6-Year-Old Faces Expulsion For Touching Classmate's Rear

6-Year-Old Faces Expulsion For Touching Classmate's Rear

POSTED: 10:51 pm EST December 1, 2005
UPDATED: 7:56 am EST December 2, 2005

COLERAIN TOWNSHIP, Ohio -- A 6-year-old boy was facing expulsion for touching a classmate's rear end, and his mother said she thinks the school district is going too far, WLWT-TV in Cincinnati reported.

Yolanda Kirk said she's not disputing Northwest Local School District's right to discipline students.

"Don't get me wrong -- it's not right for any child to physically touch another child," she said. "I don't condone it."

A letter from the school district claims that her son, Blake, engaged in sexual acts, displayed excessive affection, engaged in inappropriate touching and used obscene gestures. But Kirk said her son's potential expulsion is excessive.

http://www.local6.com/education/5448231/detail.html

dug out :rofl:

what kinda school is That? We not supposed to TOUCH when we 6 year old kids? Good Grief...what hyave we become..a breeding ground for neurosis.....

If someone touched your butt, would you call it affectionate?

means?

The kid's parents outta face some stiff punishments if according to the article he's been displaying other types of lude behavior.

to touch a classmate's butt.

Yea they can understand that it's bad but they don't understand how adults actually get fired, sued, or go to jail over such types of behavior.

How many other 6 year olds at this school have been touching a classmate's butt?

How come the rest of the kids seem to understand that they can't do it, yet this kid has done it at least twice.

Yes, 6 year olds know all about personal space and keeping their hands to themselves.

Sorry, but no amount of convincing by posts in this thread is gonna change my mind that this is utter bullshit.

I also condemn those rushing to conclusions based on such few details of his actions. What was the lewd behavior? What were the lewd gestures? Do we even know?

He's 6, period. Treating him like some sexual predator will scar him far more than anything he is seeing at home. How bout some caring sit-downs with the child explaining why the behavior is wrong and trying to get to the root of why he is acting in such a way. Might be better for the kid than suspension and expulsion.

a referral to social services, rather than expulsion. Of course, now that his name and face have hit the newspaper, it's not going to matter which school he goes to. I wonder who is responsible for that?

I assumed that he had sit-downs after the first offense. Having first hand experience with kids who have been over-exposed/sexually abused, younger than 6, I'd like to see some professional help and protection for them.

I'm not out to change your mind; my pov can stand on it's own. I didn't, btw, express support for expulsion, as far as I know. My pov is that a 2nd offense indicates something other than innocent play/touching, and should be investigated.

And I don't think it is appropriate, not having all the details, to automatically assume that just because it is the 2nd offense it indicates something other than innocent play, as that notion is preposterous to conclude.

Furthermore, how do you know they had a sit down after the first? I would tend to think they didn't. Hell, they already had fucking suspended him!

This kid doesn't need suspension, expulsion or a trip to social services. What he needs is a school environment with teachers that care enough to take the time to understand the cause of the behavior and do their best to show why it is inappropriate. The school should then work with the parents to address the concern of the behavior in a way beneficial to everybody.

Yeah, let's suspend and expel 6 yr olds. Society has become fucking insane.

:sarcasm:

are adults.

:)

then it isn't such a big deal, now is it? Middle schoolers are a lot older than 6.

But I don't think you are going to find many 6 year olds who are even capable of giving permission for a classmate to touch their ass.

And I don't see where the story mentions the little girl thought it was just like a football game.

what kinda school is That? We not supposed to TOUCH when we 6 year old kids? Good Grief...what hyave we become..a breeding ground for neurosis.....

much better than expulsion?

How long is the suspension?

Also, it is his second offense.

I'm guessing young Blake is a future Congressman or Governor.

I think there's a kneejerk reaction on DU so many times to these stories. You have a 6 year old that is acting out simulating sex acts, etc., and talking to the kid does not work. Talking to the parents apparently doesn't work, either. Do you want to teach a classroom of 6 year olds when one child is acting out sexually over and over? Do you want to lose your teaching job because you and your school were sued because he sexually harrassed another child and their parents sued because the school didn't take it seriously?

You have to look at ALL sides in these things, and try to put yourself in everyone's shoes.. not just the kid.

"WHAT?!" Expelled for touching a classmate's rear? But after I read the article my concerns were in another area.

He has allegedly done this twice, and allegedly "engaged in sexual acts, displayed excessive affection, engaged in inappropriate touching and used obscene gestures." My concern is now the homelife of this child. As a former social worker I would be concerned that this child was either being exposed to sexual situations or was actually being sexually abused.

I don't think expulsion is the answer, I think it needs to be turned over to children services and investigated to the cause.

the proof is in the White House.

