Get rid of the Air Marshal Program?

I believe today will be a giant step BACKWARDS for the Air Marshal program. We can attempt to placate ourselves with the thought that they are there to protect us...but it's the deadly trigger finger that's going to eventually sink in as troublesome in the back of the minds of way too many Americans. It will practically affect how we feel about flying and how we might eventually participate in any terrorist encounter while flying. How we participate or not IS a huge issue.

The Air Marshal incident scares the hell out of me. These guys are sitting there, day after day, week after week, month after month...and along comes a scenario. The training obviously emphasizes the use of deadly force...and they're ready and anxious to commit. I've seen a number of training films tonite on TV. They seem to stress high intensity reaction and shooting in the cabin compartment. Somehow...someone came up with the general training theory that instantaneous reaction is the big priority...most likely for the specific "911 type scenario"....with the expressed purpose to kill...and kill quickly. Problem is...you could find yourself in the middle of this insane enviroment....and it may not exactly follow the "book" or the "911 scenario".

Here's the problem....there are obviously many possible scenarios where "hair trigger" deadly force won't mix with a situation where the distinction between passengers and terrorists might not be blurred. Who's not "following orders"? Who's the ones who are terrorists? Who are making terroristic moves? Since the use of deadly force can be triggered by "not following orders" followed by making an terrorist threat....then you have the potential for a can of worms....ESPECIALLY WHEN THE PUBLIC ISN'T TRAINED TO KNOW WHAT TO DO!!!!!

IS THERE A POTENTIAL CONFLICT HERE?

Suppose you're on a plane...there is a suspected terrorist situation unfolding...but it's not so clear how it started or who started it. A plane layout inherently means a large number of people will not get a proper perspective. Someone starts making threatening moves in your vicinity...people become uneasy....you see people pushing and shoving...it's hard to see in the plane exactly who's doing what to whom.... then YOU participate (possibly with others) to try and restrain a person that APPEARS to be a terrorist. Meanwhile....unknown to you an Air Marshall comes into the picture...but...are you sure that he's an Air Marshall and is he sure that YOU AREN'T a terrorist???

a. How will an Air Marshall that has a trigger finger to kill know who to start shooting if he didn't see "who did what to who" right from the beginning? Will a terrorist be capable of playing into the dilemma of "Air Marshall" vs. passengers?

b. Does it worry you at all that these guys will KILL anyone who is threatening or who may not (in the course of any high intensity situation) be completely tuned in to the specific commands they are yelling? Who is the one who is in authority and will you listen to someone yelling at you when you think you're being threatened?

c. How would you be assured that this is an offical Air Marshal (being in plain clothes)....and in such a high intensity situation....would you hesitate......or will you risk appearing "terroristic" in your split second of indecisiveness?

Of course this scenario could be turned inside out and argued...but here's the most important point....

....would YOU....

Ever consider participating in ANY anti-terrorist action while traveling on a plane in the future?....or will there be a little bird inside that says....no way...can't risk it.

Are you under the impression that you should or shouldn't participate in an encounter? You've had no training, no real understanding of what the Air Marshalls might ask you to do in any particular scenario...so how will you react?

I know one of the greatest rules of thumb established after 911 was the belief that Americans could rally against any plane hijacking and stop it in its tracks. In fact...perhaps the downing of the last hijacked plane in PA gave more of an anti-terrorist shield than ANYTHING actually done since.

You may not want to make the connection now...but you can bet your ass...this Air Marshal incident could be advertised as good news...but in the end its gonna culminate in some real bad news....

I see a huge subliminal cloud falling over America that is going to settle in and suggest to a huge number of people....

hmmmm...stay out of it. An uncertainty....a FEAR that they won't forget....just enough to hesitate...avoid the involvement.

Instead of the Air Marshal program (aside from the obvious fix of prying some bucks to pay for 100% screening)...we'd do better to have a little 10 minute film at the beginning of each flight that instructs passengers to join together to subdue ANYONE who attempts to take control of the plane.

A percieved imminent threat was identified and neutralized. That's what Air Marshalls are SUPPOSED to do. The program isn't at fault here, somebody screaming that they had a bomb is.

