I don't believe the "Bush is religious" crap either

the other night Seymour Hersh was on Olbermann. I love Hersh but he just doesn't get it on this issue. He went on about how Bush was religious back when he was governor, and he really believes God is guiding him.

i don't believe that crap for a second.

the only reason he ever appears to be religious is because it calls to his base. when he closes his eyes in church, he's faking it. I don't think he even believes in God. I don't think he cares about abortion.

if he really was religious he would have listened to the Pope.

he's there for one reason and one reason only. to take our money. the religious thing is BS. Rove knows they need that image to keep their base. it perplexes me that someone as savvy as Hersh would fall for it.

to dupe the easily led.

Such as "being dumb" and not involved politically (I think he's more involved than we think) and his whole fake cowboy ordeal. I remember reading here at DU someone told how when he was running for Congress in the late 70's he had his whole fake cowboy thing going on and nobody was buying it and liking him. Than he "met" Laura and than people started liking him. By the way: has anyone ever seen those so-called mutual friends that supposivley hooked them up at anything?

I've met a few heady duty fundies.... I am in canada, so we don't have that many... not in mass anyway.

Randy Duke Cunningham was a mega Christian, but had no qualms screwing his constituents, to make a buck, perhaps * really thinks god is leading him, after my interactions with the reli-right, I can believe lots more than I did even a year ago.

I can't say it any better.:thumbsup:

Too bad all those journalism and English majors on TV can't use the vocabulary their parents spent 30K a year at Columbia to purchase.

he's religious.

And there are plenty of lackeys and ass-kissers around him to reinforce that belief.

He's not religious, of course, and has nothing near the faith of, say, Jimmy Carter. But, he thinks he's seen the light, and that's enough for him.

"Listening to the Pope" wouldn't have happened under any circumstances, though. Down there in the Bible Belt the Pope is just another heathen. A lot of them don't think he's a real Christian, and listening to the Pope down there just gets you in a heap of trouble.

He's a Fundamentalist who has not really touched bases with the religious community for quite some time, and so has encased himself in a religious view entirely of his own making. They call it being "out of fellowship". He doesn't feel the need to listen to any religious leaders now,(especially not a Catholic one) because he feels he's perfected a direct link to God.

The Bible and most churches warn against this kind of thing, which makes someone very apt to "drift". In this case he's drifted into a state of religious megalomania, IMO.

As far as the disconnect between his behavior/language and his so-called Christianity, I believe he feels exempt from the usual rules of moral behavior; he's of the elite class and rules are for the "common man". It's like he and God have an "understanding". Heh-heh-snark.

who believes he was predestined by the Calvinist god to be a wealthy man and to do exactly what he's doing. He thinks faith alone is sufficient for salvation without all those sissy good works and he thinks the poor are cursed by Calvinist god for being lazy, shiftless, criminal, and worthless. He thinks his ticket to heaven is punched and that most of the people in this country will go to Calvinist hell because they weren't born rich and are therefore not worthy.

Amazing that so many people have bought into strict, determinist Calvinim and called it Christian. It's not.

Watch the following films: "With God on Our Side" and "God in the White House." One of them, can't remember which, points out how Karl Rove noticed the reaction to the fundies when Bush very very briefly talked about Jesus and from that moment on he's used it for political purposes. Whenever they're behind in the polls or whatever they bring out issues such as gay rights or abortion that they know will bring out the fundies to vote and get their fundie friends to vote and they fall for it hook, line and sinker. See Ann Richards, John McCain and John Kerry for examples. From my studying and watching Bush could give a damn about religion and as a Christian it really pisses me off how he hides behind my faith like the terrorist he is. It's really shameful how he uses God. If he truly was a Christian he would talk more about it not using other people (see Harriet Miers) and hide behind Jerry Falwell and James Dobson. As a Christian I am perfectly comfortable with talking to people about my faith at the appropriate time(s) and I've never heard Bush talk about his faith since he was selected and in 2000 he only did twice. Once when he said Jesus was his famous philosopher (I think that was probably a planted question) and than when he told how he got "converted" which I've heard at least two different tales of that.

once at an RNC convention he was asked what he and his dad talk about and you know the reply? Pu**y. Yep. Said it on national tv. And than one time he was talking to Cheney at a school and the microphone was on and he called an NYTimes reporter an asshole. Now I'm not saying Christians don't cuss, I've been known to say some words, but not in public where you know other people could have a chance of hearing you and being rude etc. Even my own once supporting Bush grandma (dad's mom) is even doubting Bush and his so-called faith. You know why? All of his lying. How she came up with that? :shrug: She doesn't get the internet and only has the very basic of cable.

way less than Clinton did.