This is insane. a SIX YEAR OLD? kicked from school? Boy, I hate to think of the terror I caused as a 6 yr old. No, come to think of it, I enjoyed it.

They are certainly not. However if this is a repeating pattern perhaps some intervention. I do agree that all this is alleged and probably blown out of proportion.

Whomever he was touching didn't like it, and it doesn't matter if you're 6 or 106: you need to keep your hands to yourself if someone says no. Six is old enough to know better. This was by no means "brotherly love."

Now, I agree with posters up thread: this child probably either has a personality disorder or has something weird going on at home, because his actions are excessive and aggressive for a child that age. That needs to be looked into ASAP. I don't believe he should be expelled, but he does need to be disciplined in some way.

is learning them somewhere. I'd be a bit more concerned about his emotional health and home situation than I would kicking him out of school. A pat on the butt by a another school kid is one thing..overt sexual behavior by a 6 year is cause for concern.

And why is it wrong, exactly? I'm not talking about inappropriate contact with an unwilling recipient, which is clearly a problem. But why must a child's sexual consciousness be perceived as wrong in some way?

Did anyone not play some form of "doctor" at that age or younger?

I don't dispute that the current situation requires corrective or disciplinary action, but the idea that children of that age are asexual is a Victorian myth.

When I was 4 I knew that I liked Nicole in a way very different from how I liked Brian. By 6 I'd begun to have a vague sense of how things worked, without being exposd to some sexually malign home situation.

I never grabbed their butts, nor used obscene gestures. Jan did kiss me on the playground in the concrete tunnel as we held hands though. WOW. That was good enough for me at the time! (I still liked Melanie better though). I'll never forget the first time she walked into the class. She was adorable. Probably still is.

She'd have broken your heart---count on it.

As far as "grabbing" goes, in my school (~30 years ago) such behavior was commonplace.

That doesn't make it right, but it does, IMO, make it wrong to single out one child unless he consistently behaves in a disruptive or harmful fashion.

Although its not something I do with just anyone. We had arranged a trip to the coast for my folks when they came to visit last spring. They were a bit upset that her and I played "kissy face and Grabass" while in their presence. Interesting, I didn't think we were that affectionate in public. I think it had more to do with my mother not getting the attention she wanted from her 40 year old "little boy". Maybe dad wanted a little grabass himself and was a bit jealous. The grabass was consentual as well as the kissy face.

Not my grammar school. They would have suspended them for sure. Boys got detention for teasing girls about wearing bras. I'm 41, so that was a while ago.

I asked my teenage niece and nephew about this, and my niece said there was a boy in her second grade class that grabbed the girls' crotches all of the time. It happened time after time,a nd she said he told them he was "seeing a doctor." His parents moved away soon after that (this was a military base school).

So, I think it's probably not common behavior in most schools.

When we were kids in the Sixties we played doctor, strip poker, etc at ages 9-12. Today those things are criminal offenses. And I don't think any of us learned those things through abuse. In fact I don't know where we learned them from.

The fact that none of us knew anything kept us out of getting into real trouble. That is probably more of a problem today. If any of us 11 year olds knew what oral sex was we would have tried it. But we didn't. Today apparently eleven year olds do know and are trying it.

Exploring your own sexuality and even pointing out differences in other's sexuality are perfectly normal. But at this young age, touching another's breast or butt repeatedly in spite of discipline is often a mimicking behavior - something seen at home in adults and maybe even encouraged in the child (Oh, look honey, Johnny is making it with Suzie! Isn't that funny!)

When you've seen what I've seen in kids this age, you start to recognize patterns. It's hard to tell in this case without a lot more information and observation of the kid, but it's not that uncommon to see sexual harrassment behavior in a kid this age. It just cannot be tolerated.

Maybe he is just a little screwy and his home life is a-ok. But it makes one suspicious.

Sexual curiosity is normal even at a young age. To assume abuse when a child displays such curiosity is to criminalize a natural part of the development of identity.

Blake's behavior may have been inappropriate, especially if the other child was unwilling or felt violated, but that doesn't strike me as sufficient cause to yank Blake away from his family, thereby subjecting that family to the permanent stigma of being labelled "sexual abusers" or the like.

Further investigation may be in order, but the first step should not be to separate the family, unless strong evidence justifies taking that step.

Blake's actions are not, in themselves, sufficient justification.

if its a pattern of behavior and not a one time thing..it should definitely be cause for investigation. That being said, these things should be handled carefully.

We had an instance here of a five year old that was forcing other children to kiss the five year old on various body parts. The child was also acting violently towards others (hitting other kids about the head). At five years old. That isn't normal sexual behavior of a five year old.

A series of victims suggests possible abuse. It ought to be investigated. The article used the words "sexual acts" which implies more than one act.