Another thing -- the FAMs have been on thousands and thousands of flights and this is the first and only time than any of them have shot anybody. Hardly a "trigger-happy" bunch, I should say...

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Can you discuss this intelligently or are you just going to insult everybody who disagrees with you?

Now answer my questions.

Sounds real nice on the surface...guy threatens to blow up plane...but is taken out.

Nice to know these FAM are doing their job.

Just think a bit deeper.
There's too many things that don't fit. You don't run around with your bomb like a madman. The typical scenario is to demand something or effect a plan to take control of the plane.

Their training just didn't seem to include what you do when a guy acts nuts.
This is "by the book"
Don't make me laugh.

You said:

"Just think a bit deeper.
There's too many things that don't fit. You don't run around with your bomb like a madman. The typical scenario is to demand something or effect a plan to take control of the plane."

As if their is a typical way a suicide bomber is going to act????? What if the guy got scared???? What if he was OFF HIS MEDS and wanted to take out a bunch of people like the Columbine Kids? What if, what if, what if???? The bottom line is the Marshall has all the people in the vicinity to PROTECT!!! GET IT???

Yes it was by the Book! EXACTLY!


The guy is wearing a back pack on his chest screaming bomb. You have all the people in the Airport to protect and you are going to fall back on some things that may or may not add up as he fails to listen to your commands and reaches into his back pack?????


So then what if the guy who perhaps got scared and ran out of the Airplane has a moment of reflection and blows up everyone in that wing of the Airport?

The Air Marshall doesn't have time to go over every ridiculous argument we have seen on DU tonight. He has one or two seconds to make a decision and act which is his responsibility.

The training doesn't have time to go over these things?
We've had how many years to prepare for what ifs?

Yes it was by the book.
And what is the book.
I've watched enough of the training films...I get it.
Shoot and ask questions later.

Not one shot.
That might just allow the person to "pull the trigger" on their make believe bomb.

Not two shots....6 shots (or more) till the person is oblitherated.

Your imagination is extremely thin.
The problem is that hair trigger Air Marshals and passengers don't mix.
They were extremely lucky in this case that the guy was nuts and made himself an extremely easy target. Moreover...he went OUTSIDE the plane to make it easy to wack him.

If he had ranted back and forth within the aisles....do you suppose they would have unloaded 6 shots or more within the compartment?

toward the Air Marshall's and reaching into his bag. The Air Marshall's had only one or two seconds to make a decision and when his hand starts going into the bag 99 out of 100 Air Marshall's or police are going to shoot. Why is that so hard for you to understand???? This is a no brainier. Thats right they DIDN'T have time to go over all your wonderful ideas. When you have one second to react you have to react.

You are making things up that don't have anything to do with what happened. Please stick with the facts of this case.

As far as him being in the plane and reaching toward the bag, he would most certainly have been shot then as well. :eyes:


Look, this guy wanted to be shot. He was off his meds and did everything in his power to get shot. You don't reach inside a bag that you say has a bomb if you don't want to get shot.

"He was told to get down over and over and he started advancing
toward the Air Marshall's and reaching into his bag. The Air Marshall's had only one or two seconds to make a decision and when his hand starts going into the bag."

The reason I am asking is because all the witnesses so far have said that the man was ordered to leave the plane and he did so. Some have even said he left his bag on the plane. Other have said he never said anything about a bomb. He was shot outside the plane!

As matter of fact, not one civilian witness has said that the man said anything about a bomb.

The first mentioning of a bomb, was from an "unnamed senior official".

Why would someone explaining a shooting, be unnamed?

over and over and over on Air America. They even played the voices of witnesses who were their.

I quote: Argote said Alpizar got up from his seat and ran toward the plane's door, with his wife yelling in Spanish.

"Officers told him to stop and he said no," the teen said. "He was running like a crazy man."

Where did you get your information because I have not heard ANYTHING even remotely close to what you just wrote.

As far as the officer saying he said he had a bomb being unnamed????

