrounded as I am by so many of the same kinds of people (upodated for a different time and nation).

And yes, Goebbels v2.0 shows us that people haven't really changed much since Goebbels v1.0 threatened the world.

At least not in the sense that the outcome of the recent CA recall will have a real bearing on the '04 race.

Why? Because many of the people who signed petitions or voted for the recall did it because they were just fed up. PERIOD. Most of us on this site are at least knowledgeable enough about electoral process to understand how something like this was manipulated from the get-go. But the average voter out there -- even those inclined to vote Democratic -- might have signed or voted for the recall simply because they wanted a change.

Hell, 5 years ago I would have voted for the recall, thinking I was helping to "make a difference". I know better now, but many out there don't through no real fault of their own. They just haven't had the scales lifted from their eyes yet.

They're taking it out on any governor in their sight. California joins Maryland and Massachusetts. But notice we've taken the governorships in Wyoming, Oklahoma, and Kansas in the last year.

Another thing. 72% of voters dislike Davis, but only 54% or so voted to recall him. The democrats are still the party calling the shots in California in the long run, and to see Davis run close despite his being as popular as Nixon on the day of his resignation is heartening.

"California joins Maryland and Massachusetts"

Maybe I'm missing something. Romney didn't replace a Dem. governor. We've pretty much had Republican governors since Dukakis left.

nt

First of all, the Democratic Party is what we make of it. I'm tired of everyone acting like it is out of our hands. It's not. Secondly, when the people are dissatisified, party associations don't matter. It's "Out with the Old, In with the New" whoever they are and no matter how stupid a move it appears to be. I've seen it happen to repukes and dems alike.

I suggest everyone pick themselves up, get some coffee and some chocolate, and start thinking about what we can do to counter the next repuke recount, redistrict, and recall strategy. We've got work to do and really don't have time for a pity party

I'm sitting here a little heartsick over what happened in our largest and most important state last night.

I actually watched Imus this morning (I hardly ever do) because I just couldn't bear another Ah-nuld story. Apparently, neither could Imus. His newsreader was halfway through reading the news about the election results when Imus snapped "Enough!! Enough enough ENOUGH! Stop it!!! STOP!" The newsreader looked confused and kept reading, and Imus interruped "blah blah blah! Stop it!! I'm sick of it! Enough! It's over! Blah! We've got other things to worry about! Yankees-BoSox tonight! And more Cubs-Marlins!" The reader stopped with the California news and moved on to a story about Iraq.

:-) It cheered me up for a second, and so did your post, sybylla. I think I will treat myself to some chocolate today, then roll up my sleeves and get back to work. :-)

LOOK OUT

The party is in a shambles because it can't decide which way to go.
I'm sure there were some germans back in 1932-33 who were laughed at for saying the country was moving in the wrong direction.

After all, like any good marketing folks, they know that the way to revive the Old Product (Totalitarianism, One-Party Unchecked Rule) they know that they dare not evoke images of this past, discredited product in ways overt enough for the general populace have grasped.

"Kinder and gentler" Nazis, indeed. They certainly share the same propaganda strategies.

and try to rationalize it as not being a big deal, but this is truly a bad omen for our party.

Californians just elected a man, an actor, with no political experience, to try to turn their failing state economy around. They did it once before, but RR was not a PROVEN SEXUAL PREDATOR, nor was he to my knowledge, a nazi apologist.

This is wrong, wrong.

Republicans only WON this because it was a Special Election....they couldn't win in normal one and had to make a play for RECALL....they would NEVER win CA any other way.....

The Democrats In CA voted 4 the recall and also voted for the groper....why? These are normal working people who are sick of NO JOBS!

This is a wake up call for all Parties....the people are in a uproar because of what BUSH has done to this country and are taking it out on their own States.....

My opinion....WE have a grass roots man running....and another (Clark) for the security ,minded out there...
Its our choice NOW ......It takes money alot of it to get our Men on the News.....and in the Papers....we all have to help......

The recall didn't start because some ladies at the PTA and a few guys down at the garage started going door to door to collect signatures. Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) paid $1.5 million to get the ball rolling.

Schwarzenegger had instant name recogntion, plus financial backers, plus a compliant news media which mistakes entertainment for news.

In short, it's all about money.

The interesting aspects of today's story are the racial divisions in the vote and the fact that Proposition 54 failed.

In addition, the obvious ruthlessness of the Republicans has earned them a lot of enmity and may eventually energize the Democratic base.