Instead, the poster would like someone to investigate.

They haven't jumped to any conclusion.

But calling for the child to be removed from his family is, at the moment, unjustified. As I mentioned, this would automatically subject the family to a harsh stigma, because to be accused as a sex-abuser is to be a sex-abuser, as far as public opinion is concerned. That's an automatic and generally irrevocable sentence right from the start, and it's as good as "assuming" that the family is guilty of the suppoed abuse.

Investigate, yes. And if a problem in the family is discovered, then Blake should be protected. But until/unless that problem is discovered, Blake's behavior does not warrant his removal from his family.

Kids see kids do.

and hug them. I was about three at the time I think. So I guess I would be a sex offender now. Totally ridiculous.

There is a big difference between what you did and what this little kid did. Think about it.

I'm really, truly hoping that the many people here who think this child's behavior is normal are simply a little foggy about how they behaved when they were kids. I had some interesting friends when I was little, kind of unusual, sometimes strange. Nothing like this ever happened between any of us because my friends understood what normal behavior was. They weren't perfect, but they were socialized by parents who didn't sexually harass each other and taught their kids how to behave and not behave around each other.

Yes, this is not normal innocent behavior. I said this earlier - how many other 6 year olds in that school go around touching each other's butts? I would bet ZERO.

The thing that gets me is he did it once before!! Didn't Mom understand he can't do that at school??

I just posted the school district's code of conduct. It is spelled out in plain language - and so are the possible consequences.

Playing doctor and self-exploration is also decently "normal: at that age, but this boy's behavior was beyond that. No one is criminalizing sexuality, they are "criminalizing" unwanted, inappropriate sexual touching and expression.

we're in a tough spot in cases like this. The kid sounds like he is being exposed to sexual situations and is mimicking them in school - which is not good. So you reprimand, blah blah. But if it keeps happening and you don't take further steps, the parents of the other kids in class can file lawsuits about sexual harrassment. It's the fastest growing suit filed against districts.

I think alerting social services is mandatory in this case, but if it really has been happening in spite of the schools' disciplinary actions, I don't think they have a choice but to suspend. Yes, even if he's 6.

Are these stories starting to piss you off? I am so over these wild stories that are Mom's version of events ONLY. Of course Mom is going to leave out the details that make her little darling look bad.

I also am surprised when I see them posted on DU. The RW loves these stories; it feeds their 'public schools are bad and we want vouchers' mentality.

As they say on Morning Sedition "WAKE UP SHEEPLE"!

I guess most DUers aren't that different from other people - the more sensational the story, the more they seem to feed on it.

Perhaps we've just seen too, too many of these stories to fall for them at face value. Who knows - maybe the kid is being victimized, but IMO, things just aren't adding up. I'd have to know a lot more about his day-to-day behavior in school. And the fact that he's 6 just isn't enough to dismiss it altogether.

hanging out with 6 year olds and I don't know many who go around touching each other's butts. Last one I knew is now 13 or 14 and was arrested for rape last summer.

This is NOT innocent behavior.

I wonder if that school district has a website with their code of conduct posted on it? That's another thing most people don't realize - schools send home the code of conduct and all parents know what the rules are. You can bet there is something in there about sexual harrassment. I would also be willing to bet Mom was told the first time he did this that he would be suspended or expelled if he did it again. She was probably also advised to get him some counseling. But of course, Mom would leave those details out of her story to the media. :eyes:

Too many years dealing with public school administrators to assume another motive. For the record, this is exactly the right move on the district's part--and if they haven't alerted social services, (which I highly doubt, considering that the district would also need to justify the expulsion) someone should. It might look excessive to those who a) don't understand the difference between normal childhood behavior and what this kid was doing, b) don't understand the liability risk this kid poses to the school AND other children in his classes and/or c) just aren't thinking period.

And the mother may not even know abuse happened.

This 6 year old has learned from SOMEONE about touching butts.

I think expulsion seems extreme. But once again, this is a story where we get Mom's version of events and not the school's. And without written permission from this darling's parent, the school cannot talk about it.

When will DU learn about these stories? I can assure you, we NEVER get the whole story. We don't know that maybe the school recommended counseling and Mom said no. We don't know if this is really just the second time this kid has done this. We don't know if the little girl's parents pressed charges of sexual assault against this little boy. That happens.

But think about this - how many other 6 year olds in that school are touching each other's butts? I would bet ZERO. Now how come the rest of the kids understand that is NOT okay, but this kid hasn't gotten the message?

First I was going to say the kid probably saw it on TV, but who knows where he picked it up from? The possibilities are endless.

:sarcasm: I would do a :rofl: if he said, he saw the principal got tapped on the butt in the teacher's lounge.

inappropriate and sexual, that doesn't come naturally.

