I think planting stories in the Iraqi press was an OK idea

before you hit alert, hit ignore, or get out the flame thrower, hear me out.

1.We are at war after all, and psychological warfare has always been one of the tactics. Whether you like it or not, it beats dropping bombs to win hearts and minds

2. IF the stories were true (a mighty big if?), and if the stories were translated properly in a way that did not make them sound like obvious plants (an even bigger if,IMO), I see no harm in reporting any positive things our soldiers are doing over there. They are not all Abu Gharaib guards. This point is only viable if the stories were true, which hopefully will be investigated by Warner and our own press

Beyond all that it is a classic example of a Bush Admin. clusterfuck: corruption, croneyism and incompetence

1. Croneyism= the Lincoln group, big GOP donor, fat goverment contract. They need 300 mill to pull off something like this? Bullshit. No wonder defense contractors are throwing 10 mill parties for their kids.

2. Corruption=see #1, plus there is some word that while Duke Cunningham was greasing the skids for his defense buddies on the give and take, he looked the other way while the Lincoln group was feeding at the trough. There is a rumour that Chalabai was behind all this too. Shit maybe it was Judith Millers idea .

3. Incompetence=pretty crappy psyops when you get caught. Now we are trusted even less. In typical fashion, nobody will be fired and the Lincoln group will score another bogus contract under a different name

and has been used for centuries. Its use in Iraq would not have gained any notoriety if this administration did not work so hard to scam the country into thinking it was honest. One segment of the issue which should be given constant attention is the planted lies the bush administration was able to get in the NYT thanks to the likes of Judith Miller. Lying to the enemy during a war is one thing, lying to your own people by manipulating the media to get into a war is a much more despicable act.

No flames here; you bring up a valid point and I believe another example of this administration trying to use mendacity to trump mendacity and to cover up even more mendacity. Hell, they are so fucked up with their lies they don't even know what the truth is anymore.

don't you think? :sarcasm:

$300 million, while people in this country are going to bed hungry? or not going to a doctor because they can't afford it ?? While some Republican hack gets rich beyond their dreams?

that some defense contractors 13 year old kid and her friends had the party of their lives.

Shouldn't that give them the warm fuzzies? After all Mr Brooks did it for his chiiiillld.

:sarcasm:

It just goes to further widen the gap of credibility of any US Govt news sources.
Thinking there is not much left now anyway.

I am already at the point where nothing that comes out of the Chimp admin or his colonial war flacks is to be believed. And worse our colonial subjects have even less reason to think the US can act in good faith. I am sorry but things that begin in lies end badly.

Rummy has quoted Iraqi newspapers a handful of times I can remember.
There is the real possibility that the US domestic population is the audience of this propaganda and THAT is against the law.

Now was it paying to get them there. The problem was that they were published as if they had been written by Arab reporters, and nowhere did it acknowledge that they had actually been written by the Americans!

That would be like al Jazeera paying a Times reporter to get articles in our NYT's talking about all the horrible things the Americans were doing to the Arabs. Because it would look like an American reporter wrote the article, it lends false credibility!

Evene if the stories were true, they still should have been acknowledged as written by the Americans.

Like the war on poverty or drugs? Because we certainly don't have a defined enemy, or conditions for victory. Hell, that's the reason they claim they can lock away people indefinately and torture them (because it's not a "traditional" war). Sorry, we are occupying another nation, and the use of psychological warfare on the citizens of the country we are illegally occupying is just as heinous as our routine bombing of their residences, the shooting of carloads of them driving down the road, the assassination of journalists not interested in reprinting Pentagon press releases, the abuse, the torture. Sorry, this isn't a "war" anymore than I'm a British commando.

Not all Iraqi journalists are against the U.S. If there is genuine good news out there, they should be happy to report it.

that this type of action can ever be considered as morally acceptable.

U.S. public given they have been fed such for years by Saddam. They see the reality out their doorways and know what they are reading is pathetic propaganda and treat it accordingly, imo.

In pursuing this, the U.S. is just confirming to the Iraqi people that the new dictator is just like the old dictator using propaganda, torture, etc.

Do you enjoy being made a fool of? I don't.

Don

Are for the enemy, not the people.

They are not. They have been victims of US aggression for decades.

The structure of your post title implies that BushCo had an original positive idea in regard to the use of psyops in warfare. Techniques like this have been used since man first engaged in warfare. Bush is no Sun Tzu.

In this case, I also doubt the effectiveness of most efforts to manipulate the political thinking of most Iraqis. Let's not forget that they have experienced Saddam's propaganda for decades. They may be a bit more skeptical than your average American would be.

As a discipline of warfare, psyops is vital and effective. As with any powerful weapon, it depends on who is doing it and why.

On edit, I wanted to add that I believe the weapon of psyops has credibility as a valid practice of war in only a few cases. Using it domestically under any circumstances should never be tolerated.

...and should not be occupying that country now.

"We are at war after all"?? Unfortunately, yes....one that is both illegal and immoral.

If it's factual.
But why the secrecy? If it's factual why can't it just be known where it's coming from and why.
We are trying to bring democracy to Iraq. Democracy means open government. I don't have a problem with there being a budget to get factual info to the Iraq people, in fact it seems to be a necessity but it should be open not secret. The way it was exposed now does more damage to our credibility. How did you feel when it was exposed in this country that the administration was buying off the media to sell "no child left behind" or the medicad reforms. It turned you off to hearing any of their proposals, right? It is dishonest when hidden. We need open government. No more secrecy.

Just as long as you also say that Iraq is not Free or Democratic.