I quote:

Before he ran off the plane he "uttered threatening words that included a sentence to the effect that he had a bomb," said James E. Bauer, agent in charge of the Federal Air Marshal Service field office in Miami.http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20051207144209990016

Department of Homeland Security officials said Alpizar ignored two air marshals' orders to get down on the ground and he appeared to be reaching into his bag when one of the marshals fired.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/12/08/marshal_kills_passenger_at_miami_airport/

I don't buy the story that the threshold of pain to use deadly force was due to the poor guy running OFF the plane and then apparently reaching into his bag just after immediately entering into the causeway..... that suddenly just at that very moment....he did the unspeakable....well he THREATENED TO REACH INTO THE BAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH.
IF YOU CAN'T SMELL A RAT IN THAT STORY.....

#1 - It doesn't make sense that this crazy would be incoherent, not listen to orders....but then suddenly run off the plane and THEN determine for sudden very illogical reasons that THIS was the very strategic moment to really threaten the FAMs....and then reach down as if to threaten that he'll actually detonate the bomb.

Ah DUH....nice story by the FAM.

#2 - The FAM had an ongoing mindset to take his shot when he got a good shot. It's very difficult to justify pulling 6 shots off in the cabin area. The thought was probably central in his thinking....all I have to do is get a good shot. When the guy ran out on the causeway...well the opportunity presented itself.

Why don't we just stick to what happened?

If somebody just causes a disturbance, they stop the disturbance (that's why they also carry handcuffs).

If somebody screams that they have a bomb, however, the situation has moved beyond "disturbance".

In my book....SCREAMING that you have a bomb kind of means the person is nuts and has to be subdued. The terrorist scenario we have seen all too many times simply goes about its business...it doesn't scream and yell...run up and down aisles...

But do you suppose this is the only scenario the Marshals have to deal with?
What about the trained terrorists that have a plan to expose the Marshals and take them out.

Appears to me there's probably 2, that's what's been advertised.
So a half dozen terrorists throughout the plane can stage a scene....start the all out deadly assault on that person....then take out the two (or one) Marshals.

That's exactly why I believe it is up to the entire passenger section to participate in beating down any attempt to take over the plane.

And anyway....the doors have FINALLY been secured....so any attempt to use this as a means to get to the pilots is MUCH less.

So....it appears to me is all you have to do is 100% screening of carry on....and you don't have these ridiculous deadly situations to deal with.

Sure perhaps they thought he was pulling a fast one but when he started reaching into the bag the Air Marshall's absolutely had to shoot! They had no time to go over all your wonderful ideas.

Why do you fail to mention the guy was failing to get down as he was told and was reaching into a bag he said had a bomb in it when he was shot??????? You conveniently fail to bring that part up over and over and attempt to change the subject. I guess when you know you are losing you change the subject like most politicians.

As far as everything else you brought up. Well, lets judge the Air Marshall's on how they perform when that kind of thing actually happens for christ sake. You don't know what will happen in those situations. You are just trying to change the subject. The Air Marshall's are trained on EVERYTHING you suggested up by the best in their field. As if they haven't thought of everything you brought up??? :eyes:

Feed from the trough.

:shrug:

It's kind of like having a gun in your house....thinking you'll be so much safer.

But truth is...you're untrained...and you haven't imagined all the scenarios that might unfold. When do you actually shoot to kill?

Statistically...you're better with a dog.

The people on board, who are screened effectively...and who can subdue any small terrorist threat....are the dog.

The Air Marshalls are the loaded gun that's not going to work when it really happens.

Worked exactly as it was supposed to, in fact. Air Marshalls were confronted with an out-of-control man screaming that he had a bomb and they neutralized the threat. That's what they're THERE FOR.

Had the man actually had a bomb (and they had no way of knowing he didn't) none of this would be controversial.

We managed to gun down a probably mentally disturbed person who WAS NOT a terrorist bomber.

Hmmm, maybe we should look at the marshals' training. Ya think?

The real lesson is: Don't scream about bombs and blowing people up when you are in an airport and you won't get shot.

It's really simple.

Please, let's all get the facts straight, or at least comment on what we know. Not what we think happened.