They should be having someone look in to where he learned this, whether it is home or a prior daycare situation.

The mother should be wondering the same thing.

When my dd was 6 a little boy on her bus kept kissing her. Since they attented the same daycare it spilled over into the center.

Both the bus driver and daycare providers didn't believe her and just brushed it off until one day she was so upset about it they called me at work.

I picked her up and while at the center just asked the little boy if he was kissing Jessie. He (in all of his 6 y/o innocence) admitted that he was kissing dd.

If he hadn't admitted it both the center and the bus driver would have gone one thinking dd was just making it up or overreacting. She just didn't like it and that should have been enough.

Even at the youngest of ages you have the right to not be touched if you don't want to be, period. And to be believed if it happens even if the toucher is cute and well-behaved or just because the child being touched doesn't like it.

I don't advocate expulsion but do think touching, kissing, etc. be taken seriously and not be allowed to continue and certainly not be tolerated simply because little kids are little kids.

It's definitely an issue for social services.

At this point, a different school is probably in order, too. I'm just imagining the phone calls from all the other parents, and the automatic accusations, true or not, every time he even looked at another kid.

with the parent and a school counselor and having a little talk about appropriate/inappropriate touching?

I would be willing to bet it did and Mom didn't like what the counselor had to say. So she called the media.

Which is doing more damage?

I know of several.

behavior, either.

I am getting increasingly concerned about the nature of the comments people are making. At best, some of them are just dated, a throwback to an age when domestic violence, sexual harassment and other extremely inappropriate behavior was more acceptable in our society. At worst, some of our allegedly intelligent posters appear to be justifying this kind of thing--among children and adults. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, considering some of the other messed up shit people around here have been known to classify as "normal," but I am. I would think most people, especially parents, would think about the child/children who were touched by this boy, and recognize that it's not something they'd want their own kids to be subjected to, or would have wanted to happen to them as children, because it's...not normal? A little creepy? And indication that the suspended student needs professional help?

We get a couple stories a month like this. The theme is always the same: sweet little innocent child VS mean ole nasty school/teacher.

The one a few weeks ago about the kid who wore a costume to school and had to take it off and supposedly sit in his underwear all day with his penis exposed was especially ridiculous. Someone even posted a link to a radio interview with the mother and that of course was PROOF that this kid had been the same as molested by his teacher. There were a ton of holes in the mom's story. Yet many DUers took it in, hook, line and sinker.

Then again, I see these things a lot. I could tell a jillion stories about the ridiculous and unfounded accusations parents make. Most of them are what we used to call 'gold diggers'. Their kid gets into trouble at school and instead of taking care of the problem, they see a pot of money. Sad, but all too true.

Generally, if a boy got his ass severely kicked in my middle school, as was fairly commonplace back in the 70s, the administration's attitude was "Well, what did he do to deserve it?".

The kid may be repeating stuff he sees at home or even on TV. In any case, he needs to be told it just isn't appropriate in school and what gets him a lecture at six may get a juvie sentence at sixteen, and to knock it off. Most kids will listen.

Some adult at that school has serious issues to thing a six year old is engaging in sexual behaviour. Nine year old, maybe. Six year old, no.

those guys are always grabbing each other's asses.

Usually children who have been molested or exposed to pornography.

Sexual behavior isn't only "penetration."

I agree. This is my first post on this board, and as a former teacher and parent, I think this is a bit much. It's almost as ludicrous as the kindergardener who was handcuffed by police earlier this year when school officials couldn't control her. And did anyone ever stop to think that there may be some compulsive behavior that is beyond his control? My nephew suffers from Tourette's Syndrome and OCD, and one of his earliest symptoms (1st grade) was that he loved to touch his classmates' hair. It of course became a problem, but he literally HAD TO do it. Even with this severe diagnosis, the teacher and his parents were able to help him understand that it had to stop. And it did.

is six years old, WHY is he identified by name and photo in the newspaper??? Can we try not to stigmatize the boy any more than he already has been? Even if the parent gave "permission," I would think that the paper would have the sense to leave the boy's identity out of it.

Secondly, if he has been doing what the school claims, where the hell is the school nurse/social worker?? This behavior is CLASSIC behavrior from children who are being sexually abused. This child should be in therapy or in a foster home, not in a newspaper story.

Thirdly, I think it's sad that the mom has bought into the whole "we can't ever touch other people" meme. Little kids need to play, hold hands, play tag, etc., and if the school has told her that kids are NEVER to touch each other, well, we have a whole generation of Nazis in the making, folks. This is how "good Germans" were raised back in the day.

Kids being sexually explicit at that age probably have been abused.

