Free Republic's John Robinson posts on banning at FR on Liberty Post.org

After my ban at Free Republic after some years as a tolerated Eugene, Oregon Anarchist 'tree hugger' none of my correspondence was answered. As I an highly interested in the way Free Republic incubates and grows intolerance and fascist outlooks and attitude I have always kept an eye on them, and of course this means I used plenty of probing hidden in plain view accounts.

Here is the thread Uday (Clownposse.org's nickname for John Robinson) has been posting on at Libertypost.org, which has always been heavily populated with exiled FReepers:

http://libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=118397&Disp=17#C17

(Title: 'Live and Learn - soon to be banned from FR')

I believe - as I said in my post on that thread as 'ferret' - both DU and FR should open parts of their virtual community better to allow liberals, moderates and conservatives to learn to get along better. I know FR's serious communications problems and dis functionality far better then those that might exist on DU that I don't know nearly as well, but I still believe that if FR opened their general chat forum or made a new sub forum for this purpose, a similar portion of DU could become a civil - relatively so - meeting in the middle point. And this would be a good thing as there is a lack of general forums at the scale of DU and FR, and this is not healthy.

People who do not agree politically need to talk. Caucus preach to the choir venues are great, but there needs to be some better connectivity with people if we don't want the 21st Century see the U.S. become as split and Balkanized as the former country of Yugoslavia.
It's interesting Uday would show up at LP. We already knew the Biker Bar where this thread appeared of the main forum 'back to the top' flow is lurked by the FR mod squad and management. As is ClownPosse.org.

Here is the thread at Clown Posse this surfacing at LP will be noted and commented on in their 'Kook Kronicles' sub forum:

http://clownposse.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5729&whichpage=1

(Title: 'Uday's doing upgrades!')

JimRob has been at LP too a year or so ago as JimRobFR, here is that particularly long thread:

http://libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=41367&SC=1&EC=40#C1

(Title: 'Chat session - with Jim Robinson (FR)')

Jim Robinson AKA JimRob AKA RimJob.

John does much of the software development for the Free Republic LLC.
Because he is Jim's son, he got the nickname 'Uday,' the same as one of Saddam's sons by some of the most hardcore disillusioned FReepers who now post at Clown Posse.

Anyway, it was worth it to get to say "RimJob".

No shit, it looks exactly the same as it did the day they started, Crappy. I knew he was connected somehow and that he collects a salary from FR (as do other of RimJob's relatives) but to have the balls to say he's a "software developer" after seeing FR stagnate for years in a 1990's format is beyond the pale of reason.

It always amazes me that the freeps don't seem to care that the site has not been updated since the 90's. They don't seem to care that RimJob fleeces the hell out of his "flock" and gives nothing in return. I guess they think that's the American way. Take as much as you can, giving a minimal return, unbridled capitalism in it's truest form.

Their arm twisting on whom to support this last election and the changing landscape of politics in America will hurt them. As will their extremely bad and vindictive moderation standards and bad software as you point out.

His lack of skill at improving that software is why that tongue in cheek Clown Posse thread came about to mock his pretentiousness about what he does and how he does it.

Why not have one forum open to conservatives (intelligent,reasonable, civil and not the foaming at the mouth variety) to come and debate issues in a civil manner? The only caveat would be that they could only post in that forum. I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I'm just too damn lazy to search the archives.

And I guarantee you, politically him and I do not meet on many points. I also have friends at Free Republic whose politics are so conservative or neocon they scare me.

Political difference does not mean you can't get along. Unfortunately the success of Free Republic and perhaps to a lesser extent that of DU has hurt the notion an open forum works.

I know Libertypost.org is open to all viewpoints, but you have to weather the snideness and tactics of the resident inmates who hope the place remains conservative heavy.

I would love to see a middle ground where people could be American first, and build on commonalities as well as generate debate on issues, culture and events.

