What's wrong with military recruiters on college campuses?

This is something I've never understood.

If the federal government is going to allocate money to an institution, don't they have the right to make that money contingent upon certain factors, like whether or not you allow recruiters on campus?

I don't think these colleges have a god-given right to the money granted to them by Congress, but that seems to be the argument that is being made.

It is my belief that if you have some sort of disagreement with the military and you don't wish to have them on the campus, there is nothing forcing you to take the federal money and setting your own policies.

think "don't ask, don't tell". Most colleges don't allow discriminatory organizations (the Boy Scouts, say) to recruit. Why is the military somehow special?

If the disagreement is so large, then they should stop taking their dirty money.

but a different school in the same university has. For example a law school which hasn't taken federal money can be forced to let in recruiters when another part of the university has. Also would you permit this against say women or blacks?

We furnished it. We are also forced to give money to Rev. Moon and the 700 Club...and they are tax-exempt. But then, they also have more power in our government than our Congress.

I can see your point of view, that allowing the military implicitly accepts an inherently discriminatory system to the detriment of gays. I hadn't really thought about that.

I'm still inclined to suggest the answer is free speech which points out the bad things, the negative things about the military, such as the don't ask don't tell nonsense.

if the recruiters weren't lying, lowering standards, and doing everything else in their power to get whomever they can to sign up (so they can immediately be shipped to Iraq).

Other than that, I don't think you can keep military recruiters off of public college campuses (nor should you be able to). Private schools are a completely different matter.

I am looking forward to all the recruits that they can con into going. You see, I have a 20 year old son who is the perfect age to become drafted if/when that is the case. Go recruiters!

against those same taxpayers who have done nothing wrong except being born attracted to the opposite sex? Of the 2 I think the Federal government discriminating against its on citizens is the worse sin.

As long as they tell the truth.

Do you see the TV commercials about going into the Army Reserves -"We are going to train you right here until you are needed" - I want to throw up. Of course it is what they don't say - "And as soon as you're trained we are shipping your ass of to Iraq - with no benefits at all."

The day the Army uses Reserves or Guard for what they are meant to be - a last resort - I will support it whole heartedly. Until that day I remain a great skeptic.

And I think all parents should be VERY skeptical.

Joe

The students in colleges are of age and can handle it. HS students are what - 15, 16, 17 years old?

I can tell you from what has happened at my daughter's school (State College), the recruiters have been booed, their tables overturned, and generally made to fee very unwelcome. But then, these are ADULTS they are dealing with and if this is want the recruiters want to subject themselves to, well, they get what they deserve.

High Schools are a whole different story.

How about IRS agents making sure every kids parents have paid their taxes? How about Homeland security making sure every college kid is a decent flag waving American? Going by your argument the government should be allowed to do whatever they want to anyone they give money to. You need to remember something, when the government gives out money, it's not their money, it's ours.
Maybe if our country wasn't so fucked up they wouldn't need recruiters on campus. If the U.S. was so good and so righteous then kids would be lining up at the recruiters office to defend their country. Recruiters wouldn't have to lie or cheat to make their quotas, and they wouldn't have to be chasing down the children of rich people who in a classic quote "Support the troops but "our kind" don't serve in the military."

College students are adults. As long as those who oppose such recruitments can be heard in opposition, I have no problem with recruiters. They lie, but then, don't all employers?

I have a problem with any "employer" that lies in a life or death decision.

All of us parents have gone thru hell with our kids to get them to a point where they might succeed. Be God damned if the Army is going to lie them into some sense of false security.

If those recruiters really tell the truth - I have no problem.

Problem is they don't.

They don't belong on any campus - High School or college until they can admit reality.

Joe

It is because generally younger people tend to make bad decisions that can detrimentally effect the rest of their lives like drinking too much or joining the military.

Don

And MADD does.

At least that is my recollection of events.

Don

Louisiana didn't change it to 21 until the 90's and that was because of federal blackmail.