And printing his name - they don't do that with underage crime
suspects, but a 6 year old kid kicked outta school is okay to name?
Very strange.

Those are things of the past.

They've been cut out of the school budgets along with sports and the arts by the bastards who don't like to fund schools.

They're trying to "shrink the public school system down to a size where they can drown it in a bathtub".

counseling? Any school counselor or social worker worth a plug nickel would have already made that recommendation to Mom.

But without Mom's permission, that school counselor/social worker/nurse cannot tell the media anything.

to touch someone's rear end?

The reality is that when kids are over-exposed to sexual behavior in their homes, or sexually abused, they know what it means, and they may engage in the behaviors that they've experienced.

A warning should be enough.

People go so overboard with the little ones these days! I guess we should just be grateful he wasn't handcuffed & tasered. :(

is more than a little pat on the butt among 6 year old school children. This needs to be examined a bit closer by all involved.

edited for grammar

Unless there was penetration involved, a strong talking-to with clear explanations of the differences between appropriate and inappropriate behavior should suffice.

I can't believe there are DUers jumping on this bandwagon.

The bandwagon of looking in to all the facts of the case. Often times children who have been molested or sexually assaulted begin to display "inappropiate touching and obscene gestures". Some simply shut down and fear touch or affection of any kind.

I'm NOT saying this happened in this case, I don't know. But I do find it suspicious, the language they used to describe the behavior, as to what is really going on here.

If it was a simple exploration game, a pat on the butt, I'm hoping we haven't gotten to the point of expelling 6 year olds for that. I simply think, based on the language used, there was more to it than what is being implied here as simple children's play.

...and maybe a counselor ought to be brought in.

But this is not a case for expulsion!

Sadly, the laws on student-on-student sexual harrassment take a very hard-line approach. As I mentioned in the other post, if the kid has been doing this repeatedly in spite of disciplinary actions, the parents of the *other* kids can file lawsuits against the district for not dealing with the sexual harrassment. Penetration is not required (that would be sexual assault, and the police would have to be involved - again, mandatory).

On it's face, this case seems silly, but depending on what's REALLY happening in that classroom, the district may have had no choice but to suspend.

It really disturbs me how many people here think what that kid did is "no big deal," "normal," and not a serious threat to the welfare of his classmates and consequently the entire school district just because it was "only touching." It's why I don't think the district is overreacting, nor are its actions about "punishing" this kid. Hopefully, it will force his parents to get his behavior (and their own) evaluated. It may not be pathological...yet...but the boy needs counseling. The district made the right call.

I think that's the power of the headline slant talking. If the headline had been, "Repeated sexual predator suspended" it wouldn't have generated as much noise.

Since so many of those responding are parents.

I strongly disagree. Penetration isn't the only serious form of sexual abuse- and one shouldn't wait for penetration to intervene.

These things ramp up slowly- they can progress from touching to kissing to penetration over the course of months or years depending on how much the abuser has access to the child. If a child is acting out sexually at school (and "sexual acts" mentioned in the article indicates that a behavior that was inappropriate for the child's age was being displayed more than once) then yeah, the situation should be looked at.

I'm a bit touchy on this subject right now though. We're seeing a case around here where a 5 year old has "assaulted" nearly a dozen kids. Apparently physical and sexually inappropriate assault. It isn't innocent kissing.

I am a teacher. This nonsense happens all the time - kid gets into trouble, Mom calls the media. Mom leaves out many pertinent details. Folks jump all over the school for punishing the kid. And everyone is making judgments based on Mom's version of events.

It is total crap. DUers (I thought) are smarter than to fall for these silly stories. They are just as ridiculous as the 'liberals are stealing Christmas' stories on Faux Snooze.

Shame on that "news"paper for printing such drivel.

THAT is one mean picture. LOL

for smacking each other on the behind.
:evilgrin:

in typical work environments, unsolicited touching of another adult anywhere is called sexual harassment. (Citing one professional world in which it is marginally acceptable to engage in these behaviors as a reason for your assumption that they're okay for all people in any environment is pretty questionable.) This was a child. Six year olds don't normally behave this way with other six year olds. If you see a child doing this--speak to a parent about getting serious professional help for his/her kid.

:rofl:

No doubt in Florida the cops aren't trained to handle 6 six olds. Even calling for 'backup' won't help. Keep in mind Florida killed Earnhearts cousin with a taser 2 days ago.

They have tasered passed out drunks, old people, retardeds, and kids because this 6 year old sex offender isn't going to weaken a cops 'resolve', and so he is getting off lucky, compared to FL.

in my kindergarten class -- and I shoved him against the wall in the coat room and tried to kiss him. He turned away from me, I kissed him on his back, and he FLED! My crush continued for two more years, and once I pinned him against the seesaws in second grade, to try again for my long-overdue kiss (failed again!) I'd have been SO EXPELLED!