In addition, the obvious ruthlessness of the Republicans has earned them a lot of enmity and may eventually energize the Democratic base.

Jeb won re-election after the 2000 fiasco.

Republicans only WON this because it was a Special Election....they couldn't win in normal one and had to make a play for RECALL....they would NEVER win CA any other way.....

I beg to differ. Davis was weak. Period. The only reason Davis won the general was because he intervened in the Republican primary to get a weaker opponent. If Riordan had won the primary, Davis would have been toast. Between them, Arnold and McClintock got 60% of the vote. Sixy percent of the voters voted Republican! Given this, I'd say the Republicans are more than capable of winning a normal election, provided they put up a strong candidate.

Did you look outside? The sun is shining! Jeez, you would think the world has ended. Stop whining. The right wingers are starting to feast on themselves. Sit back and enjoy the show.

To my eyes, the people of California just elected a pro-choice, pro-gay, pro-gun control moderate, who happens to be a Republican.

In addition to the preceding points, he's a philandering, drug-using sybarite, which won't sit well with even the most blinkered conservatives. The California GOP has made a faustian bargain with Ah-nold that will be their undoing.

Not to mention the fact that he has pledged to reduce CA's deficit without raising taxes, which means huge cuts in services or huge hikes in 'fees' (which the GOP will have you believe aren't taxes, though its money that flows from your pocket to the government.)

My prediction: Arnold's ascendency to the governor's mansion is the death knell for the California GOP.


Oh, and as to the four more years of Bush... This recall was a referendum on Gray Davis, not the Democratic party. The worm is turning across the nation--even here in the HeartLand™.

My prediction (#2): Bush, as his father before him, will be a one-term president.

How I hope you're right.

I too, wonder why so many here are whining. This is a good thing for the Democratic party.

Arnold will implode.




(on edit:fixed typo)

You are sadly mistaken if you think this guy is going to keep any lib tendencies he may mouth.

He will fall in lockstep with the GOP core ideals soon enough.

I remember back when Chimpy was talking about running for President. I was sitting in a graduate level political science class and we were discussing his exploratory committee. Several people in the class were saying that he was moderate and not it bed with the psycho right. They were certain that he would be fair and would never give in to the neo-cons.

I told them that they were are delusional and that if he won, things would get really bad. They all said I was paranoid. I say paranoia is a good thing if it keeps you alive.

bye bye state jobs....welcome outside contracting. :-(

You simultaneously paint Schwarzenegger as the man who will drag the Republicans down with him, and say that Davis is totally separate from the Democrats. I think the GOP can disown The Octopus far easier than the Democrats can Davis.

DU'ers certainly do not need to panic over this. Other "good things" about Arnold's win:

Gets one more Groper off the streets
Easy passing of constitutional amendment declaring proper pronunciation of "California"
No new Arnold Movies for at least 3+ years
Put up or Shut up Factor: Arnold must succeed to be successful not just get by
Shuts up the "Shut up and Act/Sing" crowd
California Voters get what they deserve
Pisses off the extreme right wingers in California

I agree that the fiscal situation won't be better under Arnold than Davis. But I think he might be able to spin it and blame it all on Davis. After all, during the economic downturn in the beginning of the Bush term pre-9/11, people didn't blame him for the economic fallout because he successfully blamed the recession on Clinton, saying it started before Bush took office. If Arnold can do the same, he'll ride it out, just as Bush did before 9/11.

We've been doing that since living in caves. But I think Arnold can only ride that mantra for 100 days or so and it will get tired. I think the CA Senate/House should sit on their hands and make Arnold propose all the nasty cuts or tax increases. Let him stew.

They were close to approaching balance. The budget is in nowhere near as bad of shape as the republicans made it out to be. Ah-nold is being handed a huge gift but I would be willing to bet he will screw it up.

I'm with you on this. There is a silver lining to this...it's just gonna take time to get over the "reasoning" behind this fiasco.

I wouldn't be surprised if Arnold eventually went to being an Independent...miracles happen everyday.

...he may well become an independent. We'll see.

I just don't buy it, FlashHarry.

Refresh my memory. Arnold is hardly the conservatives' choice. Had they stood on principle (do they ever?), they would have thrown their weight behind McLintock. But, instead, they decided to close their eyes and go with the faustian choice--because they thought it was their best chance at winning.

As I've said before, it only proves the GOP's motto: Politics Before Principles.