I've heard the only time he does is when his mother and father are visiting him. He's supposed to be Methodist but he attends and Episcopal church with his folks. The Clinton's went to church in DC all the time and Chelsea was very involved in the youth group and active in the choir.

A friend of mine heard it directly from his lips.

If it looks like an asshole, walks like an asshole, and talks like an asshole, it's an asshole.

talk is all an act to stir the base...:)

If he really cared he would've come out strongly against gay marriage. Has he? Nope. And abortion as well. He has to use James Dobson and Jerry Falwell for those issues. The republican politicians will never do a thing about it. Why? They know they'd lose potential moderate/independent voters who might vote for them because of other issues. Bush is nothing more than a corporate whore and the same for the republican party. Want proof of that? Look at all the scandals going on (ie: Duke Cunningham and Jack Abramoff and Tom DeLay and perhaps Bill Frist).

I find it hard to believe for people to not "see" past that, but GWB facade does fool people...

watch what he does,
not what he says.

Is Seymour Hersh Jewish?

I think a Christian or someone brought up with those beliefs is better positioned to spot a fake Christian when they see one.

You can clearly "sniff" it so to speak. There's just something you can feel. :shrug: But you can tell he's a phoney. If you see him around other religious people and talking about religion he stammers and becomes uncomfortable. Remember when he was talking about Miers and her religion? Perfect example. Try to find a video of that and watch. It was like when he took responsibility for Katrina. Remember how hard that was for him?

I don't believe for a second he's praying.

he's saying to himself, "OK now, look religious. people are watching me. i need to make it look like I'm praying real hard here. i just gotta look serious and not smile or laugh. What a joke this freaking presidency thing is, anyway... Can't wait till it's over and I can kick back for the rest of my life. i wonder if i can i open my eyes yet."

explain Hersh's gullibility on that.

F*ck the Rapture
Just Get Naked!

Q: "Favorite philosopher?"
A: "Craahst" ...not a bad choice, assuming * would actually follow the peace and love aspects of His teachings, or he could've gone with Lincoln, Martin Luther King, or Gandhi.

Q: "What did you and your dad ever talk about?"
A: "Pussy." ...this from a guy with two daughters. Grow the fuck up, already.

I call bullshit. ;)

What a clever way to do whatever the hell you want and hide behind "Jesus" to do it!

Peace.

He's from an E. Coast blue blood family that goes way back - all ivey leaguers. How is it he has such pernounced "suthren" accent. His brother doesn't, the old hag doesn't and his father only slightly. His whole public image is a creation to appeal to the least common denominator.

it is possible he believes in God and is still an asshole. and i think he DOES believe God is guiding him and all that other crap.

that's how much of an asshole he is.

the point about the pope is true, however, I don't believe that a person can believe in God and say they're following the teachings of Jesus in any way, and at the same time take the actions he has taken. they are the opposite of what the Jesus said. it's a front.

but i know the bible is full of things and people can take what they want the way they want.

i think it is possible to believe in God and that you are following Jesus and still be an asshole.

i think Osama Bin Laden believes on Allah and that he represents Islam and that what he is doing is what God wants.

i also think there are people who believe in the same thing but view what BUsh and Bin Laden do as being the opposite of what their religion is about.

Jesus said blessed are the peacemakers.

they are not peacemakers and there is no way to twist it.

jesus said to help the poor.

they are not helping the poor and there is no way to twist it.

they know damn well what they are doing.

BinLaden is a different story. I don't think you can group them into the same basket.

(Matthew 10:34) - "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35"For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household."

I don't care what the bible says about anything, but if you're going to hold up only SOME of it, so can Bush.

I have a deep distrust of anyone who wears their faith as a badge and/or who uses it as a club. Bushco and his RW lapdog enablers are doing both.

I was educated by Catholic nuns and they are the reason I am a democrat today. They instilled in me the importance of social justice, equality, peace, harmony, humility, and the plight of the poor. (As an aside - these same nuns were also my babysitters when my mother needed a sitter for me after school; they didn't come to my house, I went to their convent. My experiences with them were, for the most part, very positive but I still have to wonder what in the hell possessed my mother to hire a convent to babysit her daughter.)

I now live in the southern Bible Belt and have run into my fair share of businesses who plaster those fishes and crosses all over business cards and advertisements. They are notorious for ripping off their customers. We have a standing rule in our house that if there's a religious symbol on the ad or card, stay far away.