Before he ran off the plane he "uttered threatening words that included a sentence to the effect that he had a bomb," said James E. Bauer, agent in charge of the Federal Air Marshal Service field office in Miami.


http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20051207144209990016

Witnesses and the like. What makes you think he didn't?

they are supposed to neutalize ACTUAL imminent threats, by killing them if necessary.

the fact that the guy turned out NOT to be an actual threat is compelling proof that, at a minimum, the system could be improved. yes, mistakes cannot be 100% prevented, especially in the heat of the moment. but they should be minimized and delusional people freaking out about an imagined bomb is a VERY plausible scenario, and in fact is MARKEDLY more common than actual terrorist acts.

i don't know enough of the details, be merely screaming 'bomb' and running from a plane is (a) consistent with being delusional and (b) consistent with being completely innocent and running away from a bomb you happened to notice and (c) NOT particularly consistent with being a terrorist (who is more likely to keep quiet about a bomb and/or deploy it at altitude and/or not be running AWAY from the plane and (d) STILL probably not the wise thing to do as this is probably the best guy to help identify and/or diffuse any bomb, not to mention that killing him may make setting off the bomb MORE likely.

about a bomb.

Not one witness has said the man claimed to have a bomb.

Thank you for that post!!

:shrug:

Saw that in several reports, that they "broke cover."

Shouldn't they be easily identifiable to passengers? If you're serious about thwarting terror attacks on planes, why not use the "police" presence as a deterrent?

...ust a thought...

Since when?

I can't believe some people are even thinking about doing away with the air marshal program. Jesus, guys....you DO know that if you don't claim to have a bomb and act like a crazy-ass motherfucker on a plane, you SHOULD be okay, right?

Anyhow, thanks for defending sanity on this thread, Mercutio. :thumbsup:

With all the guns that get on board because we don't screen for carry on guns.

Same point.

Additionally, CanuckAmok's point is probably even more relevant. Air Marshalls aren't on every plane. If they were in uniform, their ansence would be easily noticed.

If they were easily identifiable, their absence would also be easily identifiable.

Might as well arm the flight attendants then. If our air security is so lax that a passenger can exit an AA flight in Miami from Quito, Ecuador, clear U.S. fucking Customs, then board yet another flight to Orlando, all the while carrying a bomb in his backpack - then we should shut down the airlines.

My elderly, mostly harmless mom boarded a flight to Toronto last month with a (absolutely prohibited) pair of knitting needles in her carry-on luggage. She only found out they were verboten when one of the FAs told her, about half-way through the flight.

The point being, if she absentmindedly "smuggled" those on board, imagine what can get aboard if someone intends to smuggle something.

Yes of course.

The only way you would really know to respect them and do exactly what they tell you what to do in a horrible confused split second scenario is if they advertise their presence AND whereabouts right up front.

Glad you made that point and it fits in completely with what I'm saying.
The confusion between FAM and passengers back and forth is potentially ridiculous. The training actually seems to AVOID this issue. Simply mow people down and ask questions later.

If you have to keep the program...train the passengers ever time they get on board with exactly what they will be asked to do by the FAM....

Err....so we don't freekin shoot you 6 times.

So if this doesn't make sense...exactly what ARE they trying to accomplish by undercover FAM...

HMMMMMM>>>>>>>>>PERHAPS SAVE MONEY???????????????????
AH YES....AND SO WE GET BACK TO THE SAME OLD PROBLEM DON'T WE....
INABILITY TO PAY FOR EFFECTIVE SCREENING OR OUR GENERAL SECURITY IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1) Air Marshalls are undercover because they're not on every flight and the absence from certain flights would be easily noticed if they were all in uniform.

2) Air Marshalls don't qualify as "trigger-happy" under any sane person's definition. Since 9/11 this is the FIRST time they've shot anybody...YEARS of random incidents they dealt with and they've never shot anybody before this.

I don't know about you but if I saw a guy wearing a back pack on his chest claiming to have a bomb and reaching into the backpack I would shoot too.

You just qualified to be a FAM and the pay is pretty good.
Long hours flying though...
Not a lot of action.
It can be a bit unnerving.

SO trigger-happy, in fact, that they've shot exactly NOBODY before this incident.

