Countdown carried water for Lieberman first thing.

Very obvious, very sad. Was his name Jacobs? His eyes did not even look as though he believed what he was saying.

He said what Lieberman said was the only correct thing he heard lately. What Lieberman said was that we had to support Bush's war and back him up.

Thanks, Countdown. :-(

...and in living color. Don't blame Keith.

What are you saying to me?

It was on Countdown.

DUers are getting very touchy about criticizing certain media shows. If you open your eyes, you will see that some are changing. I think we should have be able to say....hey Keith...you just had propaganda on your show.

Different opinions are allowed no matter how stupid

I resent that. They had propaganda. I have a right to say something. What is going on here?

I said the guest (who said that, not Keith Olberman) has the right to any opinion, no matter how stupid. I don't know where you got that I was calling you stupid. You're paranoid

"Different opinions are allowed no matter how stupid"

I gave an opinion. You should judge it that way. No show is perfect, and we should them when they use propaganda with some of those military guys.

That's referring to the guest. If you can't see that then you are paranoid

as Countdown doing it. It was a guest.

I'd be willing to bet Keith has lots of guests with whom he disagrees. I don't think he wants to create an echo chamber. And he asks good questions, too!

because he doesn't believe in censoring differing views. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Is it now no criticism allowed?

That was a very bad segement...Jacobs eyes gave him away.

I reserve the right to criticize any show. What is going on here.

nobody is stopping you; we're just disagreeing with you because we believe that Olbermann doesn't need to just set up an echo chamber filled with people with whom progressives believe. We can have all points of view and, since we believe KO is a journalist, he can ask tough questions of the guest. Likewise, Bill Moyers always interviewed lots of Republicans on his show. That's what journalists do: interview people with a variety of perspectives.

It's sad that someone would say a show is carrying water for a point of view just because he or she disagrees with a guest. So sad.

Countdown is slowly changing. You guys can stay in denial, but it is changing. Yes, there was a good segment on Fox news. I was not watching, but I heard something in the other room.

It is the very same thing when someone offers a critique of anything here.

I understand that journalists like Bill Moyers and KO interview people with whom they agree and disagree. The interviews provide me with information, which I then process, analyze, and evaluate.

The exchange of ideas is only "propaganda" if we only want an echo chamber instead of journalism in which the exchange of ideas takes place.

It's sad that some seem to want that here. So sad.

without being treated like a damn fool.

I don't know what you think I want, but this thread is a real shame.

They were spreading war propaganda, and Keith O. did not even blink an eye. I did not like it and I said so.

this thread is a real shame.

When interviewing someone with a contrary opinion is called "propaganda"--and effectively argues that one part of a debate is not heard on television--that really is a shame. I suppose we should only hear people with whom we agree on KO's show instead.

It's so sad indeed that people advocate this.

I understand when people kvetch about Dana Milbank....because I think he's full of shit too. But I don't think it's the program with whom I disagree; I think it's the person being interviewed.

but doesn't matter what channel it is, I don't give a hoot about the paid retired military analysts that are always there to talk about how great the Iraq war is. I don't know if KO *has* to use them or not, but it's a "do something else" segement for me.

And I also think that the majority of the show tonight, not all, was fluffy, except for the opening segment. I like Oddball, but he had a lot of celebrity crap on tonight and I can watch E channel if that's what I want. Or hell, Billy Bush.

I believe that Keith did not have a choice but to use him. Sad isn't it? I remember the guy jumping for joy during shock and awful. :(

It is called propaganda.

I don't care who did it, Countdown or Hardball, it was obvious insincere propaganda....paid for by MSNBC.

God, how fucking horrible is that??

He is an NBC military analyst. They have to drag him out sometimes. I don't think Keith had a lot to say on this this time. I bet he won't be back on Countdown for a long time.

Keith occasionally complains about segment his producers force him to do. I don't think he could say so but this was one of them.

--IMM

It is really bothering me a lot, because I love the show. It is changing.

Maybe if folks have issues with the segment, an email to KO is in order.

I did not know it was unacceptable. I am not sure what is going on here, but I have a right to say I don't like a segment. It is one of my favorite shows, and it did not occur to me this would happen. But now that it has, I won't apologize.

an explanation from Keith on his blog if enough of us email him and ask what gives with the wingnut segment.

That's all. Otherwise I was taking a neutral stance.

And God knows I do hate it when someone is considered above criticism. No one should be considered that.

Can't disagree there.

The guest did seem a bit pathetic.

--IMM

I forgot which shows I can't say something about.

When some of us criticize the chair of the DNC.

Well, you brought it up not me.

I just pointed out that the show used propaganda.

If you want to go after me, go for it.. I have already been called paranoid in this thread, and in 3 others here.

Go Zomby Go Zomby....GO

possible to beat the insurgency. I believe is veiled suggestion is correct. There is no other way to beat a people fighting for their own land and nation. Isn't that what we did to the Native Americans?