The 'Zot' tactic and the out the trolling FReeper policies don't answer the obvious interest many have at getting together in the same virtual room. It should be done in a way that helps cut frictions and develops some 'loyal opposition' aspects in the inline posting culture on political boards.

I've always thought this. In fact my main fascination with FR often has been predicated on how wrong it was to isolate groups of Americans with high political efficacy who often are informal leaders concerning politics on the grass roots.

Like it was already noted below, I come to DU to get away from "those bastards", but my bastards are the foaming at the mouth fundamentalist and the hardliners who eschew legitimate, reasoned debate for name calling and jingoistic platitudes. For instance, saying "I think the only way we can seriously address growing extremism and terrorism is through precise and deadly military action" is better than "you liberal faggots are just a bunch of commie cowards"; I, obviously, prefer addressing the former rather than the latter. I really do think that a "GD: Talk to a Conservative forum" could provide an example of how reasoned inter-ideological/political discourse can be beneficial, is ultimately necessary, for a democracy.

A simple rule: Any Assholery will be greeted with a tombstone.

I should note that, like you, I have conservative friends, and we disagree up and down the board on political issues. But we are always respectful of one another, always provide some insight into the other's world, and always lament how tragic the balkanization of America is.

I'm just a good ol' fashioned Habermasian- I think consensus is achieved through discourse in our society's public spaces.In short, nothing changes unless we make some effort to understand, and that only begins by communicating with those who themselves are willing to understand. It's the only way to avoid the extremism that is detrimental to true progress.

anyway, my 2 cents.

I posted there. Nobody was snide.

Freepers, unfortunately, are tools. I feel sorry for them.

If you want to argue with freepers , there are places to do that.

what people are not allowed to do is come on and advocate for the other party. or use this board to trash us in order to benefit the republicans.

I have essentially figured much of that out, but it helps to hear that articulated.

There's a good subset of FR and DU users who are convinced that anyone who doesn't share their views is a lying, murdering bastard. I, for one, would not want to be a moderator in the middle-ground forum, and I'm known for starting shit around here. :)

and have ben planning to start a forum sometime soon. And I know right off the bat that if I tried to create a venue in the middle ground I could never do it by myself.

Its true. What can we do? Can we all just get along?

and many of the conservatives I was often revolted by early on I came to trust as friends. The place has a 'Rumpus Room' where politics was off limits. That civility tended to 'inoculate' the rest of the place from some of the worst ad hominen activity we otherwise would have had.

People are lust people, and often online we tend to forget that. I've seen very conservative people argued until their viewpoint were closer to the middle, and it works that way sometime to very progressive, liberal folks too.

It would be good to see an end to the worst of the 'take no prisoners and destroy the other end of the political spectrum rhetoric out there.
All people do by that sort of posturing is make a tail chasing dog look mature and sane.

with a Republican. I'm a Tibetan Buddhist and we do visualizations and I think sending loving energy to a Republican you hate can be helpful and transformative.

To do it you first surround yourself with protective energy and spirits that will 'take care' of any demons/bad energy you draw in. Anyway you simply visualize say, Donald Rumsfeld and breath in his black energy and send out (green) loving energy. Its hard to do, the more odious the person is or the more you hate him. So I have done that and I find it helpful. I don't know if it actually affects someone like him. I am sure it actually helps people you are close to, say a relative that is sick.

In the material realm, I am trying to keep all my Republicans freinds and not gloat at all. If any emotion is displayed it would be saddness at the tragedy of the nation, but don't actually challenge any 'issues'. Also just having a non-political basis for freindship is key.

maybe.

but as I am still posting there and because it is a minor player in comparison to FR and DU, I am not going to elaborate too much on what criticism I have of the place.

I have been given 'time-outs' there for ridiculous things, so suffice it to say I have been aggravated by some things there too.

As the Bushler Reich begins to crumble, there will be many disenchanted folks at freepville. There should be a place for the brainwashed to recover. Who knows, they may become civil humans once they are well-informed - many really do not know that Bush is fucking them in the ass right now and I pity many of those poor, lost souls. Others, though, should get a lobotomy.