Nowadays you would've been lectured about not forcibly touching (or kissing) a fellow student. My oldest was a bit, um, overly friendly with a classmate when he was in K. He loved her. He bugged her. Alot. She let him kiss him on the cheek.

I found out about it from the girl's mom. And then my oldest and I had a discussion about why he can't kiss girls at age 6. :D

Fuck that school district. How dare they. I'm so fed up with all these severe punishment on children articles that I come across. What the fuck happened to "Johnny, I know you were just playing but it isn't nice or appropriate to pat Jane like that". They fucking suspended him? I would love to find all of these people that believe suspending a 6 yr old is appropriate and go at each one of em one at a time verbally. You don't suspend a 6 yr old, and you most certainly don't expel one for something as ludicrous as this. And I don't wanna hear about the so called sexual touching, gestures blah fucking blah. He's 6... 6. You talk to him, you teach him right from wrong, you try to implement a level of understanding as to why what he did upset the girl and is inappropriate. You don't fucking suspend him. God what stupid mother fuckers these people are.

kids.

It is so difficult to be a parent today .
Fear of what this society of over reaction
will do to our children is overwhelming.

My kid is not perfect , he does not fit in a box
and my dream for him is that he never will.

It feels like society is making enemies out
our children .

:grr: :cry: :grr:

From the article:

"Kirk claims Blake was forced to sign a paper without a parent's consent admitting he was wrong, and then a school security guard purposefully embarrassed him.

"He took him to classroom and told my son's peers what he'd done, and said, 'Don't you ever touch anyone's private areas. Are there any questions?'" Kirk said. "You don't have to embarrass a child like that."

She said after the first time Blake touched a girl's bottom, he was suspended. But she said the second time wasn't intentional.

"He accidentally touched the little girl's bottom -- he told me accidentally -- and he apologized to the little girl," Kirk said."


EXCUSE ME!!!!!

I wonder how they'd handled it if the kid wasn't black?

and we make them sign it. It's called taking responsibility. And guess what - we don't need the parent's permission. That accusation is a crock of shit.

I don't approve of what the security guard did. But as I have been saying all along, this is Mom's version of events, which was given to her by a 6 year old who knew he was in trouble. And trust me, they 'exaggerate' a lot at that age. It's part of being 6.

from the school district student behaviour manual -

A letter from the school district claims that her son, Blake, engaged in sexual acts, displayed excessive affection, engaged in inappropriate touching and used obscene gestures.

While he needs to learn to keep his hands off when someone else says "No", I really have to wonder how much of this was normal curiousity, child's play, (anything that gets a squeal out of someone age 6 is worth doing again!) or something with more sinister undertones.

Unfortunately, there's not enough info in the story to figure that out.

that code of conduct was sent home day 1. So parents know what the rules are.

I honestly don't believe this was innocent. Kids really don't go around touching each other's butts at school.

http://www.nwlsd.org/conduct.asp

This Code of Regulations is adopted by the Board of Education of the Northwest Local School District pursuant to Sections 3313.661 and 3313.662, Ohio Revised Code. Any student engaging in the following types of conduct either specifically or generally like the kinds of conduct listed below is subject to suspension, expulsion, emergency removal or permanent exclusion from curricular or extracurricular activities pursuant to the Ohio Revised Code. This code of regulations applies while a student is in the custody or control of the school, on school grounds or closely proximate thereto, while at a school-sponsored function or activity or on school-owned or provided transportation vehicles. In addition, the Student Code of Conduct governs a student's conduct at all times, on or off school property, unless specifically limited to school property as stated in a regulation, when such student conduct is reasonably related to the health and safety of other students and/or school employees, or such conduct would unreasonably interrupt the educational processes of the Northwest Schools.

The types of conduct prohibited by this Code of Regulations are as follows:

General Statements:

101. Chronic misbehavior which disrupts or interferes with any school activity.

103. Disrespect to a student.

Verbal and Physical Issues

123. Engaging in sexual acts, displaying excessive affection, inappropriate touching or other inappropriate behavior.

Victims of molestation often act out their abuse on other children.

I'm not saying that's what happened here. I'm just saying this woman is lucky it's just an expulsion and not a full length inquiry into her child care abilities by Department of Children's Services.

Take the expulsion, teach your kid to keep his hands to himself and move on.

and not have to search for causes and effects.

:sarcasm:


Seriously, he may be a victim of abuse...his behavior is a possible symptom of a victim. It may also be autistism or he's a victim of lead paint or living too close to a refinery or any number of manifestations of real and environmental racism.

If he is being molested though, it's unlikely that his mother is really aware of it. People who molest don't advertise their activity to the rest of the family and parents find it almost impossible to think that such a thing could be happening to their child.