MSNBC used propaganda on us.

If this is your touchstone for propaganda I can't think of one media outlet that you can watch or read.

Make me a list of which shows not to ever be critical of, and I will print it off.

Boy, I really goofed, didn't I? I have been called honey and paranoid in the same thread.

Go ahead. I am getting quite used to it. I should not even be surprised anymore.

Yes I have worn those same shoes and god the pain. I'm surprised I'm still alive. I have found that a foot massage and an adult beverage helps me keep things in perspective.

I did not think there was a side to giving an opinion on a propaganda piece on one of my favorite shows. I really was stunned at the segment, and I did not expect this thread to turn into a pissing contest.

Bottom line, it was a pumping up Joe Lieberman...and pushing war propaganda. I did not expect to see that on Countdown.

If you are on my side, that is fine. I don't know what happened in the thread, but it is weird.

folks are stressed out and cabin fever has hit some of us BIG time.
For some reason this thread reminded me of this e-mail that gets passed around this time of year.

FROM: Patty Lewis, Head of HR
TO: All Employees
DATE: October 01, 2005
RE: Christmas Party

I'm happy to inform you that the office Christmas Party will take place on December 23, starting at noon in the private function room at the Grill House. There will be a cash bar and plenty of drinks! We'll have a small band playing traditional carols...feel free to sing along. And don't be surprised if the Chief shows up dressed as Santa Claus!

A Christmas tree will be lit at 1:00pm. Exchange of gifts among employees can be done at that time; however, no gift should be over £5 to make the giving of gifts easy for everyone's pockets. This gathering is only for Chester House! The Chief will make a special announcement at that time!

Merry Christmas to you and your family.

Patty

******************************

FROM: Patty Lewis, Head of HR
TO: All Employees
DATE: October 02, 2005
RE: Holiday Party

In no way was yesterday's memo intended to exclude our Jewish employees. We recognise that Chanukah is an important holiday, which often coincides with Christmas. However, from now on we're calling it our "Holiday Party." The same policy applies to any other employees who are not Christians or those still celebrating Reconciliation Day. There will be no Christmas tree present. No Christmas carols sung. We will have other types of music for your enjoyment.

Happy now?

Happy Holidays to you and your family.

Patty

******************************

FROM: Patty Lewis, Head of HR
TO: All Employees
DATE: October 03, 2005
RE: Holiday Party

Regarding the note I received from a member of Alcoholics Anonymous requesting a non-drinking table. You didn't sign your name. I'm happy to accommodate this request, but if I put a sign on a table that reads, "AA Only"; you wouldn't be anonymous anymore. How am I supposed to handle this? Somebody?

Forget about the gifts exchange, no gifts exchange are allowed since the union members feel that £5 is too much money and executives believe £5 is a little chintzy. NO GIFTS EXCHANGE WILL BE ALLOWED.

Patty

******************************

FROM: Patty Lewis, Head of HR
To: All Employees
DATE: October 04, 2005
RE: Holiday Party

What a diverse group we are! I had no idea about the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which forbids eating and drinking during daylight hours. There goes the party! Seriously, we can appreciate how a luncheon at this time of year does not accommodate our Muslim employees' beliefs. Perhaps the Grill House can hold off on serving your meal until the end of the party - or else package everything for you to take it home in little foil doggy baggy. Will that work?

Meanwhile, I've arranged for members of Weight Watchers to sit farthest from the dessert buffet and pregnant women will get the table closest to the restrooms. Gays are allowed to sit with each other. Lesbians do not have to sit with Gay men, each will have their own table. Yes, there will be flower arrangement for the Gay men's table. To the person asking permission to cross dress, yes, this is allowed.

We will have booster seats for short people. Low-fat food will be available for those on a diet. We cannot control the salt used in the food we suggest for those people with high blood pressure to taste first. There will be fresh fruits as dessert for Diabetics, the restaurant cannot supply "No Sugar" desserts. Sorry!

Did I miss anything?!?!?

Patty

******************************

FROM: Patty Lewis, Head of HR
TO: All F****** Employees
DATE: October 05, 2005
RE: The F****** Holiday Party

Vegetarian pr**ks - I've had it with you people!!! We're going to keep this party at the Grill House whether you like it or not, so you can sit quietly at the table furthest from the "grill of death," as you so quaintly put it, and you'll get your ******* salad bar, including organic tomatoes.

But you know, tomatoes have feelings, too. They scream when you slice them. I've heard them scream. I'm hearing them scream right NOW! I hope you all have a rotten holiday! Drive drunk and die,

The B**** from H***!!!!!!!!

******************************

FROM: Joan Bishop, Acting Head of HR
DATE: October 06, 2005
RE: Patty Lewis and Holiday Party

I'm sure I speak for all of us in wishing Patty Lewis a speedy recovery and I'll continue to forward your cards to her. In the meantime, management has decided to cancel our Holiday Party and give everyone the afternoon of the 23rd off with full pay.