:eyes:

The REAL terrorists wouldn't see this type of methodology as working too well...don't you think?

Not something along the lines of what they did in 911...don't you think?

Regarding crazy people.
Well I guess we really don't have that many incidents of them as you've pointed out...but we should rest well assured that we have Air Marshals to take them out real quick...so that makes me feel better.

Listen carefully....we've been REAL REAL REAL lucky so far...especially since we don't have 100% baggage check......and I believe it's because of the downing of the plane in PA that the terrorists have to think about how an ENTIRE plane might turn against them.

That's off the table now because of this incident....because the public has just got a big training lesson...better stay the f*ck out of it.

Had their actually been a bomb and he set it off, you would be responsible for hundreds of peoples death.

WHEN HE WAS SHOT?

He was ordered to leave and did so. He was shot OUTSIDE THE PLANE!

Even if he did have a bomb and it went of, it is doubtful it would have killed anyone besides himself. Remember the guy had to go through several airport screenings, so the size of the bomb (if any) is limited.

It's not like he was a carrying suicide belt or anything like that.

Instead, our air marshals managed to kill a man who was probably mentally ill, but definitely NOT a terrorist bomber.

I mean, this is a fuck-up, isn't it? If they were following procedure and ended up with this result, maybe the procedures need reexamining. Let's look at their training.

personally, i'd like to have a clue about what the triggering mechanism was, or the nature of the bomb before possibly setting it off.
personally, i'd like to know if the guy was alone or if there was another terrorist.
personally, i'd like to know if the guy had a second bomb.

but that's just me, i try to assess a situation before taking action that's sure to kill one and possibly kill and main many.

because according to all the experts in this area the two men followed protocol perfectly. Both also shot at the same time.

killing a US citizen who was NOT a terrorist bomber, but apparently deranged, then, yeah, somebody should take over the training of the marshals.

Where did you ever read that?

This is the first time I have heard that.

According to passengers on the plane (interviewed on CNN this morning) the man LEFT his back on the plane!

Here is what the Boston Globe says about his back pack:

Department of Homeland Security officials said Alpizar ignored two air marshals' orders to get down on the ground and he appeared to be reaching into his bag when one of the marshals fired.

a ticket agent at DCA (National Airport) during the 1970s. We had Air Marshalls back then, and they were the most useless, arrogant, assholes it's ever been my privilege to know. I doubt anything has changed. As soon as I heard this story, I knew that some idiot Marshall had done exactly the wrong thing, had gone off and killed an entirely innocent person.

And don't start thinking that people are getting on multiple flights carrying bombs, and yes, they do screen for guns, although apparently they don't catch all of them.

I do not feel the least bit safe knowing that armed Air Marshalls are on airplanes, or that pilots or flight attendants are armed. An incident like this was just waiting to happen.

and actually they started in the states having them on planes in the early 70's. 71?---the purpose then was to cut down on the weekly hijacking schedule from DC and Miami to Havana.

were useless pieces of excrement 30 something years ago, and they still are. Not a single hijacking was prevented by the air marshalls of that era, and they aren't preventing anything in this era.

Shoot first and ask questions later is not a good anti-terrorism policy. Every person who thinks that killing this poor, mentally ill man makes us safer is wrong.

I used to love flying, back when there was reasonable room between rows (I'm only 5'2" and I think there's not enough room. No need to discuss my weight, because I'd like to lose a few pounds, but I'm significantly under 200 pounds and I often feel cramped in a coach seat) and there were hot meals served and first class service really was first class. Now I hate it. The hassles are hardly worth it, even when I have to travel a long distance. I drive places I used to fly to before because it can be faster. I have no patience with not being allowed to bring nail clippers or embroidery scissors on board, I don't think having some testosterone poisoned trigger happy Air Marshall on the plane actually protects me in any way.

I used to daydream of being rich enough to always fly first class. Now I daydream of being rich enough to always fly on charters, so as to avoid the b.s. of security.

A false sensibility to be sure...

But in this case....a false sense of security.

Let it ring from sea to shining sea.
America has got its head up it's collective ass if it thinks it's safer.

It's essentially the Bush Doctrine.
A false sense of security.