My friend's now ex-husband is a fundie preacher. She was not allowed to wear her jewelery to church. Her holier-than-thou preacher husband left her to run away with the church secretary. After some faux outrage within the congregation over his transgressions he is still in the pulpuit preaching. So much for the sanctity of marriage I guess. (FWIW, this guy is the most articulate, interesting and eloquent speaker I have ever heard - he could talk a starving dog off a meat truck.)

I see Bush as a psuedo-Christain because I don't see any example of Christianity in his Presidency. Where is the concern for the poor and the sick, the environment, for peace, for social justice? I haven't seen it at all. Claiming that God told him to invade a country doesn't count.

The psuedo-Christians have chosen to punish and ostracize those who don't conform to their own views; they are reminiscent of their extremist muslim counterparts who have hijacked the Islamic faith. They both choose to a wield a club of vengeance, violence, and judgement in the name of their God.

I apologize for this lengthy rant but this has been bugging me for some time now and your post was the catalyst I needed to get it off my chest.

It's interesting because this whole thing with bush and his rabid dog base needs to be exposed.

Christ was as Liberal and that needs to be pounded into the conscienceness of this country.

"a dictarship would be a heck of alot easier- so long as I'm the dictator".

Religion may be similarly tempting to him. The way Sy Hersh describes it, Bush is the messiah in his little religious play. I mean- it's not as if he assumes the role of the humble, penetant Christian.

So perhaps we can paraphrase one of his earlier statements. 'Religion would be a heck of alot easier- so long as I'm the messiah'.

Know what I mean?

religion is good for bush as long as he's God.

But here's the thing. I don't think Bush knows that he's not religious. He's so divorced from reality that he doesn't realize that it's an act. I'm totally serious. If he says God talks to him, then God talks to him. And if God talks to him, he's sure not gonna talk to any liberals, is he? So how can we possibly know what we're talking about? It's so simple, really - peeance, freeance.

period

Mr Hersh is brighter than that. I think Seymour is just talking about the front * puts up.

On edit: the only god * and especially Cheney worships is $$$$

Hersh has been a major critic of the administration. I don't see why he would help Bush create a false image. In the interview, Olbermann even asked him if he thought it was a front and Hersh said no. Very disappointing.

an email addy for you but couldn't find one.

religious people who couldn't care less what the pope thinks.

being religious.

the real test is to just watch what he does. if he was really a "christian" he would follow the teachings of Christ, who said to help the poor and work for peace. he's a warmonger who steals from the poor and gives to the rich. he can put up a front all he wants but I don't buy it for a second. He knows exactly what he's doing and you can't twist or spin his actions to be refective of the "religious" type of person in any way.

the pope comment was just one point in a larger issue.

his hostility to women and gays, then Bush can be also.

As a non Christian, they look equal to me.

The religious thing is just like the cowboy/ranch/cutting brush persona.

If he actually believed the lessons of Christianity, he wouldn't be waging an unnecessary war, catering to the wealthy and screwing over the poor.

He doesn't care about anything except himself.

It's a political tool to get dumbasses to think he's with Jesus.

He's not. The only thing Silverspoon worships is money and the only thing he believes in is George W. Bush.
The Professor

And that's sort of fundy.

There are a lot of beliefs about god.

he goes against just about every teaching.

bible you want to uphold sand ignoring the rest.

Mostly you all seem to do what you want and say it's what Jesus wants.

And there was a bit about that in a book Dean wrote when they were both Governors how bush complained that those religious types drove him nuts..I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist of it.

Seems like he has Seymour Hersh fooled on this..it is so blatenly not true to me.

"if you were on trial for being a christian, would there be enough evidence to convict you?"

dubya would definitely walk free on that charge.

I think it is part of his grandiose, narcissistic personality.
Believing that he is an instrument of God being used at this
period in history to rid the world of terrorism is nothing
short of certifiably crazy - but his equally insane base
believe it also.

And this scares the hell out of me.

'religious' act. There's nothing genuinely 'Christian" about Christo-fascism.

on DU, I'd say as a nnon christian.

Karl Rove is amoral. He doesn't care who he hurts as long as he gets what he wants. He is the antithesis of Christian values. And yet, he's *'s closest advisor.

That's all you need to know about *'s faux Christian values.

He's a shyster, pure and simple. The religious thing and the talking to God....all part of the facade, manufactured to bulk up the fundamentalist vote. I can't understand why anyone couldn't see through this. He doesn't even go to church.

courtesy of http://intellectualize.org/archives/005329.html

he'a against gay marriage! He hates the same people God hates!