Happy Holidays!

and for Bush to get sent to the Hague. Great joke!

Sorry.

To Be Perfect Any Time, Any Where, All the Time, For Any Reason. Thank God. Thank God In a Stable Reality We Don't Have To Be 100% PERFECT, ALWAYS. Thank you for that Lord, Thank you.

:eyes:

Which is slowly changing, and deserves scrutiny. Unbelievable.

soooooo not straight ya know? They are reallllly letting that show go. Like, ya know I'm gonna write them a letter.

:eyes:

I said anything about The Daily Show, which I also love. I guess I'd have to run for cover. I don't intend to, but what if?

That military guy was pushing war lies and propaganda, and he was freely allowed to do so.

Or everyone will be waiting with bated breath to see if "it" happens.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I stand by what I did say,though. I make no apologies for holding a show to account for having a segment that promotes Bush's view of war and doesn't question it.

I know you don't like for me to be here, but I am. I have a right to post here.

I am rather stunned at all the things you said. Like that Olbermann carried water for neocons. I did not say it, butyes, tonight he did...if you call Lieberman that.

I am sorry, but your post is not fair. So I have been called paranoid in this thread already. Find a synonym.

Countdown carries water for Lieberman. You said that - it's in your thread title, so why bother to be disingenuous when it's there for the whole world to see? You think being misleading about the intent of your original post is helping your case?

If Lieberman's POV = Bush's, doesn't that make him a neocon in your book? Yes?

Ah, and of course - the obligatory allusion that I am trying to stifle your freedom to post here. "I know you don't like for me to be here." Really? So I suppose I'm persecuting you, right now, by posting this rebuttal. You do realize you do this to everyone who dares to disagree with you in any thread? Anyone who doesn't see eye to eye with you and give you a big ol' amen? You accuse them of stifling you and not wanting you to speak.

You have every right to be here and speak. But guess what? I have a right to call you on your posts if I don't agree. Ain't freedom of speech amazing? It's a two way street. Imagine that. Let me know when you realize that freedom of speech also applies to people who don't agree with you. Maybe you could actually carry on a real debate without taking mock offense at every rebuttal and playing the victim. Until then, well, you're just going to have to keep feeling persecuted every time someone deigns to disagree with you.

I am not pleased at having this happen so much. I never do this to you, and I won't. But from here on out, I will stand up for myself when you post things to hurt me.

You never have any actual argument, so you resort to non sequitors and vague platitudes, usually congratulating yourself for handling your ill treatment so well. More of the same from you, in other words. :boring:

Take a trip. A long one.
:D

.

I don't see anything wrong my criticism. It was fair and to the point.

I stand by what I said. If the criticisms continue, I will still stand by what I said.



That Jacobs said this was the only good thing he had heard was very hard to hear.

I stand by what I said.

That none of the words matter. That was as far as the analyst, not Olbermann or Countdown, "carried water" for george.

The analyst had some interesting things to say about the role of the military in Iraq, what victory might mean "to the Bush administration," and other things.

The transcript will make this clear when it comes out tomorrow.

is sometimes like watching a tennis game played with tomatoes.

I think it was wrong to give Lieberman's view such credibility. It is saying we are putting our country in danger for criticizing Bush.



I stand by what I said. Let the others say what they have to say.

Lieberman is saying we put our country at peril for criticizing Bush. Olbermann let him say it, did not question, and I have a right to criticize.

I wouldn't let Liberman give me a ride if I was out on the desert dying of thirst and vultures were all around me doing a happy dance.

Watching threads like this is filling me with wonderment like how the hell did it happen?

No, I agree with you. Sorry if it came across that way. I thought what Lieberman said was outrageous, and it hurt that Olbermann let Jacobs say it without questioning.

:hi:

That is what Lieberman said. It was wrong. It should have been questioned.

:popcorn:

?

:)

first time some of his coverage bugged me.

He HAD to know what Jacobs was all about, so I was a bit put off myself! Very very few of these so called "military" analysts are going to De-Militarize!!

I posted about a month ago at a Clark "special" about how I was always a bit leery regarding military types. I was brought up as an Army Brat and there's a certain "mentality" or "mode" that goes along with the game.

Now before I get jumped about Clark, I did say I wasn't against him, I just wasn't really "big" for him because of this. I realize not all military types are the same, my father was superb and didn't always play the "gung-ho" thing.... BUT he was military and it is a "way of life!" My father initiated me into politics and was a die hard Democrat... but he was military.

I'm sure as a "brat" my reactions to certain things were skewed to some extent, especially since I wasn't the one IN THE ARMY! But you ARE "in the Army" just the same!

Nuff said... I understand what madfloridian is trying to convey though.