It takes a leader to win an election, not just a party. Clinton was the nominee of a party that the media had declared as dead as the whigs, but he won by stategy, hard work, knowing where to compromise, and by communicating his beliefs with the people. FDR did that. JFK did that.

All it takes is the right leader at the right time. No one likes Bush, but they don't see an alternative. SOmeone has to become one (and running around complaining about how bad Bush isn't the same as offering an alternative).

ANd what are we whining about? Davis was a horrible campaigner. California is in a shambles because of the oil companies raping and mugging of the state. Right or wrong, Davis gets blamed for not being able to stop it, and frankly, that's a bit fair. Any governor who allows big business to do what was done to California is failing to do their job. Maybe it isn't Davis's fault, but he still seemed unable to fix it.

And he was a terrible campaigner. Didn't anyone explain to him that he wasn't going to win supporters by piling an Arnold? The Arnold allegations (or revelations) were obvious to everyone. That was the time Davis should have looked like a leader. "I don't know how voters will react to these scandals, but that's not my concern. The energy companies have gotten out of hand, and I can stop them. Arnold does not have the experience to stop them, and he is allied with the party that helps them, anyway." Instead he began restating the obvious, complaining about the allegations. You aren't supposed to complain about allegations when they are that obvious. The media is doing it for you. The voters are already questioning your opponent. That's when you look like a leader, ignore the opponents problems, and look like a visionary.

In short, Davis was a bad candidate and bad governor in a state undergoing bad times (started by Pete Wilson, but no one remembers that far back). There's no point in blaming the whole party for his loss. Let's just get on with the next fight. As Coach Parcells would say, shake it off, rookie.

I'll never abandon hope or cease working to achieve victory.

I want my country back.

Julie

I don't live in California, and I know nothing about Davis, but I got the feeling he was one of the worst dems out there.

Most people like their dems. Not so with Davis, from what I saw.

That will make Californians happy AND be good for Bush?

BushCo, with their weird thinking that Dan Quayle was good for the women's vote, yeah, it's the same mentality, are thinking they have another Ronnie Raygun.

Well, Arnie doesn't have Alzheimers and his ego is still as big as the state.

He's governor? Let's see him govern.

Pass the popcorn.

I have seen two articles this week connecting Arnold to a sweetheart deal in the works for Enron. The plan, apparently, is for Arnold to fine the company 2 cents on the dollar for their ripoff of California, which I'm sure he will use as a way to appear 'tough on corporate crime', so that they can claim double jeapordy in a $9 Billion lawsuit being sought against them currently.
Score one for the corporate pirates.

See: http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=144-10032003

Schwarzenegger: Total Amnesia? Enron E-Mails Show Arnold Met With Ken Lay During Energy Crisis, Says Consumer Group

10/3/03 4:00:00 PM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: National Desk

Contact: Doug Heller of the Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights, 310-392-0522 ext. 309 or 310-480-4170

SANTA MONICA, Calif., Oct. 3 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Internal Enron e-mails confirm that Arnold Schwarzenegger was among a small group of executives who met with Lay at the posh Peninsula Beverly Hills hotel in May of 2001, in the midst of California's energy crisis. The Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights, which obtained the e-mails, is calling on Schwarzenegger to acknowledge the meetings and disclose the information that was presented and discussed. The meeting with Enron occurred ten days after rolling blackouts darkened California for two consecutive days; Schwarzenegger has previously said that he does not remember such a meeting.

"You don't meet with America's most well-known corporate crook in the middle of California's biggest financial disaster and not remember," said FTCR's senior consumer advocate Douglas Heller. "Mr. Schwarzenegger should come clean about what happened at that meeting and if he shares Ken Lay's views on energy regulation."...

And: http://gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=283&row=0

Arnold Unplugged - It's hasta la vista to $9 billion if the Governator is selected
Friday, October 3, 2003
E-Mail Article
Printer Friendly Version


It's not what Arnold Schwarzenegger did to the girls a decade back that should raise an eyebrow. According to a series of memoranda our office obtained today, it's his dalliance with the boys in a hotel room just two years ago that's the real scandal.



The wannabe governor has yet to deny that on May 17, 2001, at the Peninsula Hotel in Los Angeles, he had consensual political intercourse with Enron chieftain Kenneth Lay. Also frolicking with Arnold and Ken was convicted stock swindler Mike Milken.