And people have largely bought into it.

Show force...
But don't use logic.....

Cheat on how to make people safe....
And spend the money on some other useless program or tax break....

Meanwhile...
Pat yourself on the back that you're tough...
That you know what's going on...
That you're on the ball.

The bottom line....
The REAL terrorists planning the next whatever have to be laughing like crazy about how stupid we are.

there security, does not matter?

Look,I don't want a hijacked airliner
crashing into my house.

If you fly, you take certain risks.

If you act like a nut at an airport,
you get what you get.

No terrorist would get on that flight.

Any lame brain terrorist can now conceive of a plan to take them out AND use their weapons now.

You simply stage a wacko situation like what just happened.
The marshals reveal themselves as wanting to plug the wacko.
Since the protocol is plugging the guy with guns, then this takes their attention to that guy and with their weapons drawn.

That guy moves into position so that his co-terrorists can grab the Marshal's weapon....and if the wacko actor takes the fall...hey the terrorists don't mind losing people like that.

They now have much more probability of success jumping the marshal or two now.

People won't participate in helping the marshals now because of the risk of getting shot.

The use of deadly force ON BOARD and taking people out like this with guns is thus a wacko situation that leads to many many problems.

Whoever conceived of this wasn't thinking.
You'd be better off simply gasing the entire compartment.

Most times there are only one if any on a flight.

If five or six terrorists are on a flight they can stage an incident to expose the air marshall and then get his gun.

I know it is something the air marshalls are trained to try to see coming, but I'm sure it's a real threat.

Also, some scouting by the terrorists could easily pick out the air marshall or potential air marshalls head of time and attack them first.

I think the passengrs might do better fighting it out with the terrorists. It's a tough call, but the air marshall program is incredibly expensive.

And the results don't look too good.

It's a victory for Bushco and their convincing Americans they are safe USING CHEAP TAUDRY MAGNUM FORCE TACTICS.

They didn't fix the doors right away...that would have cost 5B. Better to bail out the airlines to the tune of 15B.

Still no 100% baggage check and implementation of other technologies that work...but would cost money.

The things that really make us safe aren't there.

So watch the news proclaim...they did their job...it was to the book.

The "book" is just another chapter and verse out of Bushco, right after the chapter that discusses how to keep the entire public off guard by pressing the threat of war down their throats....this chapter reads....."HOW TO CREATE A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY"

Yesterday was a triumph for Bushco.
And all it was about was wacking a poor nutcase.

No kidding!

This John Wayne shoot em up attitude scares the fuck out of me way more than the "terrorists" that we are STILL fighting 4 years after their little bitty pieces dried up and blew away.

before I judge. But let's say the doors were fixed, there's 100% baggage screening and implementation of technologies that work. Someone on a plane starts to act erratically and says he has a bomb. Do the FAM or passengers and crew think, "Impossible" and ignore the threat. My point is we will never be 100% safe. Also, a mentally ill person is capable of performing a violent act.

What do you do?

But think about what you're asking.
We're talking about the Timothy McVies now aren't we.....not the terrorists....do you see the point?

Does the very unlikely scenario of this isoloted wacko type warrant the "911 style" response?

I would argue logically...

1. The 911 style doesn't apply because it just doesn't work. Implement the 100% screening...coupled with training on each and every flight that the entire passenger section work together to subdue any attempt to take the plane.

2. For the nut cases...yes anything is possible...but at the very least...don't train FAM to take them out "911 style" in the compartment.

Actually in this case I have asked..."what if the guy didn't run off the plane and into the runway?"

Sure the FAM are licking their chops about the fact that he ran off so that it was that much easier to blow his brains out.

But what about the 6 shots within the cabin....and 2 shots cripple another 2 passengers for life.

Is that the response you want in the "wacko" scenario?

scenarios....Of course, shooting someone inside the cabin would be the least desirable option, but I can think of possible situations when that would be the only course of action. If the plane is in the air, where should the FAM "take them out".

We absolutely need to have 100% screening and training. The fact is, it is possible that some (passengers and/or crew) would die while attempting to subdue the terrorist attempting to take the plane. They would be considered heroes for saving the lives of others. Having FAM present would make it a hell of a lot easier to stop the "wacko".