They are dangerous people. As we are strange distant vultures to them, they are and will always be nothing more than knuckledraggers to me. And most here. I spent three years trying to find a middle ground in Hannity's poor excuse for a forum. With few exceptions, it was nothing more than 150 children with too much money or seriously harmful Cretans looking to harm those not a fetus or card carrying Conservative.

They (the Conjobs) planned on our demise for decades, and when they took over our government, OUR FUCKING GOVERNMENT, they spit on it and emptied the treasury. Corrupt, Conservative, Propagandist ConJobs all.

And you want to get along with these folks? They would kneecap you over a dime, kill your children for being gay, and rape the Constitution for their legacy. Read my signature line. Our last real President recently spoke those words.

I now live by them. You should too. If not, move aside and find something else to do.

I haven't spent time on Hannity and this is interesting to know. I actually looked for middle ground when I first arrived at FR, but I realized that influencing some of the newest and uninitiated into the board culture there to not getting a taste for the kool-aid served there was the best one could hope for.

I am an activist in real time in the Pacific Northwest concerning environmental issues, and I loath the hard core knuckle draggers at FR very much.

But I know that polarization of peoples online helps their tactics of working wedge issues be effective and an interface forum where people see the pratfalls of the Free republic before they buy into the snake oil sold there is not to be scoffed at.

You are right on the money in understanding the true nature of the viciousness and intensity of our worst enemies.

But the best tactics against them is not always to be as ruthless, uncommunicative and uncompromising as they are. Sometimes by showing you are willing to respect them as human beings and talk to everyone sells the strength of your overall message better then theirs spread with hatred and laden with threatful vindictiveness.

Remember that when you argue with someone as articulate and set in their views as you, they are not going to change their minds. It is the lurkers who read the exchange to entertain them and give them insight into the particular issue are those one doing advocacy aims for.

And in an interface forum or internal limited sub forum you are aiming to convince those new to the place not to get to deep into the bot status being a FReeper gives you.

I believe such middle ground places would influence people away from FR thus are worth thinking about.

No middle ground, room for discussion, talk, Buddy chat, nothing. Their sole purpose, is to turn the Country into the United States of Christ, and become the American Taliban while enslaving those who disagree or do not have the wealth to resist. The middle ground is why we lost in the first place, and can't unite on shit now.

No, if you can't fight these people and get our country back, move over and do something else.

against them. I have no illusions, I have done plenty of civil disobedience and know there are plenty of people out there just as bad as you say they are.

Their weakness is they operate predicated on hatred and mortal terror of their own worst fears. they win if you start broadcasting on the same bandwidth of hatred as they are.

If you can't stand dialog in the process of figuring out how to cut the diamond in dealing with these characters, spare me the bovine droppings about move over. I might be more communicative and willing to treat cultural enemy as human beings then you are, but don't mistake me for weak.

It wonk work to try to move me and others like me aside out of false perceptions of weakness. You just find out the hard way where false impressions get you when they turn out to be as mistaken as yours'.

They want people opposing them to be like them. Besides, you are wrong anyway to assume people like me don't have a continuum of response that would put us in violent fight against these people, or don't have the will to do so.

How quaint, you think dealing with the cow patties (to wit: bovine droppings)we call the Reich-Wing care a snit about dialog? They can't understand anything other than the pretty colored pictures of female tities and Laura Bush's latest pants suit when told how to vote.

Go bring your pencil to this gunfight. The next two elections will be won by how many corrupt Cons we expose, not by talking to the dirtbags who have no say in the political hierarchy.

I'm done here, try to impress someone else with your holy spew.

And I am in no way caring if you are impressed with me or anything else, as you are engaged in a bait, not in any true discussion about anything I have said.

In Oregon the Repugs were trying to get Nader on the ballot to split the vote to allow Bush a win there, or at the least force Kerry to spend more time and money there to reduce his focus being put where it would do the most good.