I pray that the whole family, including the child who was touched, get the help and compassion they need and deserve...

immediately then..

how ridiculous.


edit: spelling

This was a 6 year old.

BIG difference.

kids see this stuff on tv...this doesn't mean a child is being abused (as I read in a post above), is what I was trying to imply

and would never do it at school. And remember this kid had already been in trouble for doing this at least once before.

How is expulsion doing anything constructive about whatever problem this kid's behavior might be a symptom of?

I object to the f*cking "zero tolerance", put it out of sight and maybe it'll take care of itself, quick fix bullshit society we've got.

How about taking the time and devoting the resources to finding out what this kid needs instead of blaming a 6 year old who has NO FREEKING CLUE why he does what he does!!!!???

Or something other than the quick dismissal; "his parents ought to take care of it" instead of building a nurturing society where the parents too can get help?

DAMN.

Sanctimonious bullshit DOESN'T SOLVE PROBLEMS!!!

BUT it will get Mom's attention. The ultimate responsibility for this child's welfare lies with his parent. Even if we had wonderful resources available to help all troubled kids, we can't do anything for them without their parent's permission and cooperation.

I feel reasonably certain that the school told Mom the first time this happened that she needed to look into counseling, etc for her child. But she may have been reluctant. Maybe she has a boyfriend whom she suspects is molesting this little boy. Maybe there is a 'funny uncle' or babysitter involved and Mom is just not ready to face that reality. There are lots of possible scenarios here. But the solution for getting help for any troubled child is with the parent, regardless of school policies or available community resources.

The school's hands are tied due to zero tolerance. I agree it is not the right idea, but look at it from the victim's perspective. Before we had zero tolerance policies, we had nothing in place to keep kids from injuring each other. It happened so often - a kid would hurt a classmate, get suspended for a few days, and then come back to the same setting, ready to re-offend. The system was broken and zero tolerance was an extreme solution.

But think about the little girl who had her butt touched by this kid. If that was your little girl, what would you want the school to do? And if they didn't react strongly enough, what would you want then? This very situation did happen a lot before we had zero tolerance policies. We have probably gone too far in the opposite direction, but forcing schools to clamp down on this kind of behavior was long overdue.

their hands are tied by the current repuke view of society as being a top-down hierarchy that's tasked with making sure that everyone marches in lockstep to the definitions of standardized behavior: the "Strict Father model". Between the withdrawal of financial support and the elimination of support systems in the school along with any discretion (replaced by "zero tolerance" bullsh*t) it's no wonder there are no other solutions other than the draconian ones left.

On the other hand, I'm sure the mother would like nothing BETTER than that her son behaves well. Maybe she doesn't have the money to get her son any help -- IT AIN'T CHEAP!

My basic point is that the problem is deeper than this symptom -- it's the basically evil and amoral socio-economic system we're saddled with, well represented by the repukes in D.C., that's the cause.

3 separate times. One day he didn't show back up to school and we didn't see him the rest of the year. The next year he was in Special Education classes wearing a football helmet. They never told us what happened to him the rest of the school year and no one ever asked why he was in Special Ed classes. Now I wonder what exactly happened to him.

Often kids who are autistic are "rockers" and they sit against a wall and bang their head. They wear football helmets to protect their head. It's very common.

Well personally, I don't know if expulsion would really work - I wonder if it does not seem more like a reward for a child than punishment - that is, they don't have to go to school?

I do think he should be taught it is wrong though. I had this happen to me either early in Jr. High, or Late in Grade school - and I did tell the principal - I don't know what happened to the boy - but I still remember how uncomfortable it made me feel now at over 20 years later.

It should be stopped before it turns into something worse, IMO. If you want to show affection for someone in a healthy way, even if you were young, I would think a hug would be more appropriate or normal (even if it would not be a good thing to do if unwelcome.)

Meg

when they use a gun/weapon to kill/maim/injure. send them to jail.

For gods sake, the kid is 6...the Law sez we give KIDS A BREAK.

And this is what we get. I know it sucks to even have the law involved when it's obviously a case for therapy at most, but there is no choice. We as schools aren't given one. These things are foisted down on us, and then we get it up both ends when we try to act on things. It's a f*cking tightrope walk with people down below throwing things to make you fall off.

Sorry for the rant, but this stuff just makes me scream at the Catch 22 of it all.

Think about this - the reason we have a lot of the laws and policies we have is because parents lobbied for them. We can blame zero tolerance on parents who were tired of kids NOT being punished for some rather heinous behavior. But when their own kid gets into trouble, they complain about those very rules they helped bring about.

As my dad used to say - All parents want discipline, as long as it is for someone else's kid.