Now, thirty-four pages of internal Enron memoranda have just come through this reporter's fax machine tell all about the tryst between Maria's husband and the corporate con men. It turns out that Schwarzenegger knowingly joined the hush-hush encounter as part of a campaign to sabotage a Davis-Bustamante plan to make Enron and other power pirates then ravaging California pay back the $9 billion in illicit profits they carried off...

**** The Palast article is a must read. Remember how Issa just showed up with the money to fund the recall, then quietly left center stage? What are *his* ties to Enron?

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

This election was about the poor leadership quality of Gov. Davis and the fact that the Dem Party could not unite behind a capabale leader. Bustamonte didn't seem like an inspiring leader either.

This is a defeat for the Clinton-esque Dems, who don't have the political talent nor charisma of Bill Clinton so have to live more on spin or dirty tricks politics than on true leadership style qualities.

Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.
George Bernard Shaw

wins '04.

Nobody is giving up, but facts must be faced. There is nothing good about Arnold winning California. Nothing.

And doesn't it nag the hell out of you that it appears that the media is now determining who the winners will be?

Those media bastards! The first few seconds into the exit polls, they were already declaring "Ahh-nuld is now the governor-elect!" when it was only 1 percent of counting! It was a pain to hear them chortling about it, and a burden to watch the events unravel.

I still can't believe it.

I was actually surprised that such an unpopular governor received over 45% of the vote.

resurrect the Democratic party. He can bring in a lot of new voters. This Arnold thing proves that many people who are democrats DO vote for republicans too. It would behove our presidential candidates to stop dissing Clark for voting for a few repubs because when they do that they diss a lot of people beside Clark.

for the democratic party. I just didn't understand the bashing when he declared. If a Joe Blow american citizen who is republican all his life, decides to become a democrat, we here at DU applaud, and welcome everyone warmly. But Clark... What's up wit dat?

In no way does it hurt the party to have a general declare as a democrat. If somehow we could have these candidates as a team.

I like the military strength that Clark excudes, the civil concern that Sharpton and Braun provide, the imagination and sincerity of Kucinich, Dean, ...

If the democratic party fails in pulling america out of its worldwide white supremacy agenda, we will be crushed by all the plotting nations of the earth.

The democratic party cannot do this and at the same time, be wedded to the white supremacy agenda. Democrats will eventually learn this, or we all perish.

one which supports unmoderated democratic principles, one that has a radically alternative vision from the incumbent party, and one which is more interested in beating incumbents than merely defending its feeble positions in power.

Does the Democratic party meet these requirements? If not..Democrats will become more endangered than the Snail Darter! :nopity:

it's slightly less profound than the average high-school sophomore, but he obviously is very impressed by himself.

And when talking about his ideas about church and state, he mentions he's a history major, as if that means anything.

we start a recall to remove his butt from office. 3 months is unrealistic, I know---but so is blaming Davis for what Wilson put into motion or for the Enron/Bush energy raping of CA 3 yrs ago.

If der fuhrer can't solve the problems like he says he can (yeah--and with what legislature is he going to do that with?), then he's a liar and has to go.

Also, what was good enough for Clinton is good enough for Arnold---criminal investigation into the sexual battery charges made by 15 women. Making an issue of him groping women is what needs to be done because it was considered a fair game tactic by the refuqlicans when it was Paula Jones making the allegations. I guess Californian women who voted for him think it's ok to have someone like that let loose in public office--he didn't grope them, so he's a good guy... if he had groped their daughter/wife/sister/mother, then I suppose it would be enough of an issue for them to be incensed. Clearly, Maria Shrivelled-up doesn't give a good gd, but then again, Kennedy women put their heads in the sand or in a bottle when their men run after other women.

His being a refuqlican is no reason to spare him. His being foreign born is no reason to spare him. His being naturalized over 25 years ago is no reason to spare him. Being a naturalized foreign-born citizen who all of a sudden can't understand English well enough to articulate his position when tough questions are put to him, although he's been living and working in this country, negotiating deals, contracts and running a business for well over 25 years, is no excuse--he shouldn't be running for public office if he can't understand questions being put to him because that is what his life will consist of for the next 4 years. I have a good friend from Germany who's been here less than 10 years and she understands English well and uses slang as if she was born here---so that's no excuse.

Perhaps our weapon is to lean really, really hard on our legislative representatives and remind them that a change is in the air and if they don't want to be changed out like underwear, then they'd better heed what we say and act accordingly.

Arnold will fail.