I can remember when it went from 21 to 18 and then back up to 21 here in Illinois. It was affecting me at the time of the change. And back when it was originally 21 was a long time before MADD came into existence as far as my recollection goes.

Don

It was tied to the Highway Bill in 1984, and it witholds highway money to states whose drinking age is not set at 21.

My job as a parent was to prepare my children so that when they walked out into that world they could think for themselves. Have more faith in the kids.

two things... one: the military discriminates, as previously stated.

however, two: you cant say "just don't take the money" like that's a fucking option. Hmm, let's see, didn't take government money, now who do we get operating money from... oh YEAH, our STUDENTS. No thank you, my tuition is high enough without getting fucked by the federal government even more

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I see your heart is in the right place.

My mother, father and three brothers bought the same BS.

They got my kid about two weeks after 9/11.

There is no one here who could say more honestly that the military is an honest profession.

But they told the truth back then.

I WANT the people that killed our people (in NYC) blown back to the stone age. But the truth is, my boy was told he was going to Afghanistan, only to be diverted to Iraq.

I had to lie and say it was okay, for the best - when I KNEW it wasn't.

The one thing I will never forgive B*sh for is for that lie. I know what it did to good people to have to live with that lie - in a good cause. AND I pray (as a good christian) for what these poor kids will have to live with in latter years. And I know.

Support those 19 year old troops - as I do, every Goddamn day -

The best day to recognize the mistake is as "soon as possible".

This is not our fight. One day it will be - where will our army be then??

Joe

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Welcome to DU!! :toast:

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and I give them dirty looks...


But yeah I guess they 'have a right to be there'...



Students who oppose their tactics or the war also should have the right to engage in counter-recruitment activities such as demonstrations, brochures and one on ones with recruiters targets.

I guess I could synthesize this.

Did you ever meet a 19 year old kid not doing so well at school?

And then you get an army recruitter prey on the insecurity and convince them that they have the better way?? That they are "wanted" in the army??

I was 19 years old myself, once. There is no retrospective greater than age.

They told my kid that CB meant no warfare - He was diging up IEDs in Iraq the next year, too.

I am under no dellusion. If I really believed the US was under attack I myself would go, even at this late date.

The problem is they lie - and I do not think any kid can determine the difference under so great a lie.

I do not expect them to be able to tell the difference. I think that is what makes us responsible parents.

The day "W" or any asshole can determine the fate of those kids that MANY of us raised for the past 18, 19, 20 years is my very last day on this earth.

You know, Teddy Roosevelts boy comanded a division on Utah beach. FDR's boy was a fighter pilot that flew with Joe Kennedy's boy over Europe.

The day "W"'s boy or girl can say the same I'l listen.

They sure can't though. Never will.

It is not right that these assholes can use our public campuses. It is just wrong. It always will be. You show me a 19 year old kid with out a weakness of confidence - didn't you have one?????

They want to tell the truth, fine. Because let me tell you, you join up and you ARE a soldier first. That is a a fact.

Joe

it shouldn't.

Why tie them together?

But I have no problem with recruiters on college campuses.

People on a college campus are normally there to get an education, not as fodder for some recruiters brownie points. I say, no more harassment by military recruiters ANYWHERE.

Public colleges receive the bulk of their money from the states, not the federal government. Federal funding is normally paid out to individual researchers to fund their grants; it's not used for general operating expenses.

Your argument may be valid for allowing recruiters to occupy the physics department, but it doesn't explain why they would be allowed in the student union.

being forced to allow military recruiters in their weekly services, the government believes that institutions which have policies against discrimination should be forced to allow recruitment. I would almost agree with that statement, provided the university be required to find an identical agency that refuses to hire heterosexual white males because of their propensity for violence and clouding their job with sexual thoughts and innuendo.

not all are snake oil salesman. At the college level i have no problem with them personally people should be able to make an informed choice by then. Its when they target kids is what i have problems with.

Absolute Not.

What's wrong with it: EVERYTHING

Why do I think this way. Because the lie!!!!!!!!!!! to them.