The child is acting out very sexually, and it's disruptive to the school. All it takes is ONE parent to sue the school for not dealing with this child's issue. The parent should use their energy to fix their kid.

I mean, apparently there is something going on in the child's life.. he's being exposed to something that a 6 year old should not be seeing... If I were the mother, I'd use my energy to try and find out WHY my child was acting out sexually. What is that kid watching at home? Where is he getting this?

Typical, blame the school, when the kid is the issue. What teacher wants to deal with a child like that? The school is lucky they haven't been sued by the other parents because of sexual harrassment due to this kid.

For god's sake.. get the kid some helP!!

Too many unanswered questions. Given the scant details:

Expulsion at 6 seems to be severe for a behavioral issue that I think was correctable with parent and school intervention.

The other disturbing aspect is all the attention given to negative behavior. Why are security guards needed for behavioral issues? Where was a school psychologist? Not enough of them, eh?

What would have been appropriate punishment for a kid in first grade for only 3-4 months? Taser? Lethal injection?

All Men Are Rapists" treatment here at DU.

Oh OK, Potential Rapists!

My son was sent home for pinching a girls behind in K. I overheard the father saying he was going to teach my son and me a thing or two about respect, lol until he he walked around the corner and came face to face with me. Low and behold the attitude went away right quick. lol

Long story short, the clueless teacher admitted the boys had been doing this (to each other) for the last few weeks and she didn't think it was a big deal.

Was my son wrong to pinch the girl? Yep

Did he see it as any different from pinching a boy butt? get Real Folks!

As for repeat offenses, how many times are kids disciplined for talking, fighting, swearing, etc? Do six year olds learn on the first go around?

Given that the article doesn't give much detail, I'm just going on what info is provided.

First, yes there is a Code of Conduct (thanks for the link, Proud2Blib) which does state that any student engaging in any of the listed behavior is subject to "suspension, expulsion, emergency removal or permanent exclusion from curricular or extracurricular activities". OK, fine so far.

Second, yes the Code of Conduct does specify Type of Conduct #123 as: "Engaging in sexual acts, displaying excessive affection, inappropriate touching or other inappropriate behavior".
This language was used in the letter sent to the mother, with the phrase "using obscene gestures" in place of "other inappropriate behavior". Still OK as far as the outlining of rules go.

The Code of Conduct also covers every conceivable offense from tardiness (#135) to dress code violations (#136) to guns, other weapons and drugs (#s 107 - 164).

Now, all of these rules have a reason for being adopted, and there must be consequences when they are not followed. That's common sense.

But the problem I have is that the rules are not classified as to severity, there is no differentiation between, say, tardiness and selling crack in the hallways. The only qualifier is that gun offenses will automatically result in a one-year expulsion, but other than that, the rules are seemingly equal to one another in terms of severity.

The Code of Conduct states that "The written notice of intent to suspend shall be given to the student at an informal hearing. The notice of intent to expel shall be sent to the student and the parents and the students and parents will be provided an opportunity for an informal hearing prior to a decision to expel.", which indicates along with the article that this kid is facing expulsion, which is for a much longer time than a simple suspension of a few days. Apparently, he was already suspended once, but still... EXPULSION??? For touching another student's bottom? By the article, it appears that this happened exactly twice. What was the extent of the touching? Did he poke the outside of her pants with a pencil eraser? Did he put his hand down her undies and cop a feel of her skin? The level and manner of touching would make all the difference, but it would seem to me that if he had done something really out there, it would also have violated the school's sexual harrassment policy (which is listed as #127 but not spelled out). Instead, two instances of a six-year-old touching another child's backside are labeled "Engaging in sexual acts, displaying excessive affection, inappropriate touching and using obscene gestures". It reads like a whole litany of offenses, when it may well be that the laundry list is just many different ways of labeling the same action, and pluralized because it happened twice.

Why is this child facing explusion, the highest form of discipline there is in a school setting, for something that apparently didn't rate as sexual harrassment?? If there was a sexual aspect to it, why wasn't that policy invoked???

Again, I have to wonder... does the school permanently expel every student after the second offense of being tardy, or the second offense of showing disrespect to a teacher or other student (#s 102 & 103)? What is the "progession of discipline" for various offenses, or is there any? Is the decision to hand out detention, suspension, or expulsion completely arbitrary? Shouldn't there be some sort of established protocol based on the severity of a given transgression?

So far, I think the whole thing has been overblown by the school.

Our district's code of conduct has offenses categorized as (I think) you wish this one was.

I think that expulsion is extreme but I don't think the district is overblowing this. If this kid hadn't done this before, I wouldn't believe that though. That is a key part of the story - he was a repeat offender. Mom had a chance to take care of this and apparently she did not.