Timothy McVey was a terrorist, IMO.

With the exception of my wife...I only talked to one person today out of about 20 that thought the use of deadly force was unjustified.

That person is an informed, intelligent, and sensitive person....and I breathed quite a sigh of relief when I began to ask him ....and before I could even frame the first thought....he shook his head as if to say....what do you expect....look at what we're dealing with....

There's nothing to celebrate in any of this.
There's not a god dam thing logical about any of this.
There's only a warped rationalization of the dysfunctional environment that is growing around us like cancer.

I took note of the demeanor and attitude of several I would not have expected to jump so easily on the bandwagon.

And I reached an inescapable conclusion....

Those 2 insidious forces have reared their ugly head again...
ARROGANCE and
IGNORANCE

Funny. When we're given an opportunity to think.
We're finding more and more reasons to turn away.

It's a dark cloud that's slowly moving over this country....
The sensitivity to perceive and the guts to question is slowly exiting the American landscape.

Americans are learning to enjoy their misery.
In fact...they're making a science out of it.

Just as the cloud of bad business ethics has encroached into our thinking to the point that we can't even grasp the notion of fairness in the workplace...or even in the home for that matter...

Arrogance and ignorance....the rampant cutthroat stab em in the back selfishness that we are becoming to believe is a necessity for existence....is creating dysfunctional thought processes....as well as dysfunctional relationships....while creating lifeless, reactionary mechanisms.... where real souls used to reside.

Yes...America used to have a soul.
It's now turning into an arrogant, ignorant, great thick skinned sh*t head attitude.....

In short....
We're turning into a country of AS$Holes.
And we'd be the last ones to admit it.

Flight reports by the Federal Air Marshal Service show that federal agents were on less than 10 percent of the nation's flights in December, a number several air marshals say was inflated to make it appear to Congress that commercial air travel is better protected than it is.

"The numbers reported to headquarters come back higher than originally reported and are sometimes upwards of double the number of what is actually flown," an air marshal said. "Everyone knows they are padding the numbers."

FAMS flight reports for December, obtained by The Washington Times, show air marshals were on about 9.4 percent of the nearly 30,800 daily domestic and international flights.

But the marshals say that figure is impossible, because more flights are reported as having armed agents aboard than the service's 21 field offices can deploy.

...

"The actual flight numbers are artificially high to give a perception that the aviation transportation system is actually better protected by air marshals than what it is. But we're suffering from shortfalls in manpower because of mass exodus of marshals in the last two years," the first marshal said.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20050303-123754-2141r.htm


After the Miami incident, we all feel a bit safer, don't we?






:sarcasm:

Some of the comments here digust me. Unfortunately, I can't tell you much more, and I know "more" than most of you "seem" to know. It will all come out in a full report soon enough. So STFU til then, okay?

Edit: Add :rant:

and don't heavily propagandize the marshals.

If someone makes a threat and is non compliant, they become a threat to everyone. If he did have a bomb he could have killed innocent people like you or I because the FAMs did not act. 6 shots seem perfectly normal, especially since there were two officers, and officers normally shoot in the "failure drill" pattern. The system worked, and I bet you any officer would shoot at that point to protect the bystanders (far greater in number).

He claimed to have a bomb. What is the differance between a percieved threat and an imminent threat? Hingsight is the only answer, and unfortunatley the FAMs are not afforded the luxury of time travel.

saying he claimed to have a bomb, that is not a government source?

Because so far, all the civilians have said he never mentioned anything about a bomb.

should be under constant review for possible improvement.

The FAMs probably did what they were trained to do. I send my sympathy and prayers to the Marshals and their loved ones.

There was no bomb. A mentally ill man is dead, shot in front of his wife. I send my sympathy and prayers to his family as well.

The system failed.

In fact, I'd be willing to pay 20 bucks more per flight if it meant EVERY flight would have a Marshal. JMO

You know how nice society will be then.

If this is what someone is worried about then they should lock themselves up in a padded room alone because that's the only way to truly protect oneself. There are far, far more dangers in everyday life than this scenario.