I uncovered paid petitioner fraud and am the reason Ralph - whom I have voted for twice before - that ultimately denied Nader a spot on the ballot. I was the whistle blower and was mentioned in the stories on that and spoke at the SEIU press conference announcing the investigation by that union into that fraud.

Everything I say can be verified too, as I post using my real name. If I was a keyboard commando, I wouldn't be too wise in doing that.

Thanks for the amusing post, and I sincerely you indeed do walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

Regards, Michael McCarthy in Eugene, Oregon

But I think the dividing lines have probably been etched a little too deeply for either site to willingly tolerate a "foreign" body. Like a mismatched organ transplant, the body (the members of the respective forums) will tend to reject it.

A third forum, outside of DU and FR, might work. A true "coming together" site would be interesting, and perhaps productive. But who would have the time, energy, money, and patience to administer and monitor it?

After all, it would take only one "Bush is the Second Coming" post followed by a "Bush = " post (that would be mine) to throw the whole thing into turmoil...

...that are "open". We've enough problems here with the herding of cats and the big tent. We don't need to bring in "the other side" to foster debate, that can take place somewhere else.

This idea comes up every once in a while, and -- thankfully -- never goes anywhere.

Keep your knuckledraggers. The day Skinner gives them voice here is the day Skinner goes certifiably insane -- and it'll be the day I phone him in the nuthouse to formally request cancellation of my account, forever.

In the meantime, "middle-ground" forums have been tried, and failed, and the few that still exist (one rhymes with "Pee-You") are nothing but troll territory.

I applaud your idealism -- and if you think you can accomplish anything worthwhile, you put up with them. I don't want their steaming pile of shit here.

Never forget:

These are the same motherfuckers who hounded Andy Stephenson into his grave.

Don't you EVER forget that.

Only people with no conscience, and no soul, could have hounded a dying man so viciously. I don't WANT to discuss things with them. Anybody who could be as cruel as they are is not somebody I care to associate with.

There are other sites where liberals and conservatives can argue, but please, DU is my oasis in the desert. Don't poison the water in my oasis.

Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate the problems of dealing with a viciously homophobic crowd, and know this is one of the ugliest sides of the Free Republic. It is one that they have successfully transplanted elsewhere in other forums along with their unadulterated hatred of anything Islamic.

But it is in the memory of people who have been harmed by these people's wedge issue building people should keep dialog open with people from all over the spectrum politically.

When their words go un countered, people lean toward accepting them if they mistake silence to them sa tacit agreement that they represent truths.

I worked on efforts locally to defeat the now defunct Oregon Citizen's Alliance that specialized in hatred of normal, productive citizens merely for their sexual preference. So I do appreciate your viewpoint.

I have to head off to work now overnight, so thanks for the parting food for thought. Cheers.

These are the same people who harassed me through AIM the day of Dumbass' SOTU this year because I dared to call their lord and master a nasty name.

The day we allow those knuckle-dragging, gay-bashing, mule-fucking, Bible-sucking, illiterate wastes of human life onto this board is the day I cancel my account at DU. This is a place for me to go and be surrounded by friends--not to argue with some Luddite who thinks evolution is fiction and gays should be burned at the stake.

I've yet to come across a so-called conservative who can defend anything happening in the US right now without resorting to the same lies and bullshit that got us here.

Bill

But not here. There are other message boards you can hang out at that allow it, i.e. NYTimes. Imo, the best board for both liberals and conservatives was the CNN message boards but they shut those down after * was installed as president. We all got along okay, you couldn't make personal attacks against your fellow posters.

I rather DU the way it is now. No freepers allowed.

Is donate to DU, get a gold star, and join the Cooking and Baking group.

I just wouldn't suggest any conservative actually try to force a debate on DU outside of the non-political forums. It only ends in nastiness and more often than not, eventually, a tombstone.